SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VIII

[Lonestar]

The NFT FFG didn't have the experience of harmless prop-driven recon planes of the "Iranians" constantly harassing him; and he also thought it was a Japanistani craft.

If the "harmless" prop-driven recon planes fly directly over surface combatants, then they are potentially not harmless. For what I hope are breathtakingly obvious reasons.

Needless to remind you that Japanistan has nuclear weapons and advanced missiles, right? It wasn't a P-3 which is a recon plane. It was a god damn bomber and you know that. I mean, come on - the USS Vincennes shot up a civilian airliner from Iran. Did Iran go to war with the USA? Nop.

No, but the OD hasn't gone to war with the NFT either, the extent of it's response has been to deploy 3 Dominion Hawk drones to Tian Jiao so that there can be one going back and forth off of the NFT coast at any given time(except during turnover, when there's 2). OICAS took measures exclude non-merchant traffic NFT commercial activity from the IC, but even that is somewhat mitigated because of a policy to reduce fishing for everyone, including OICAS member states.

The USCR's solution is to move carrier groups into the region.

The ODAF has had it's share of "exercises" in vinicity of the NFT.

(1)The Bomber was shot down to the Southwest of the F-ing continent, nowhere near the NFT.
(2)The only other "exercises" was stationing a Dominion Hawk to monitor the situation with the Rage Zombies outbreak and later on as a "poke 'em in the eye" measure following the downing of the bomber.
(3)The OD has never violated the NFT's airspace, unless we're going by the insane "Satellites are a violation of our airspace!" rules. The OD has also never made the claim that satellites, or even Silver Streak rocket planes, violate it's own airspace. We would reserve such claims for, oh, say, assholes who send T-4 drones in.

Stop harassing them. Same applies to the TXAF, TXN and ODN.

The ODN hasn't entered the waters of the F-ing continent(the Port Nike visit being cancelled after Tian Xia gave it up), and called off it's contribution to the anti-piracy taskforce there after the NFT protested the large number of folks playing in it's backyard.

[Shroom Man 777]

Apologize? Fuck NO. Enough is enough. You're the ones starting shit and trying to bully CATO Members, and you want us to apologize. Like Siege said, it's not gonna happen. The last time that this shit happened, I was willing to make concessions in the interest of avoiding Global Thermonuclear war, and now you guys go and do it again. Well fuck that.

Maybe they could rephrase it to "come to an understanding" or a "mutual agreement" of "establishing boundaries and respectful distance" or something.

But it is clear that the dicks aren't on our table, but rather on their laps. Since apparently they have a hard-on for these kinds of things.

This is exactly the kind of behavior that sickens me, the fucking higher than thou attitude of certain players towards others. If there is no respect shown to others, then they won't get any respect shown to them. I personally have had enough. How many times does the MESS think they can do shit like this, before one of us blows and pushes the big red button? Unless that is what they want...

Thinking about it, they're really not much different from Shep. Except they may be a *little* bit more subtler. But not much.

But that's what's good about Shep. At least he's honest in that he wants nuclear war and wants to eat all the little children of the brown mud people.

[Siege]

I don't give a toss about the details, I'm not apologizing and that's the end of that. Find some other way to settle the matter. Oh and also the "plane moving at a constant speed and bearing" is something you made up after the fact. As far as I'm concerned that damned bomber deliberately dove at my ship because of an asshole pilot with an Israel-complex. I'm doing you a fucking favor by agreeing to pay for the damned machine, don't make me rethink that decision. Hell if this whole peace process thing doesn't work out I might just cancel the payment, shoot at everything that infringes on my EEZ, and damn the torpedoes. If that results in thermonuclear war then so be it, this 'lets-poke-the-NFT' bullshit is not a game I'm interested in playing anyway.

[K. A. Pital]

The USCR's solution is to move carrier groups into the region.

Yes, because last time Beowulf did the same when acting about a conflict which had nothing to do with him. This conflict has more to do with the CATO than the Baerne-Costa conflict ever had to do with the fucking MESS, and Beowulf sent a taskforce with nuclear carrier, another carrier, nuclear destroyers and SSNs to boot. [re: Baerne Costa war on 7th April realtime, look for Beowulf's posts which constitute a "sane reaction" to a war he had fuck all to do with]

We're now powerful enough to react the same way. You're pissed. Deal with it. Oh, and the only thing we actually moved "into the region" were the carrier and the UCSR Fleet Flagship and commship which is required for space and missile launch tracking. The group was composed from DDGs, SSNs and other craft already present in the NFT bases.

We move two ships - powerful ships, and without doubt a show of flag - and what do we hear? "CATO THREAT!!!!!!". Yeah. Gotta tell Beowulf, I think we didn't really get high on the "MESS threat" horse when he casually moved a group of ships and subs that could annihilate a smaller nation's Navy.

We would reserve such claims for, oh, say, assholes who send T-4 drones in.

The T-4 are not drones, they are supersonic recon craft. Also, by 2017 they are all museum pieces. What are you talking about really? Who violated your airspace?

Okay, ODN is not swimming around Frequesue - that is good. The other three mentioned entities still are, I would believe. Our demands stay the same. Our carrier group is there to protect Siege's assets in case you get trigger happy, and it's not moving away until the MESS shit is moving out as well. You move your shit, we move our shit. You do nothing - we do nothing.

[DarthShady]

Maybe they could rephrase it to "come to an understanding" or a "mutual agreement" of "establishing boundaries and respectful distance" or something.

But it is clear that the dicks aren't on our table, but rather on their laps. Since apparently they have a hard-on for these kinds of things.

Well then, we'll just have to see who has a bigger hard-on. But seriously, no apology - the NFT didn't do anything wrong and they will not be painted as the wrong doers here.

Thinking about it, they're really not much different from Shep. Except they may be a *little* bit more subtler. But not much.

But that's what's good about Shep. At least he's honest in that he wants nuclear war and wants to eat all the little children of the brown mud people.

I couldn't agree more. Shep acted like a dick but he also admitted it. The MESS doesn't. They pull this kind of shit and then play all innocent and shit, blaming us. It's getting to the point, where it's fucking ridiculous.

[CmdrWilkens]

I couldn't agree more. Shep acted like a dick but he also admitted it. The MESS doesn't. They pull this kind of shit and then play all innocent and shit, blaming us. It's getting to the point, where it's fucking ridiculous.

Oh yes we're all this monolithic bloc of evil that does nothing but bully people. Never mind that no one in the MESS has ever wiped a fucking country off the map. You can call us dicks all you want but there is only one nation left on Terrra Nova which has literally wiped another from the face of the planet and they aren't part of the MESS.

Now I can't speak for Beo but you'll note that no other MESS power has sent a CVBG in response to any other situation...and the Costa situation DOES affect him directly as he has territorial holdings on the F-ing so of course it affects him. So fine go yell and scream about how we "all the time" bully folks and then sit back knowing that of the current CATO membership one nation has committed an act of genocide and another has let violent zombie-creating viruses run rampant through one of their cities. Yup we are the dickish ones here.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Now I can't speak for Beo but you'll note that no other MESS power has sent a CVBG in response to any other situation...and the Costa situation DOES affect him directly as he has territorial holdings on the F-ing so of course it affects him.

What about his territorial holdings give him excuse to dick around with a nation that is on the other side of the Frequesue continent?

So fine go yell and scream about how we "all the time" bully folks and then sit back knowing that of the current CATO membership one nation has committed an act of genocide and another has let violent zombie-creating viruses run rampant through one of their cities. Yup we are the dickish ones here.

Oh yeah, and Beowulf didn't lob a few more weapons just to make sure another country dies for good. Right... And no one profitted from the destruction of Shepistan. Right...

You guys may not be a "monolithic bloc" but your silence and reluctance to condemn your own members' actions simply state that you guys condone it. Nevermind the constant dicking around with a far smaller nation in Frequesue like school backyard bullies, which must be ALL FINE RIGHT?

[CmdrWilkens]

So fine go yell and scream about how we "all the time" bully folks and then sit back knowing that of the current CATO membership one nation has committed an act of genocide and another has let violent zombie-creating viruses run rampant through one of their cities. Yup we are the dickish ones here.

Oh yeah, and Beowulf didn't lob a few more weapons just to make sure another country dies for good. Right... And no one profitted from the destruction of Shepistan. Right...

You guys may not be a "monolithic bloc" but your silence and reluctance to condemn your own members' actions simply state that you guys condone it. Nevermind the constant dicking around with a far smaller nation in Frequesue like school backyard bullies, which must be ALL FINE RIGHT?[/quote]

- Yes the OD profited after spending a decade and billions in cleanup they have seen a tiny little uptick in GDP. Not to mention that the fallout of the attack killed off thousands of his citizens and in the ensuing troubles within what was Shepistan the loss of all maintenace has already caused huge disruptions to the existing infrastructure, its essentially STILL a wasteland with only the most critical centers of commerce and industry rebuilt. Thinking that the destruction of Shepistan was somehow a windfall for anyone is the height of folly.

- By your same measure CATO condones genocide.

- I'm wondering aside from Beo's interests in the F-ing (note that the F-ing Neutrality Pact was binding on him which means that YES the apparent attempt by Baerne to invade and re-organize the poltiics of Costa affects him) you'll note no interference in those nations. Hell I sold Seige equipment for his NFT Coast Guard, I have sold new and surplus equipment before as have Rogue and Coyote. The idea that "The MESS" is some bullying power comes about because everyone has gotten their panties in a twist over Beo asserting himself where he has a treaty right to assert himself.


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Now that I've said that I'm going to try and cool the temperature a bit: I don't pretend that we agree on any of the above, in fact half this conflict is BECAUSE we don't agree on the above. That said let me try this:

What SPECIFIC action do you feel deserve condemnation?


Why those actions?


I say this because that is what this comes down to, as I see it. Both sides feel aggrieved and I'd rather cut through the bullshit and just figure out what would make everyone happy. We may not be able to reach an accord this way but maybe its a place to start.

[Steve]

- I'm wondering aside from Beo's interests in the F-ing (note that the F-ing Neutrality Pact was binding on him which means that YES the apparent attempt by Baerne to invade and re-organize the poltiics of Costa affects him) you'll note no interference in those nations. Hell I sold Seige equipment for his NFT Coast Guard, I have sold new and surplus equipment before as have Rogue and Coyote. The idea that "The MESS" is some bullying power comes about because everyone has gotten their panties in a twist over Beo asserting himself where he has a treaty right to assert himself.

Um, Beo explicitly stated that Tian Xia did not sign the Frequesue Neutrality Pact and did not consider itself beholden to it.

I say this because that is what this comes down to, as I see it. Both sides feel aggrieved and I'd rather cut through the bullshit and just figure out what would make everyone happy. We may not be able to reach an accord this way but maybe its a place to start.

From what I see, what they want is the MESS to use internal influence to reign in the Old Dominion's attitude toward other countries instead of giving knee-jerk supportive responses or, at best, absolute silence whenever a MESS power gets unnecessarily aggressive.

It's true that three of the MESS Imperiums (Canissia, Shinra, Wilkonia) have not been aggressive or hostile to CATO, but you seem to have no problem in letting Old Dominion and Tian Xia rattle sabers (and at least Tian Xia has the excuse of Frequesuan holdings, Old Dominion seems only interested in showing the world how tough it is), and that does hurt your image collectively.

[PeZook]

Now I can't speak for Beo but you'll note that no other MESS power has sent a CVBG in response to any other situation...and the Costa situation DOES affect him directly as he has territorial holdings on the F-ing so of course it affects him. So fine go yell and scream about how we "all the time" bully folks and then sit back knowing that of the current CATO membership one nation has committed an act of genocide and another has let violent zombie-creating viruses run rampant through one of their cities. Yup we are the dickish ones here.

Okay, I can understand the former thing is a valid criticism of CATO (though keep in mind that the CSR kept this whole thing a secret, so nobody in CATO knows they did it IC), but why is the latter a strike against us? It's not like Siege released the virus intentionally, it was dragged back from Astaria by illegal hunting expeditions, and was a direct result of Shepistani bioweapon attacks.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

- Yes the OD profited after spending a decade and billions in cleanup they have seen a tiny little uptick in GDP. Not to mention that the fallout of the attack killed off thousands of his citizens and in the ensuing troubles within what was Shepistan the loss of all maintenace has already caused huge disruptions to the existing infrastructure, its essentially STILL a wasteland with only the most critical centers of commerce and industry rebuilt. Thinking that the destruction of Shepistan was somehow a windfall for anyone is the height of folly.

Don't be obtuse. Lonestar, with the destruction of Shepistan, finally got a big thorn off his back and even with the short term loss is poised for long term gain. Also, it is as if Shep's biowarring didn't demand any form of response from the international community. If this were a real world, half the world would watch in horror that a nation just got summarily obliterated by a gleeful opponent and there would be either sanctions or an armed response. Which country would be allowed to get away with mass murder in real life especially of this scale?

- By your same measure CATO condones genocide.

We prefer it as righteous justice for someone who uses bioweapons and WMD in such a scale for which should not only be frowned upon but condemned.

- I'm wondering aside from Beo's interests in the F-ing (note that the F-ing Neutrality Pact was binding on him which means that YES the apparent attempt by Baerne to invade and re-organize the poltiics of Costa affects him) you'll note no interference in those nations.

"Apparent" my arse. Until Beowulf actually wrote up an attack, Baerne had no fucking cassus belli and he made no attempt to even attack any Costa troops but instead chose to safeguard his borders. ARe we in the business of rewriting history here? And then Beowulf handily hands Costa chemical weapons which he promptly writes up an attack.

Hell I sold Seige equipment for his NFT Coast Guard, I have sold new and surplus equipment before as have Rogue and Coyote. The idea that "The MESS" is some bullying power comes about because everyone has gotten their panties in a twist over Beo asserting himself where he has a treaty right to assert himself.

I dunno. Your panties look pretty twisted from our angle. I wonder who is twisting who.

Now that I've said that I'm going to try and cool the temperature a bit: I don't pretend that we agree on any of the above, in fact half this conflict is BECAUSE we don't agree on the above. That said let me try this:

What SPECIFIC action do you feel deserve condemnation?


Why those actions?


I say this because that is what this comes down to, as I see it. Both sides feel aggrieved and I'd rather cut through the bullshit and just figure out what would make everyone happy. We may not be able to reach an accord this way but maybe its a place to start.

Frankly, I am almost had it with the game and I only a hair string away from walking off. Because again this game is falling back to the same problem as before: Everyone wants different things and some want conflict. If we can't sort out that, then this game is just going round in circles and will just self-atomise itself. Maybe we should even get Shep to come back to do the honors of pushing that red button. I don't give a damn about conferences and accords anymore after the last sham of a conference.

[Siege]

... and another has let violent zombie-creating viruses run rampant through one of their cities. Yup we are the dickish ones here.

Yes, we sure "let" that happen, didn't we? We totally didn't send in the military to clean up ASAP. No sir, we stood back and laughed. And it's totally unreasonable to expect members of a military alliance to use their influence to reign in members acting out from under the protective umbrella of said alliance, right?

Are you even listening to yourself?

Oh and here's a protip: no-one fucking knew about the CSR bombing Shepistan until the Old Dominion went public with their findings years after the fact, and who on Earth is seriously going to believe the Old Dominion, home of notoriously unstable paranoid warmongers?

EDIT: PS, I find it hilarious that your sole reason to feel aggrieved is the destruction of a nation your whole alliance went to war with seven or so years ago, and this is somehow on the same level as MESS members continuously acting like pricks right now. Yeah, that's sure on the same level right there. In fact, you were so worried about the Old Dominion's findings that you brought it up during the last conference... OH WAIT. You didn't do that, because you were too busy being silent whilst Tian Xia and the Old Dominion wove their dicks around! Again!

[Shroom Man 777]

From what I see, what they want is the MESS to use internal influence to reign in the Old Dominion's attitude toward other countries instead of giving knee-jerk supportive responses or, at best, absolute silence whenever a MESS power gets unnecessarily aggressive.

It's true that three of the MESS Imperiums (Canissia, Shinra, Wilkonia) have not been aggressive or hostile to CATO, but you seem to have no problem in letting Old Dominion and Tian Xia rattle sabers (and at least Tian Xia has the excuse of Frequesuan holdings, Old Dominion seems only interested in showing the world how tough it is), and that does hurt your image collectively.

Yes.

Frankly, I am almost had it with the game and I only a hair string away from walking off. Because again this game is falling back to the same problem as before: Everyone wants different things and some want conflict. If we can't sort out that, then this game is just going round in circles and will just self-atomise itself. Maybe we should even get Shep to come back to do the honors of pushing that red button. I don't give a damn about conferences and accords anymore after the last sham of a conference.

Already happened with me, mang. The only reason I'm back in on these threads is to participate in the upcoming PRIME NOIR.

[Steve]

The conference failed because, frankly, we're writing all of our countries' reactions and we're a rather bellicose, prideful, and aggressive lot. Practically there was little reason for the two alliances to become so hotly argumentative at the Conference save that we wanted to be (particularly you, Lonestar! *also glances in the directions of Shady, Ryan, Siege, and Beowulf*).

Where, precisely, do CATO and MESS interests conflict? Or perhaps we should break it down into a nation-by-nation basis.

Canissia, a MESS power, is an Old Continent state. Even if it's part of the MESS it is economically tied to, at the very least, two CATO nations (Shroomania and PeZookia) by virtue of having borders with them. If any MESS-CATO war breaks out, it will, to now paraphrase a Cold War saying, be fought to the last Canissian. It is not in Canissia's interests to be hostile with CATO and I think some of Canissia's political parties should start reflecting this growing concern.

Tian Xia perhaps has the most reason for tensions with CATO: it has Frequesuan holdings and clearly desires to influence that continent in various ways. A continent where the northern shore is now dominated by a CATO member (NFT) with another CATO state (Baerne) in the northwest, with a UCSR-satellite (the ARSF) on Tian Jiao's western frontier (if it's at least sandwhiched from the other end by MESS's other Frequesue member, the Vineyards). And because of geography Tian Xia is probably leery of the NFT because its position gives it some ability to interfere with lines of communication to Tian Jiao.

Shinra's Frequesuan interest lies with the Vineyards, a former colony. It is now a MESS state. However, unlike Tian Xia, I don't think Shinra has quite so much interest as to justify hostilities with CATO.

Wilkonia has, to my knowledge, no real interest in Frequesue. And IIRC it has some lingering economic concerns with the possible exhaustion of one of its key silver lodes that make military adventurism undesirable (also has to concern itself with Tonkin, which under Phong's rule has become a nuclear-centric military with an Eisenhower Doctrine-style strategy).

Serenity probably trades with Frequesue regularly but that's about it. It's primary external interest seems to be in Veleria, the Akori Republic. And it has friendly ties with Zoria, the neighboring CATO observer.

Vineyards is a Frequesuan nation, with CATO on most of its borders, so it understandably has some concern.

And that brings us to Old Dominion, which realistically should still be focusing on absorbing Shepistan, East Shepistan, and St. Kitteridge (is that the spelling?) and cleaning up from what happened, not to mention what's going on in Sirnoth. Yet it finds time to have bomber flights into Frequesuan seas with unnecessarily hostile behavior (like flying with IFF transponders turned off). Then when its actions cause an incident it demands apology and recompense even though they're clearly responsible for what happened (And I will argue that for the bomber shoot-down, the NFT had one decision that led to it while Old Dominion had three).

This whole thing comes down to Lonestar being a prick about things and prodding at people and other MESS players, sensitive to complaints due to Shep and Skimmer, overreacting OOC (Even if IC they're finally starting to wise up apparently) when they get griped at.

And of course, it has in turn provoked Siege here becoming irreconcilable and very defensive with other CATO players becoming similarly predisposed to distrust of MESS.

So now MESS and CATO are constantly pointing fingers at each other with a "It's not my fault, they started it!" attitude that doesn't help anyone and leaves the problem smoldering.

[PeZook]

Uh...I don't think the OD went public with the information.

[DarthShady]

Oh yes we're all this monolithic bloc of evil that does nothing but bully people. Never mind that no one in the MESS has ever wiped a fucking country off the map. You can call us dicks all you want but there is only one nation left on Terrra Nova which has literally wiped another from the face of the planet and they aren't part of the MESS.

This grasping at straws, by bringing back shit that happened almost a decade ago, is fucking pathetic. I mean seriously if Steve can see things clearly, then what the fuck is stopping you? You have a brain, use it. Oh wait - you have to protect your pride...can't admit you're wrong.

This shit is becoming comedy gold.

[Siege]

So now MESS and CATO are constantly pointing fingers at each other with a "It's not my fault, they started it!" attitude that doesn't help anyone and leaves the problem smoldering.

Frankly I don't really give a wooden nickel for who did what in the past -- instead I feel that the overarching problem that's behind a lot of the current grievances is the permanent state of denial some members of the MESS appear to be in, as if responsibility for whichever clusterfuck we're dealing with today couldn't possibly rest at least partially with them.

What's that phrase again? "There's a word for bias you can't see: yours." CATO is not Shepistan or Japanistan, you're not the unequivocal good guys here, so wake up from the rar! spartamessica! routine and own up. We're doing it, the Shinra Republic and Canissia seem to have seen the light, so why can't the rest of you?

[Lonestar]

Oh and here's a protip: no-one fucking knew about the CSR bombing Shepistan until the Old Dominion went public with their findings years after the fact, and who on Earth is seriously going to believe the Old Dominion, home of notoriously unstable paranoid warmongers?

The OD never went public with that information, although it did inform the other MESS Leaders shortly after it had gathered the evidence. There's been a collective informal decision on the part of the MESS leadership not to bring it up publically, although I have no idea if Fin approached it's CATO allies with the information or decided to sit on it.

[Shroom Man 777]

Note that I don't think the Crimson Star Republic forwarded the information (that it murdered Shepistan) to the rest of CATO either.

FUCKING MESSICANS!

EDIT:

And come ON! I think the MESS leaders, upon hearing that someone killed the fuck out of Shep, would be all THANKFUL for whoever did it. These people are us fresh from the postatomic wastelands of Nova Terra, gentlemen.

Prime Minister Shroom still screams in his sleep, upon having nightmares of children in playgrounds being burned alive and blown apart like leaves by the thermonuclear blastwaves!

[Siege]

The OD never went public with that information, although it did inform the other MESS Leaders shortly after it had gathered the evidence. There's been a collective informal decision on the part of the MESS leadership not to bring it up publically, although I have no idea if Fin approached it's CATO allies with the information or decided to sit on it.

Oh, sorry about that then, I thought you posted an OD newspaper article about it... My mistake. Then so far as I'm concerned I remain completely oblivious to Comrade Stanislav's decision to annihilate Shepistan.

[CmdrWilkens]

Ya know here's a funn thing. Everyone here has latched on to the first half of my previous post "Ohh Wilkens you don't know what your talking about." Did any of you even fucking bother with the second half? Do ya'll just want to bitch about the evil MESS or do you want to actually try a bit of dialouge? So far the responses to my two questions have been:

Fin: Ignore by way of saying he is tired of the game
Seige: Ignore
Shroom: Ignore
Shady: Ignore

So yeah I ask the quesiton of what do you want and my response is freakin crickets chirping.

[Lonestar]

Oh, sorry about that then, I thought you posted an OD newspaper article about it... My mistake. Then so far as I'm concerned I remain completely oblivious to Comrade Stanislav's decision to annihilate Shepistan.

I think I did, but it was in a Lunatic tinfoil hat rag or "Coast to Coast with Fart Bell" or something.

[Siege]

So yeah I ask the quesiton of what do you want and my response is freakin crickets chirping.

I just explained what I want. Twice. It's some damned attitude adjustment. I'll repeat myself for your convenience though: I don't give a shit about the washlist of things that went wrong in the past, I want to make sure the game remains playable in the future. That won't work if your allies continue to insist on being belligerent assholes, whether they "have a treaty right to assert themselves" or not. Let's cut the IC crap, because IC arguments won't resolve this matter -- else we'd have settled it during the world conference. You know, the one that was a miserable failure in every conceivable way. This is an OOC problem, for reasons that Fingolfin already laid out. But then, he's just "ignoring" you, am I right?

Are you getting it yet? It doesn't matter whether anyone has a right to do anything IC when OOC you're pissing off players to the point where they'd rather nuke the world if that means they can wash their hands of the game. Either we come to some kind of OOC accord, or we'll just keep going round accusing each other of petty IC shit and we'll never get anywhere.

EDIT: To clarify my point of view, I'm not in this game to play 'war simulator 2017'. I don't have the technical knowledge to design super awesome missile cruisers, nor the inclination to read up on the latest greatest in radar and sonar technology so I can write about wicked battle management system x. That's not a game I'm interested in playing; I'm playing primarily so I can write zany stories and bounce crazy ideas off other people, and right now I don't get around to doing that because there's this tedious lingering crisis that demands my attention. This I find irritating. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have agreed to Lonestar's bomber crisis idea, but it seemed like a fun idea at the time... Until it devolved into what now seems to have become a game of poke-the-NFT, which just isn't my cup of tea. I find it aggravating and tiresome.

Now, if it turns out that war simulator 2017 is the kind of game you're interested in playing then that's perfectly all right I guess, you've as much right to play it your way as I have playing it my way... But if that's the case, then perhaps you can do the poking among the people who like that sort of thing, and leave me/us out of it. I believe we could inhabit this world if the people who like global tensions play among themselves, and the people who like zany stories do the same.

[DarthShady]

Ya know here's a funn thing. Everyone here has latched on to the first half of my previous post "Ohh Wilkens you don't know what your talking about." Did any of you even fucking bother with the second half? Do ya'll just want to bitch about the evil MESS or do you want to actually try a bit of dialouge? So far the responses to my two questions have been:

Fin: Ignore by way of saying he is tired of the game
Seige: Ignore
Shroom: Ignore
Shady: Ignore

So yeah I ask the quesiton of what do you want and my response is freakin crickets chirping.

How about this? You reign in your mad dogs and stop them from pissing people of by getting involved in shit they have no reason in being involved and just generally stop them from being assholes to others. Instead of just being quiet every time they start this. Pulling shit IC is one thing, but when you are pissing people of OOC then you have to realize that you're doing something wrong and it's time to do something about it. The fact that most of the MESS is content in simply being quiet while a few of you do this, is rather irritating.

[Shroom Man 777]

Wilkens, I agreed with Steve's immediate reply to your post - which surmised everything up quite nicely:

From what I see, what they want is the MESS to use internal influence to reign in the Old Dominion's attitude toward other countries instead of giving knee-jerk supportive responses or, at best, absolute silence whenever a MESS power gets unnecessarily aggressive.

It's true that three of the MESS Imperiums (Canissia, Shinra, Wilkonia) have not been aggressive or hostile to CATO, but you seem to have no problem in letting Old Dominion and Tian Xia rattle sabers (and at least Tian Xia has the excuse of Frequesuan holdings, Old Dominion seems only interested in showing the world how tough it is), and that does hurt your image collectively.

Yes.