McNamara, defense chief during Vietnam War, dies

[The Spartan]

Yahoo News

WASHINGTON – Robert S. McNamara, the cerebral secretary of defense who was vilified for carrying out the Vietnam War, then devoted himself to helping the world's poorest nations, died Monday. He was 93.

McNamara died at 5:30 a.m. at his home, his wife Diana told The Associated Press. She said he had been in failing health for some time.

For all his healing efforts, McNamara was fundamentally associated with the Vietnam War, "McNamara's war," the country's most disastrous foreign venture, the only American war to end in abject withdrawal rather than victory.

Known as a policymaker with a fixation for statistical analysis, McNamara was recruited to run the Pentagon by President John F. Kennedy in 1961 from the presidency of the Ford Motor Co. He stayed seven years, longer than anyone since the job's creation in 1947.

His association with Vietnam became intensely personal. Even his son, as a Stanford University student, protested against the war while his father was running it. At Harvard, McNamara once had to flee a student mob through underground utility tunnels. Critics mocked McNamara mercilessly; they made much of the fact that his middle name was "Strange."

After leaving the Pentagon on the verge of a nervous breakdown, McNamara became president of the World Bank and devoted evangelical energies to the belief that improving life in rural communities in developing countries was a more promising path to peace than the buildup of arms and armies.

A private person, McNamara for many years declined to write his memoirs, to lay out his view of the war and his side in his quarrels with his generals. In the early 1990s he began to open up. He told Time magazine in 1991 that he did not think the bombing of North Vietnam — the biggest bombing campaign in history up to that time — would work but he went along with it "because we had to try to prove it would not work, number one, and (because) other people thought it would work."

Finally, in 1993, after the Cold War ended, he undertook to write his memoirs because some of the lessons of Vietnam were applicable to the post-Cold War period "odd as though it may seem."

"In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam" appeared in 1995. McNamara disclosed that by 1967 he had deep misgivings about Vietnam — by then he had lost faith in America's capacity to prevail over a guerrilla insurgency that had driven the French from the same jungled countryside.

Despite those doubts, he had continued to express public confidence that the application of enough American firepower would cause the Communists to make peace. In that period, the number of U.S. casualties — dead, missing and wounded — went from 7,466 to over 100,000.

"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of our country. But we were wrong. We were terribly wrong," McNamara, then 78, told The Associated Press in an interview ahead of the book's release.

The best-selling mea culpa renewed the national debate about the war and prompted bitter criticism against its author. "Where was he when we needed him?" a Boston Globe editorial asked. A New York Times editorial referred to McNamara as offering the war's dead only a "prime-time apology and stale tears, three decades late."

McNamara wrote that he and others had not asked the five most basic questions: "Was it true that the fall of South Vietnam would trigger the fall of all Southeast Asia? Would that constitute a grave threat to the West's security? What kind of war — conventional or guerrilla — might develop? Could we win it with U.S. troops fighting alongside the South Vietnamese? Should we not know the answers to all these questions before deciding whether to commit troops?

He discussed similar themes in the 2003 documentary "The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara." With the U.S. in the first year of the war in Iraq, it became a popular and timely art-house attraction and won the Oscar for best documentary feature.

The Iraq war, with its similarities to Vietnam, at times brought up McNamara's name, in many cases in comparison with another unpopular defense secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld. McNamara was among former secretaries of defense and state who met twice with President Bush in 2006 to discuss Iraq war policies.

In the Kennedy administration, McNamara was a key figure in both the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion of April 1961 and the Cuban missile crisis 18 months later. The crisis was the closest the world came to a nuclear confrontation between the Soviet Union and the United States.

McNamara served as the World Bank president for 12 years. He tripled its loans to developing countries and changed its emphasis from grandiose industrial projects to rural development.

After retiring in 1981, he championed the causes of nuclear disarmament and aid by the richest nation for the world's poorest. He became a global elder statesman.

McNamara's trademarks were his rimless glasses and slicked down hair and his reliance on quantitative analysis to reach conclusions, calmly promulgated in a husky voice.

Another "celebrity" death. Though in this case I think he lived far longer than he deserved.

[White Haven]

And my first thought: 'Ooh, now Stuart gets to follow up on his 'place in Hell' throwaway scene in Armageddon!'

[Vympel]

Shep comment in 3 ... 2 ... 1

[Gandalf]

It's good to know that he got better since his days in the White House. I'm not sure whether his World Bank work can make up for his involvement in the Vietnam conflict.

As it stands, I have mixed feelings about the man.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Shep comment in 3 ... 2 ... 1

Sure he won't rush to the grave to spit on it?

[Atlan]

Shep comment in 3 ... 2 ... 1

Sure he won't rush to the grave to spit on it?

The McNamara family is sorry to disappoint Shep: No spitting allowed, but they're thinking about building a dance floor on top of the grave.

[MKSheppard]

McNamara's dead, woo hoo!

Now to find out where he's to be buried....

[K. A. Pital]

Every time an idiot dies, a candle lights up. Sigh. At least, he was a useful idiot. Still even as a Russian, I have little good to say about the man. "Missile gap" lie, didn't he consent to that lie of Kennedy's making? It prompted the spending on thousands of silos.

[Pelranius]

To be fair to McNamara, he probably wasn't the only one pushing the missile gap crap.

Still doesn't excuse his terminal stupidity and malice, though.

[Zed Snardbody]

I wish I had found out sooner! I'd have brought cake into work.

[Isolder74]

Here you go. Concept art for a mushroom cloud cake.

[Thanas]

To be honest, I think this vitrol is over the top. Unlike other persons who made mistakes, McNamara realized when he made them, apologized for them and tried the best he could to do good in the world.

[MKSheppard]

To be honest, I think this vitrol is over the top. Unlike other persons who made mistakes, McNamara realized when he made them, apologized for them and tried the best he could to do good in the world.

Screw McNamara. It's his idiocy that resulted in 58,000 deaths for NOTHING in the Vietnam War; even later in life he adamantly spoke about how he was "right" in standing up against the "warmongerers" like LeMay, who wanted to do in 1965, what Nixon eventually ordered in 1972 -- a full indiscriminate bombardment of all the key strategic points in the North Vietnamese industrial and transportation infrastructure; which led the North to actually come to the peace table and not bullshit -- it's kind of hard to fight Yankee Air Pirates when you have no SA-2s, you shot them all off, and can't get any more because the USAF blew up the raillines leading from China, and mined your harbors so heavily that nobody wants to send ships full of ammunition into them.

[Thanas]

Actually, from what memory serves, McNamara wanted to get out of Washington ASAP and regretted ever getting involved in there.

[fgalkin]

People pour vitriol on McNamara because it's fashionable. It's legitimately done in some circles who have come in contact with his policies, and some people who wish they were part of those circles do it to imitate them. It's the same as the fashion industry, people see a model on a catwalk, people want a dress like her's..

Most people who posted in this thread were not even alive when he was around, and found out about him in from a textbook. But, by bashing him on the Internet, they feel like they stand out from the faceless masses who have mostly forgotten his name. Makes them feel a part of an intellectual elite, and thus, special.

That, and internet toughguy-ism.

I doubt anyone here (except for maybe Stuart) really has any personal feelings towards the man- after all, they never met him or spoke with him, or tried to counteract his policies. But, they act like they do because it's a "cool" thing to do.

We have rules against that sort of thing, you know.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[MKSheppard]

Most people who posted in this thread were not even alive when he was around, and found out about him in from a textbook.

You mean such things as Vietnam Vets don't exist? Fuck, I've only had third-hand contact with Vietnam through teachers who were in Vietnam; but each time I start to read about the war; the sheer stupidity and idiocy of the Kennedy/Johnson Administrations in prosecuting the war makes me want to throw the book across the room.

[fgalkin]

Most people who posted in this thread were not even alive when he was around, and found out about him in from a textbook.

You mean such things as Vietnam Vets don't exist? Fuck, I've only had third-hand contact with Vietnam through teachers who were in Vietnam; but each time I start to read about the war; the sheer stupidity and idiocy of the Kennedy/Johnson Administrations in prosecuting the war makes me want to throw the book across the room.

Did we have any Vietnam vets post in this thread? Thank you for proving my point, Shep.

Frustration over an administration policy's usually does not equal personal dislike of the man. Granted, you might be the one exception to the rule, but for most people posting in the thread, it's just empty posturing.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Setzer]

I wonder why Stuart hasn't posted yet. It's not like him to tiptoe around his disgust for McNamara whenever the opportunity to vent his spleen arises..

[Force Lord]

Yeah, he was registered a moment ago. Maybe he's at a loss for words. There's so many things he could say and he may not know what would be appropiate.

[weemadando]

Possibly the only reason that I too am not firmly in the "Fuck McNamara" crowd.


That said, he is responsible for one of the worst chapters in Australia's history and it's legacy of racism, anti-military feeling, neglect of veterans and their serious mental and physical health issues.

And before fgalkin jumps in with his "no internet tough guy" shit, I personally know people who have been affected by all sides of this - Vietnamese refugees, Australian veterans and those who protested the war, hid draft dodgers etc.

The Vietnam War was a fucking travesty and the fact that McNamara was one of those directly responsible for it's ridiculous extension and mismanagement, you'll have to excuse me for being happy that someone who has brought such anguish into the lives of family, friends and those who I deal with on a daily basis at work has passed.

[Sea Skimmer]

Actually, from what memory serves, McNamara wanted to get out of Washington ASAP and regretted ever getting involved in there.

He’s alluded to being unhappy at times with the job, and outright said he wasn’t at all qualified for it… which is all the more reason to damn the idiot for not resigning when he clearly got in over his head. Another big reason to hate him is simply that he has refused to defend his own actions or even discuss them, and yet has never backed away from criticizing the decisions of everyone else around him for the last thirty years.

[Thanas]

Actually, from what memory serves, McNamara wanted to get out of Washington ASAP and regretted ever getting involved in there.

He’s alluded to being unhappy at times with the job, and outright said he wasn’t at all qualified for it… which is all the more reason to damn the idiot for not resigning when he clearly got in over his head. Another big reason to hate him is simply that he has refused to defend his own actions or even discuss them, and yet has never backed away from criticizing the decisions of everyone else around him for the last thirty years.

I have read at least three interviews with him in german newspapers in the last 9 years where he critizised several of his actions.

[Pelranius]

One of my major grinding points against him is the whole business with the Valkyrie bomber.

[Havok]

I agree with Thanas. This is a man that lived in times that are completely different from today, he did what he maybe thought was right and maybe thought were wrong. He acted out of a sense of duty and loyalty, as misguided as those may have been. As he aged, he did the best he could to make up for those mistakes in the best ways that he could and he admitted his failings and apologized for the mistakes he made and his poor decisions because of them.
Being happy for his death (celebrating it with cake?) is far over the top.

[MKSheppard]

He acted out of a sense of duty and loyalty, as misguided as those may have been..

Bullshit. What sense of duty and loyalty leads you to conclude that America is better off without ABM protection of it's cities?

Besides, the man was notorious for cooking the books to support whatever argument he was making.