Borg Vs Lightsabers

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2003-02-09 05:55pm

ali-sama wrote:
Luke Starkiller wrote:
ali-sama wrote: that is like comparing a 2.2ghz phone to a 2.2 ghz pc.
Not really, in your example the 2.2GHz are measures of different things. The 320MW figure is a measure of sustainable power.
ok. an analogy. Take a car. an average compact one.

1: you kick it.

2: you hi tit with a metal bat

3: you hit itwith a popick axe.

now. you make sure each of them have the same force.

what happems? the kick will shake the car. make a dent at worst. the bat will dent the car. the axe however wil cut trhoguh the armor.
now. lets go back to the original situation. you have aship in 0 g. hit by a force, which is tightly focused. please read up newton.

You sir, are an idiot. You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-02-09 05:55pm

Ok then...

Ali wrote: thank you sir for enlightnignme that a light sabre and a particle beam are the same."

....huh?

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:09pm

You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.

a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:10pm

Badme wrote:Ok then...

Ali wrote: thank you sir for enlightnignme that a light sabre and a particle beam are the same."

....huh?

please look up sarcasm in the dictionary.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-09 06:23pm

ali-sama wrote:
You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.
a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.

Depends on your interpitation of a lightsaber. If you perscribe to the moronic idea that it is actually a laser sword, then yes. However there are a lot of theories on how a lightsaber works and alot of the issues you bring up are adressed. Everything from plasma, shields, and virtual particles are brought up. Imagining a very short laser for a sword is a very short idea.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-09 06:23pm

before you tell people how to post, you should learn some keyboarding skills

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:39pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:before you tell people how to post, you should learn some keyboarding skills

i was being helpfull.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-02-09 06:39pm

Kurgan, I think the point was that the force somehow ENHANCES the light saber; it's not its source of power. Anyone can pick one up and use it, but Jedi or Sith may be able to enhance its power output with their force skills.

Ok, according to the RPG this is so. I realize that most people here disagree, but can someone show me that the RPG is wrong about this? Someone told me that the novels and books are a canon source that somehow outrank the RPG, so please give me a reference for that statement.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:41pm

Knife wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.
a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.
Depends on your interpitation of a lightsaber. If you perscribe to the moronic idea that it is actually a laser sword, then yes. However there are a lot of theories on how a lightsaber works and alot of the issues you bring up are adressed. Everything from plasma, shields, and virtual particles are brought up. Imagining a very short laser for a sword is a very short idea.

lasers can be used to push objects. one of the ways suggested to divert asteriods form colliding with the earth is to use a laser to alter it;s course.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-02-09 06:47pm

Which has what to do with anything?

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2003-02-09 06:47pm

ali-sama wrote:
Knife wrote:
ali-sama wrote: a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.
Depends on your interpitation of a lightsaber. If you perscribe to the moronic idea that it is actually a laser sword, then yes. However there are a lot of theories on how a lightsaber works and alot of the issues you bring up are adressed. Everything from plasma, shields, and virtual particles are brought up. Imagining a very short laser for a sword is a very short idea.
lasers can be used to push objects. one of the ways suggested to divert asteriods form colliding with the earth is to use a laser to alter it;s course.

That is being suggested because a laser would serve to heat up a small area of the asteroid, causing it to vapourize and thereby providing thrust. The momentum of the laser would have a neglible effect on the asteroid.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 06:48pm

ali-sama wrote:
You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.
a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.

You are clearly a pothead. All things have momentum.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:55pm

Luke Starkiller wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
Knife wrote: Depends on your interpitation of a lightsaber. If you perscribe to the moronic idea that it is actually a laser sword, then yes. However there are a lot of theories on how a lightsaber works and alot of the issues you bring up are adressed. Everything from plasma, shields, and virtual particles are brought up. Imagining a very short laser for a sword is a very short idea.
lasers can be used to push objects. one of the ways suggested to divert asteriods form colliding with the earth is to use a laser to alter it;s course.
That is being suggested because a laser would serve to heat up a small area of the asteroid, causing it to vapourize and thereby providing thrust. The momentum of the laser would have a neglible effect on the asteroid.

my bad.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 06:56pm

SirNitram wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.
a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.
You are clearly a pothead. All things have momentum.

yes. when thier in motion. that is correct. Anythign with mass which is moving has momentom.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 07:00pm

ali-sama wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
ali-sama wrote: a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.
You are clearly a pothead. All things have momentum.
yes. when thier in motion. that is correct. Anythign with mass which is moving has momentom.

Very good, you have a grasp of basic physics, if not grammar and spelling. Now, explain why a lightsaber being swung is somehow without momentum or whatever strange point you were failing to make.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-09 07:01pm

ali-sama wrote:that is like comparing a 2.2ghz phone to a 2.2 ghz pc.

No it's not. Heat is heat, whether I blast you with a gigantic blow dryer or let your moronic ass bake in the corona of a star. If a lightsaber can generate the requisite energy to melt gigantic, reinforced doors composed of materials presumably stronger than steel, it can generate the requisite heat to do so.

You are trying to say that a focused particle beam(insert generic weapons fire) at a certain power level will deliver energy to its target substantially differently than a focused energy beam of some kind(a lightsabre). A lightsabre delivers energy to its target in an extremely small area, for all intents and purposes it should act on sheilds in exactly the same way that trek weapons will.
a particel beam has momentom and other factos a light sabre does not.

Ah, so I guess the droids just flew apart of their own accord, then?

lasers can be used to push objects. one of the ways suggested to divert asteriods form colliding with the earth is to use a laser to alter it;s course.

ROTFLMAO!!!! You're just full of comic gems, aren't you? I could piss on an asteroid and induce a larger change of momentum in an asteroid than any laser we could possibly build.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 07:03pm

SirNitram wrote:
ali-sama wrote:
SirNitram wrote: You are clearly a pothead. All things have momentum.
yes. when thier in motion. that is correct. Anythign with mass which is moving has momentom.
Very good, you have a grasp of basic physics, if not grammar and spelling. Now, explain why a lightsaber being swung is somehow without momentum or whatever strange point you were failing to make.

we where talking about the way it was used to melt par tof the blast doors. the ligthsaber was mostly stationary. a light saber being swung woudl ofcorse have momentum. assuming it has mass.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 07:10pm

Durandal wrote: No it's not. Heat is heat, whether I blast you with a gigantic blow dryer or let your moronic ass bake in the corona of a star. If a lightsaber can generate the requisite energy to melt gigantic, reinforced doors composed of materials presumably stronger than steel, it can generate the requisite heat to do so.

they where not that big. Alos there are diffrent ways of transmittign ke. one is radiation another is osmosis.

Ah, so I guess the droids just flew apart of their own accord, then?

no. the light saber, whielin motion hass momentom. But not when ti;s stationary.

lasers can be used to push objects. one of the ways suggested to divert asteriods form colliding with the earth is to use a laser to alter it;s course.
ROTFLMAO!!!! You're just full of comic gems, aren't you? I could piss on an asteroid and induce a larger change of momentum in an asteroid than any laser we could possibly build.

actually that was my mistake. which I admitted.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-09 07:15pm

Oky doke ali sama, you have been running around shoring up your previous statements. Drop that for a moment and make a coherent argument. The whole problem with Borg adapting to the lightsaber is the same problem that Borg have with everything else. How do you adapt to higher and higher power outputs. If the lightsaber can be shown to produce and/or deliever more energy than a Borg can absorb/redirect, then how the hell can it "adapt" to it. If the lightsaber can produce more force than a ST shipboard weapons system, then how is a individual drone going to cope with that?

This whole "adapt" thing has gone too far and is rivaling the "lasers wouldn't even penetrate our navigational shields" thing for the most stupid ST argument.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 07:22pm

Should I even begin to get into the fact thay even an object at rest from our perspective has momentum?(Newton's Laws, don't they teach those in middle school in America?)

Or that a lightsaber has definate mass, even if we assume(As the residents of the PSW forum do) that the beams of SW are masslass, because there is the hilt, and the momentum will flow along(Imagine a saber with such a massless blade as being weighted heavily to the hilt, like a shortsword).

The thermal and power concerns have been pointed out, so unless I get the sudden urge to mock Ali's spelling some more, I'm done until the next barrage appears.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 07:28pm

Knife wrote:Oky doke ali sama, you have been running around shoring up your previous statements. Drop that for a moment and make a coherent argument. The whole problem with Borg adapting to the lightsaber is the same problem that Borg have with everything else. How do you adapt to higher and higher power outputs. If the lightsaber can be shown to produce and/or deliever more energy than a Borg can absorb/redirect, then how the hell can it "adapt" to it. If the lightsaber can produce more force than a ST shipboard weapons system, then how is a individual drone going to cope with that?

This whole "adapt" thing has gone too far and is rivaling the "lasers wouldn't even penetrate our navigational shields" thing for the most stupid ST argument.

I never said the borg woudl adapt to a light sabre. I just said that you can't compare a particle beam to light sabre just with power out put alone. Alos contact with lightsabers and the borgs shields woudl be quick and brief. but yes. if it overpowers it, you woudl have one sliced and diced borg. no doubt about that. A jedi is much faster adn manuverabel then any borg.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 07:40pm

SirNitram wrote:Should I even begin to get into the fact thay even an object at rest from our perspective has momentum?(Newton's Laws, don't they teach those in middle school in America?)

Yes, everything in the universe is in constant motion. Momentum is based on velocity and mass. That is why there is a set reference point, in order to measure things. It’s like our temperature values, Fahrenheit and Celsius both have 0 degree values. But are they truly 0? No. Kelvin is more accurate. So basically. Relative to us. A sitting object has no momentum. This means that the objects momentum will not affect us because we are in it’s reference frame.

Or that a lightsaber has definate mass, even if we assume(As the residents of the PSW forum do) that the beams of SW are masslass, because there is the hilt, and the momentum will flow along(Imagine a saber with such a massless blade as being weighted heavily to the hilt, like a shortsword).

he stuck the sabre into the door and let it melt the door. For the saber to have momentum he would need to pull and push the sabre like a saw.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 07:50pm

You failed physics, didn't you? I'll be nice and leave a few replies for you to work out just how badly you fucked up.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2003-02-09 07:53pm

SirNitram wrote:You failed physics, didn't you? I'll be nice and leave a few replies for you to work out just how badly you fucked up.

yes I did. *head falls in shame* I was good at the math part of it. the guy stuttered all the time and was a complete bore.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 07:56pm

ali-sama wrote:
SirNitram wrote:You failed physics, didn't you? I'll be nice and leave a few replies for you to work out just how badly you fucked up.
yes I did. *head falls in shame* I was good at the math part of it. the guy stuttered all the time and was a complete bore.

Then I suggest you go re-read Newton's laws of motion and rub your braincells together to see how that might influence momentum.

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Borg Vs Lightsabers

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