Vong vs. the Borg

[ali-sama]

*ponders Ali-Sama's contributions to this thread while refueling my flame gun with Ka oil*

anyways...

The Borg have already demonstrated an inability to cope with organic technology in their battles with species 8472. Given that the Vong use organic technology, and that they can manage the destruction of SW ships, they should be able to tackle the Borg.

actually that is not exactly true. species 8472 was immune to borg nanos. It was shown that borg nanos can assimilate/ infect them with the intervention of voyager. We have no evidence to proove that the vong do have this ability. Assimilating organic tech would be as simple as assimilating a human. unless they have immunity , like species 8472.

[beyond hope]

In other words, the Borg couldn't cope with them without the help of Voyager.

[ali-sama]

In other words, the Borg couldn't cope with them without the help of Voyager.

yes. becuase species 8472 where immune to to their nano probes.. The entire race and their bioships which where obviosly and extention of their own selves.
If the vong has such an immunity then the borg are screwed unless they can over pwoer the vong or find a way of getting past the immune system. We woudl have to see them actually try and assimilate a vong in order to find out if/when they are immune. Or fidn a similar circumstances. IF bio weaposn are effective against the wvong. then they are in all likely ness very ceceptable to borg nanites.

[Lord Pounder]

For a start the Vong have Jedi-like speed and reflexes so how is one of them drone/zombies gonna get close enough to infect a Vong with Nano Probes? Second of all the Vong have heavy armor that even a Lightsaber couldn't cut so i really doubt that a nano probe would get into the Vongs body in the 1st place.

[ali-sama]

For a start the Vong have Jedi-like speed and reflexes so how is one of them drone/zombies gonna get close enough to infect a Vong with Nano Probes? Second of all the Vong have heavy armor that even a Lightsaber couldn't cut so i really doubt that a nano probe would get into the Vongs body in the 1st place.

well. if you don;t take into account thier personal shields and also transporters then you are very correct sir. Alos I belive seven said that the injection tubes can penetrated even the densest of alloys.
a light aber not beign abel to cut somthign can be easily explaind if the material dosnt; condcut heat very well or not at all.

[Kerneth]

Lightsabers cut through armored hull plating designed to stop heavy energy weapons (Episode 1, Qui-Gon carving through a pair of blast doors). Not instantly, perhaps, but they do it. Yuuzhan Vong vonduun crab armor (Vector Prime) shrugs off most lightsaber hits with minimal surface damage unless the lightsaber 1) finds a joint in the armor 2) finds the "gills" in the YV's armpits or 3) repeated blows to the same region of the armor.

Transporters may or may not be screwed up by the presence of dovin basal-generated artificial singularities (or whatever you want to call the "black holes". Hell, knowing how fickle transporters are, they may not be able to beam through yorik coral due to a trace element in the coral (there's gotta be SOMETHING funny in that stuff if it can withstand multiple turbolaser hits).

The YV may not have Jedi-level reflexes but they're damned close to it. And their primary personal weapons are ballistic weapons that the Borg have proven unable to adapt to (thud bugs, razor bugs, amphistaffs).

Lastly, the Vong will suicide to avoid capture. So even if you somehow threw enough Borg at the Vong to overwhelm them, chances are the Vong would kill themselves rather than be captured by the Borg.

[ali-sama]

Lightsabers cut through armored hull plating designed to stop heavy energy weapons (Episode 1, Qui-Gon carving through a pair of blast doors). Not instantly, perhaps, but they do it.

why would you have heavy armor platting vorign an enterance within your own ship. there is no way it's as strong as the outside hull. there is no reason they would make it strong enough to resist capitol ship weapons. at best it woudl resist heavy blaster fire.

Yuuzhan Vong vonduun crab armor (Vector Prime) shrugs off most lightsaber hits with minimal surface damage unless the lightsaber 1) finds a joint in the armor 2) finds the "gills" in the YV's armpits or 3) repeated blows to the same region of the armor.
.

cool. this is in a combat situation. then you are correct sir. but we have no proof that the borg rely onthe same principles tha tmake the light sabre function.

Transporters may or may not be screwed up by the presence of dovin basal-generated artificial singularities (or whatever you want to call the "black holes". Hell, knowing how fickle transporters are, they may not be able to beam through yorik coral due to a trace element in the coral (there's gotta be SOMETHING funny in that stuff if it can withstand multiple turbolaser hits).
.

well. we are talking about borg transporters.

actually it makes sence. the coral woudl be pourus. a lot of surface area.. somthing with that much surface area coudl absirbe every at a very HIGH rate. take a ship who's outer hull is made out of that stuff. It; sactual surface area woul be HUGE. weapons need to contact surface area. it;s liek spreading butter too thin.

The YV may not have Jedi-level reflexes but they're damned close to it. And their primary personal weapons are ballistic weapons that the Borg have proven unable to adapt to (thud bugs, razor bugs, amphistaffs).
.

yep. your right. as far as we have seen, bladed wepaons have been effective also guns.

Lastly, the Vong will suicide to avoid capture. So even if you somehow threw enough Borg at the Vong to overwhelm them, chances are the Vong would kill themselves rather than be captured by the Borg

yes. that is assuming th eborg nanoprobes do not alredy take over it. besides yoru point is mute. borge have been known to reanimated the dead.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Lightsabers cut through armored hull plating designed to stop heavy energy weapons (Episode 1, Qui-Gon carving through a pair of blast doors). Not instantly, perhaps, but they do it.

why would you have heavy armor platting vorign an enterance within your own ship. there is no way it's as strong as the outside hull. there is no reason they would make it strong enough to resist capitol ship weapons. at best it woudl resist heavy blaster fire.


Just regarding the ability of Star Wars blast doors to withstand damage:

If they are designed to withstand weapons like heavy antipersonnel blasters, such as the antipersonnel guns mounted on the LAAT and the AT-TE, blast doors have to be extremely resistant to damage. The maximum power level per shot from these guns is 5 gigajoules. Considering the size of the corridors in canon SW starships, deploying a small war machine, like an AT-PT, equipped with such a weapon would be entirely practical in a boarding action.

As a rough comparison figure, an American 12-inch naval rifle of the sort used on World War 2 cruisers has a muzzle energy of 41.5 megajoules (if my math is at all correct), disregarding explosive filler for the shells. Reasonably modern tank guns are usually located somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 megajoules per shot.

[ali-sama]

Lightsabers cut through armored hull plating designed to stop heavy energy weapons (Episode 1, Qui-Gon carving through a pair of blast doors). Not instantly, perhaps, but they do it.

why would you have heavy armor platting vorign an enterance within your own ship. there is no way it's as strong as the outside hull. there is no reason they would make it strong enough to resist capitol ship weapons. at best it woudl resist heavy blaster fire.


Just regarding the ability of Star Wars blast doors to withstand damage:

If they are designed to withstand weapons like heavy antipersonnel blasters, such as the antipersonnel guns mounted on the LAAT and the AT-TE, blast doors have to be extremely resistant to damage. The maximum power level per shot from these guns is 5 gigajoules. Considering the size of the corridors in canon SW starships, deploying a small war machine, like an AT-PT, equipped with such a weapon would be entirely practical in a boarding action.

As a rough comparison figure, an American 12-inch naval rifle of the sort used on World War 2 cruisers has a muzzle energy of 41.5 megajoules (if my math is at all correct), disregarding explosive filler for the shells. Reasonably modern tank guns are usually located somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 megajoules per shot.

yeha. but you would nto woatn to blwo up the bridge why tryign to take it over. no?

[Patrick Ogaard]

why would you have heavy armor platting vorign an enterance within your own ship. there is no way it's as strong as the outside hull. there is no reason they would make it strong enough to resist capitol ship weapons. at best it woudl resist heavy blaster fire.


Just regarding the ability of Star Wars blast doors to withstand damage:

If they are designed to withstand weapons like heavy antipersonnel blasters, such as the antipersonnel guns mounted on the LAAT and the AT-TE, blast doors have to be extremely resistant to damage. The maximum power level per shot from these guns is 5 gigajoules. Considering the size of the corridors in canon SW starships, deploying a small war machine, like an AT-PT, equipped with such a weapon would be entirely practical in a boarding action.

As a rough comparison figure, an American 12-inch naval rifle of the sort used on World War 2 cruisers has a muzzle energy of 41.5 megajoules (if my math is at all correct), disregarding explosive filler for the shells. Reasonably modern tank guns are usually located somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 megajoules per shot.

yeha. but you would nto woatn to blwo up the bridge why tryign to take it over. no?

One would not necessarily want to blow up the bridge, but given how efficient Wars armor appears to be, the effect on the bridge side of the blast doors would likely not be much more than what the Tantive IV crew experienced when their airlock door was blasted down: a few bridge personnel and some consoles might get shredded, but there would be survivors to capture and interrogate.

And if there is no heavy blaster available, there are always fusion cutters, sapper charges and force pikes, all of which are, for instance, standard equipment for well-equipped pirate boarders, at least those operating inside the Corporate Sector Authority.

[Kerneth]

To answer the question, "Why would you have armored doors leading into your bridge?"

1) Prevent damage to one section of the craft from spreading to another, ie, you close the blast doors in combat so if the armor breaches and a warhead detonates inside the breach, the blast doors minimize the damage done to areas of the ship outside the warhead's immediate area. 2) It also serves to prevent explosive decompression, which is generally hazardous to the people crewing a vessel when they're not wearing vacuum-rated suits, and no fun at all even when they are.
3) So if you're boarded by someone who wants to capture your ship or cargo, they have a MUCH harder time getting to important sections of the vessel like engineering or the bridge.

Reason 1 and 3 both have a direct impact not only on the need for doors, but on the need for heavily-armored ones. Reason 2 is equally as important but doesn't require as heavy a door.

[TheDarkling]

Vong armour isn't super strong/dense it just has a small force field around it that absorbs damage, as to whether nano tubbles could get past this - your guess is as good as mine (the Borg have shown the ability to get Fed force fields but this doesn't tell us much when comapred to the unknown energy levels of YV force fields).

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Vong armour isn't super strong/dense it just has a small force field around it that absorbs damage,

Strange concidering they've never demonstrated this.

[TheDarkling]

You know GAT you could have just asked where I got the info from instead of the subtle insinuation, if you read Traitor it goes into detail on both the armour (has an electrical field that acts as a forcefield) and the amphistaffs which also have this field (what allows them to take lightsaber hits) and they can cut almost anything because the field gives them a monoatomic edge.

[Illuminatus Primus]

They imply the fields reinforce the armor from energy blasts similar to the protective boosting influence of anticoncussion fields in SW tech.

[Helm]

*ponders Ali-Sama's contributions to this thread while refueling my flame gun with Ka oil*

anyways...

The Borg have already demonstrated an inability to cope with organic technology in their battles with species 8472. Given that the Vong use organic technology, and that they can manage the destruction of SW ships, they should be able to tackle the Borg.

I suppose you forgot how Voyager helped the Borg adapt to Species 8472 and allow them to assimilate their bio technology?

[beyond hope]

*ponders Ali-Sama's contributions to this thread while refueling my flame gun with Ka oil*

anyways...

The Borg have already demonstrated an inability to cope with organic technology in their battles with species 8472. Given that the Vong use organic technology, and that they can manage the destruction of SW ships, they should be able to tackle the Borg.

I suppose you forgot how Voyager helped the Borg adapt to Species 8472 and allow them to assimilate their bio technology?

After failing to do so for several months of attacks from Species 8472...

The point is, the Borg were not able to adapt. Without Voyager bumbling through the sector at that moment, they were looking at defeat by the 8-balls.

Now, let's consider the Vong. They have Dovim Basals that can strip the shields from a ship, stop and destroy projectiles (specifically proton torpedoes) in flight, and redirect or absorb energy weapons fire. Given the number of things that can stop a transporter beam, I'd be *highly* surprised if a Dovin Basal can't manage it. So, Borg boarding parties are out unless they can first kill the Dovin Basal on the Vong ship with weapons fire. For Vong planets you have the Yammosk and it's energy shield, as well as the planetary-defense sized versions of their "volcano guns." Borg drones have no resistance to KE attacks, which are exactly the sort of weapons the Vong employ. A Vong warrior with an ampistaff will go through Borg like a hot knife through butter. Yominn Karr gave Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade one hell of a fight: I'd love to see Borg drones that lurch along like something from Night of the Living Dead manage the same. One more Vong advantage: they can and do use tailored plagues (the one that Mara Jade was infected with for example.) Borg require their organic components: the Vong could kill them with biowarfare.

[Darth Servo]

I suppose you forgot how Voyager helped the Borg adapt to Species 8472 and allow them to assimilate their bio technology?

Assuming this isn't sarcasm, when did Voyager ever give the borg the nanoprobes? When did the borg ever adapt or assimilate 8472 tech. If they did assimilate it, why aren't they using it?

[Darth Wong]

I suppose you forgot how Voyager helped the Borg adapt to Species 8472 and allow them to assimilate their bio technology?

Actually, they never did assimilate a single S8472 or its ship. The Voyager nanoprobes destroyed S8472 ships. They didn't assimilate them (not that this matters since the Borg never got ahold of them anyway).

[Darth Servo]

Isn't it funny the way everytime a new technobabble gizmo appears on the show, Federation Cultists immediately assume everyone has one?

[Helm]

Oh well *L* whether it's sarcasm or not Servo, all's fair in war. and war is hell.

[Silver]

IIRC don't transporters function by directing some sort of particle beam to the target destination (hence the whole "beam me up" thing)? Wouldn't Dovin Bassal singularities be able to stop this?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Given magnetics and every other damn thing fucks them up, yeah.

But Darkling won't except it unless you prove extreme gravitational distortions, hyper-strong exotic bioarmor, reinforcing/defending force fields will stop transporting.

[Admiral Johnason]

As a side note, you people know that the Vong are going to get fucked in the ass now, right?

[Illuminatus Primus]

And this means the Borg, which are utterly stupid and a group of Army grunts could take in man-to-man combat.

The Borg will lose to the Vong merely because of Vong firepower and speed advantage.