The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

[R011]

Chavez may like to pretend he's Simon Bolivar reincarnated, but he's probably not completely insane or actually developmentally delayed. He's probably still supporting indigenous guerrillas in neighbouring countries, and they've very probably kept nearly all of their forces at home. I doubt that few of his neighbours have many units with the training and equipment to be useful to the HEA - they concentrate on COIN for obvious reasons as well as poverty. Colombia, for instance, only has about enough armoured cars and APC's for a lightly equipped brigade.

Venezuela has about twice that including about a battalion's worth of old AMX-30 tanks. One can assume that France has little interest in providing further logistic support given Chavez' refusal to join the Human forces. Similarly his new Sukhoi Su-30's, if they've been delivered, will have much less than the usual support from Russia.

If his Cuban friends are still about, they're likely telling him to behave himself, at least for now. Events in Burma should also prove to be illustrative.

[Simon_Jester]

One the implications start to sink in, it's going to be nasty for any POWs. How do you risk keeping prisoners if any of them MIGHT be a sensitive that can be used to drop a battalion into the middle of your prison camp?

Tinfoil. Granted, it'll be a problem to make sure they're all shielded (maybe a field test to determine if someone can be a spotter?) but not insurmountable.

Could you hire a demon to identify which ones are sensitive?

[Pelranius]

One the implications start to sink in, it's going to be nasty for any POWs. How do you risk keeping prisoners if any of them MIGHT be a sensitive that can be used to drop a battalion into the middle of your prison camp?

Tinfoil. Granted, it'll be a problem to make sure they're all shielded (maybe a field test to determine if someone can be a spotter?) but not insurmountable.

Could you hire a demon to identify which ones are sensitive?

Problem is, how can you be sure the demon is reliable and not working for the other side, or has some grudge against you?

[FireNexus]

How can you be sure that any informant is reliable and not working for the other side? You can't, so you get multiple opinions. Duh.

[Jamesfirecat]

On the issue of where to keep POWS, I don't think that the best place to put htem would be somewhere in Hell. Rember, at the moment to open a portal from earth to Earth is a lot easier than the reverse, so while it would be easy to launch an attack out of hell to any gulag on Earth doing stuff from Earth to hell requires sensative machinery.

Or on the other hand we might see something like the old time fedual parol system come back "Okay none of us can keep mass POW camps anymore, so here's what we're going to do instead I agree to let any of yours guys we capture go free, you do the same for us, and anyone who gets captured has to promise not to fight anymore..." Of course the problem with this is that some people won't be let go since they'll be want to kept for round the clock examination and interigation in tin foil rooms, but that's an issue for the next war, or Lords of War as the case may be...

[Peptuck]

I want to make a terribly obvious joke about thinking with portals, but its already been made.

[Darth Wong]

The real question is: what kind of intel can they get out of the Burmese junta once they capture them? These would be the first humans who have a confirmed association with Heaven.

[erik_t]

However didn't we determine that they're already not being completely honest with Michael? Don't I remember them giving him an awful convenient probably-bugged electric cart or something?

[Pelranius]

Interesting how Michael was about to cart off all the 'street grade' drugs for the past two years? Is he doing it personally all the time? That sounds like a lot of blow, even for an angel of his size to carry back and forth constantly.

The Junta would provide useful info on the drug ring that Mike Lan is running, as well as the gemstones (I wonder if upon examination, the celestial sapphires and rubies to see if they have different properties from their Earth counterparts), though tricking him into coming back is probably out of the question.

[GrayAnderson]

Pelranius,
For what it's worth, I suspect he has a rather large contingent of people he's "catering to" in Heaven. Also, if I had to guess, he's the source of the liquor (or one of the sources), albeit through an intermediary. If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say that the two anti-Yahweh groups in Heaven are, if not linked together, at least somehow related. Michael putting together a second rebel group to take any and all heat off of him would be a slick move, and one I'd be inclined to suspect him in. And if he "arranged" it to flush out unreliables of some sort, I don't think it would trace back easily.

[Memnon]

Also, if I had to guess, he's the source of the liquor (or one of the sources), albeit through an intermediary. If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say that the two anti-Yahweh groups in Heaven are, if not linked together, at least somehow related. Michael putting together a second rebel group to take any and all heat off of him would be a slick move, and one I'd be inclined to suspect him in. And if he "arranged" it to flush out unreliables of some sort, I don't think it would trace back easily.

Michael-Lan studied the charts again. He had to agree with Lemuel-Lan, this had every appearance of being a conspiracy, in some ways worst of all, it wasn't his.

Note here that Michael-Lan took note of the people _not_ on the chart earlier - this most likely precludes an intermediary between Michael and that conspiracy, since he keeps close tabs on who he wins over. It's not impossible that they're linked inadvertently, but it would seem extremely dubious.

[Stuart Mackey]

Looks like Myanmar may very well regret invading Thailand. Plus it looks like portal technology has just revolutionised warfare; no defensive line is now safe if an army can just open up a portal behind it, or go straight to the capital.
Mind you that does pose potential problems even for the most powerful countries - they're now theoretically open to raids on their capital cities, or any vital points.

Heh, I am reminded of a couple of scenes in TESB: "Lord Vader, Marshal Ozzel reports that the army has left the portal, comscan reports additional portal activity beside the enemy capital along our assault routes.
"The enemy is alerted to our presence"
"He felt surprise was wiser..."
Marshal Ozzel is as clumsy as he is stupid. General Veers, prepare your men for nuclear assault"

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe Micheal Lan actually expects the counterattack on Burma - and has prepared the prompt countermeasures for it. Say, if he's expecting the HEA to land in Kanchanaburi or Naypyidaw then he might already be preparing to dump a sky-volcano or some other obscene shit on Pretaeus' forces the second they portal in! OH SHIT!

[Ilya Muromets]

Hey, cool, kitten gets a mention. I hope she makes an appearance in the next chapter.

And, man, Myanmar's gonna be on the receiving end of some pretty nasty retribution for this little stunt. I wonder how this is gonna affect Kim Jong-Il's own actions. Then again, the Dear Leader seemed pretty damned frightened about the possibility of Heaven returning Kim Il-Sung, so even if he does know what happens to Myanmar it may change absoluetely nothing. See, this is what happens when you listen to Yahweh.

[drakensis]

One option that occurs to me is that intentionally or not Michael is about to get a very good opportunity to see humanity's post-Hell military doctrine in action.

He's probably got a decent idea what they did to Hell, but what's got to be on his mind is what Humanity is going to do to Heaven and this should start giving him ideas.

[Shroom Man 777]

See, having the Human Expeditionary Army coming down on Burma would be an excellent way for Micheal to enact the next Bowl of Wrath or whatever it is - the whole FIRE RAINING DOWN FROM THE SKY and shit.

Hell, maybe Belial suggested this to Micheal! Yeah, Belial is a clever cookie and knowing the capabilities of humans first-hand, how conventionally invincible they are, and how Hell and portals work and what advantages humans now have with both, it could be conceivable that Belial could have a hand in this as Micheal's advisor.

[Chris OFarrell]

Exccelllelntttt.

But you know, I can't help but think that this whole thing might be a little more complex...I just have this horrible feeling that the CIA is running some kind of deep-cover opp on the Junta that no-one but the CIA knows about (gotta love that intelligence world where they don't bother to tell anyone stuff like this) using them to get into Heaven as part of their own project.

Then the Human Army is going to storm into the place and bash everything flat, killing their window of opportunity causing the CIA to go screaming "YOU IDIOTS, YOU'VE RUINED EVERYTHING!", getting a rather blunt sort of military response back, then congressional hearings and so on...


One thing though.

I don't think we've really heard much of anything about the UN since the very early chapters of Salvation. As the world came into line, trying to administer hell and so on, I would have expected them to be sticking their noses in more and more...

[Setzer]

If kitten being on a leash causes protocol problems, couldn't they get her one from a K-9 unit? I know the Navy has some as drug dogs. IIRC, those are formally a part of the military's supply system. It would help a bit with uniformity.

And you mentioned the Phelan plain in Anvil of Necessity. Let me guess, the geography makes it a logical place for an invasion of Thailand through Burma?

[dragon]

If kitten being on a leash causes protocol problems, couldn't they get her one from a K-9 unit? I know the Navy has some as drug dogs. IIRC, those are formally a part of the military's supply system. It would help a bit with uniformity.

And you mentioned the Phelan plain in Anvil of Necessity. Let me guess, the geography makes it a logical place for an invasion of Thailand through Burma?

Thats not quite what he meant Kitten is a person. Having a few working dogs isn't going to help when people see she her walking around with a leash around her neck.

As for the portals wonder if they can be used to colonize other places such as the moon.

[Setzer]

I meant that it would be a regulation leash. I think that would make all the difference.

[Simon_Jester]

Could you hire a demon to identify which ones are sensitive?

Problem is, how can you be sure the demon is reliable and not working for the other side, or has some grudge against you?

Pay them a lavish salary, with horrible punishments if they're caught lying?

I don't think we've really heard much of anything about the UN since the very early chapters of Salvation. As the world came into line, trying to administer hell and so on, I would have expected them to be sticking their noses in more and more...

With all the Security Council powers allied to fight this war, and with many of the world's more influential minor nations participating, the UN will have been effectively co-opted. A very tiny minority of the world's loopiest nations might still be giving speeches condemning this, that, or the other thing in the UN, but any UN resolutions passed are going to support the war effort, not undermine it or interfere with it.

[Setzer]

I can't really see what this war will do for Michael except gain him a little breathing space. Though this is a problem, it's not a long term one. None of these nations are strong enough to seriously threaten the major players. I mean, hell, the Thais seem to think they can handle Burma alone to an extent.

[GrayAnderson]

On the Moon Colonization: Yes, as long as you can get a portal reciever in the location you want to go. Put another way, I think you could send a one-way rocket trip into Mars Orbit, open two portals (one Earth Orbit to Hell and one Hell to Mars Orbit) and fire a Saturn through, and then use the Saturn to basically do a re-run of the Moon landing. It would run a couple tens of billions of dollars, but once you get a ship on Mars' surface you can walk astronauts straight from Houston or Cape Canaveral to Mars and back like they're walking into the office, and the same applies for parts. If you could contain the Earth end of a portal in a near-vacuum room (call it a Mars Room), you'd have no problem at all shipping building parts, etc. through.

Come to think of it, using the Moon as a stepping-stone, you could set up a base there with a re-run of the Apollo program and the aforementioned procedure. If you get a big enough portal going there, you could (in theory) simply roll your Mars rockets through the portal and launch on the Moon without worrying about Earth's gravity...and as a comical thought, if you could somehow move a portal (is that doable in any way? I know planets aren't stationary in space, etc.) and engineer an atmospheric exchange, you could use a Venus-Hell-Mars exchange to try and work on both of them. Given that the Soviet landing on Venus did last an hour or two before it melted (yes, I know, it did melt), I could see some countries with less-than-scrupulous human rights records shooting some portal-capable individuals off to Venus and having them punch through back to Hell in a big hurry once they get there to arrange this. Particularly considering that the retirement package if things go pear-shaped isn't all that bad and can be made quite comfortable (and it is fairly definite)...

[Baughn]

Is it, I wonder?

Hell is larger than Earth, but it isn't infinite. I had a thought, that someone who dies somewhere other than Earth might end up somewhere else entirely, or just go off to oblivion. It's worth a try! For science!

[FireNexus]

I could see some countries with less-than-scrupulous human rights records shooting some portal-capable individuals off to Venus and having them punch through back to Hell in a big hurry once they get there to arrange this.

That wouldn't happen, unless they sent a Baldrick to do it. Nephilim are WAY too precious to waste like that.