Toilet seat Debate - What logical fallacies are used?

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I have to keep my toilet closed because I have an accident-prone cat. Really, once I went into the bathroom and raised the lid, then he ran into the room and jumped INTO the toilet.

In this case, what gets me is the looking. Do women not look at the place they're going to sit on a regular basis? If you don't want to sit in water, can't one devote the extra 3 watts of brain energy it takes to note 'oh, the seat is up' ? I try to leave the toilet in a 'safe' situation, but it seems to me that just like you should never assume there's not a pair of scissors on a chair, you should never assume a toilet seat is down.

I agree with Chewie here. It's a basic, really basic safety tip. I don't care if women raised in 'women dominated' households are conditioned to expect the seat to be down all the time, this applies to much more than just toilet seats. If you don't look where you're going to place a part of your body, you run the risk of encountering something harmful and/or unpleasant and have no one to blame but yourself. Don't look where you're stepping and you might miss a step and roll your ankle, or step barefoot on broken glass, or accidentally tread on an irritable rattlesnake. Don't look where you sit and you might miss the chair, sit on a splinter, sit in a puddle of spilled mayonnaise or fail to realize the toilet-seat is up.

I check for far more than just the seat being up anyways. Public bathrooms or private, occasionally things get left on the seat that I'd much rather not sit in. Hairs, droplets of urine or worse. Really, arguing that you're conditioned not to check where you're sitting is like arguing you're conditioned to look away from whatever you're scooping into your mouth. Yeah, it does occasionally happen, but when you accidentally get a mouthful of lint, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

[Sky Captain]

Wow, in last minutes I have learned more about other people toilet practices than in all my life. Personally I think it`s best to always lower the seat and the lid when you are done so everyone who comes next have to raise the lid and the seat if necessary, it also prevents from accidentally dropping your mobile phone/toothbrush in toilet bowl. In my house toilets always stay closed when not used it has at least twice saved my phone from falling in when I undress before showering.

[Akkleptos]

Personally I think it`s best to always lower the seat and the lid when you are done so everyone who comes next have to raise the lid and the seat if necessary, it also prevents from accidentally dropping your mobile phone/toothbrush in toilet bowl.

What kind of a bathroom do you have????

[Sky Captain]

Personally I think it`s best to always lower the seat and the lid when you are done so everyone who comes next have to raise the lid and the seat if necessary, it also prevents from accidentally dropping your mobile phone/toothbrush in toilet bowl.

What kind of a bathroom do you have????

In my bathroom a toilet bowl shower and sink are placed very close to each other (there is very little room) so if toilet bowl stay open it`s likely something can fall in while you clean your tooth/prepare to take a shower.

[Edi]

We have a pretty cramped toilet as well. That said, at my place the rule is simple: There are cats in the house, so the toilet seat and the lid stay down when not in use.

[andrewgpaul]

Another 'solution' to the problem is to install a Japanese-style cludgie - a hole in the floor. No seat to raise, there.

It's also possible to pee into a bowl with the seat down, if one leans far enough over so you don't need to arc it in. Mind you, depending on the design of the bog, this might not be practical

[Dooey Jo]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

[TheLostVikings]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

So if you sit down to do Nr.2 you have to quickly jump up and do a 180 if you need to do Nr.1 at the same time?

[Surlethe]

I know this topic isn't as serious as most, but I'm still watching for spam. Be warned.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

So if you sit down to do Nr.2 you have to quickly jump up and do a 180 if you need to do Nr.1 at the same time?

Don't be daft. #2 generally involves some #1 (this is occasionally referred to as #3), and you sit because it either alternates or all goes off at the same time.

[PeZook]

New toilets can only use a maximum of 1.6 gallons per flush (about 5-6 liters), and some models use even less. So we're slowly moving towards a more ecologically sound flush method. There is not requirement, however, to remove old toilets until they actually require replacement. So, for example, at the home I'm helping to rehab we had a "bathtub" toilet installed in 1946, when the house was built, but the one upstairs had a cracked tank and needed to be replaced, so it's a new one that only uses 1.6 gallons per flush.

We're years ahead of you!

My toilet can flush practically anything with just 3 litres of water. It uses violent pressure instead of volume.

For those truly nasty situations, you can press the "special overkill" button to flush all six liters in one giant Niagara Falls impression.

It's unlike anybody can make it better, though, save for some radically new approach to the very problem of waste disposal.

[Broomstick]

Well, yes, Europe would be ahead of the US - Europe has been dealing with relatively dense populations and their resulting sewer issues for centuries. The US, on the other hand, in most places has abundant fresh water supplies and lower population densities. While there have been some problems with the largest cities (Chicago reversed the flow of the Chicago River to deal with cholera and typhoid, as an example) in most places we've had water to waste - at least until recently. Except in desert areas the issue simply hasn't been as pressing.

[sketerpot]

A simple workaround is to paint the toilet seat green on top, red on bottom. That way its position will be obvious to even the most militantly unobservant. No more falling in.

There's an interesting parallel to this argument in computer programming. In of of the programming languages there's a function that lets you parse text by isolating individual words. It identifies words by the spaces between them, but by changing a global variable you can also break down text using say dashes or periods as separators. For instance, if you wanted to parse an web address like bbs.stardestroyer.net you'd use a period rather than a space for the separator.

The argument is over whether or not a programmer should set the global variable back to space if he has changed it to something else given that the majority of the time text would be parsed using spaces. Now a real good point is you can never assume a global variable holds a specific value as anything in the program can change that variable so you either need to check the value before hand, or just change it to the desired value directly before using it.

The general consensus is that while it is considerate to set the variable back to the default value, it is still your responsibility to check or set the variable before using it.

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard, right up there with the stuff on The Daily WTF. Why the hell would you pass the delimiter with a global variable instead of passing it as an argument to the function? This is the whole reason we even have local scope. Didn't you realize how completely and irredeemably messed up this design is? Please tell me what programming language this is, so that I can avoid it. Or at least laugh at it.

[Themightytom]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

Sometimes i want to finish a book?

[Vendetta]

It's also possible to sit down and pee. It's radical, but it might just work.

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

Sometimes i want to finish a book?

Surely there are more comfortable ways to support your ass whilst you read. In, piss, wash, out.

[Darth Wong]

Sober men in good health don't sit down to pee.

We just don't.

Sometimes i want to finish a book?

Surely there are more comfortable ways to support your ass whilst you read. In, piss, wash, out.

Read between the lines. He's clearly suffering from chronic constipation.

[Oskuro]

In this case, what gets me is the looking. Do women not look at the place they're going to sit on a regular basis? If you don't want to sit in water, can't one devote the extra 3 watts of brain energy it takes to note 'oh, the seat is up' ?

Today I thought about this whole thread because, even though there was no nasty consequence, I did sit without even checking the lid. Why? Because I really HAD TO GO. I very much doubt anyone, be it man or woman, will have the patience to check for details when it's GO TIME.

[Broomstick]

A simple workaround is to paint the toilet seat green on top, red on bottom. That way its position will be obvious to even the most militantly unobservant. No more falling in.

Um..... I'm colorblind.

Yeah, yeah, I know - pick any other two colors and it will still work...

[Themightytom]

Sometimes i want to finish a book?

Surely there are more comfortable ways to support your ass whilst you read. In, piss, wash, out.

Read between the lines. He's clearly suffering from chronic constipation.

damn you fiber bars.... and damn me for loving you....

[Stuart]

Today I thought about this whole thread because, even though there was no nasty consequence, I did sit without even checking the lid. Why? Because I really HAD TO GO. I very much doubt anyone, be it man or woman, will have the patience to check for details when it's GO TIME.

You'll learn patience - and never sit down without looking again - the day you look do down and see a cobra in the pan. I've got the pictures if you want to see them
(ps get bitten under these circumstances and, when it comes to sucking the poison out, you'll really find out who your friends are).

[CaptainChewbacca]

Today I thought about this whole thread because, even though there was no nasty consequence, I did sit without even checking the lid. Why? Because I really HAD TO GO. I very much doubt anyone, be it man or woman, will have the patience to check for details when it's GO TIME.

You'll learn patience - and never sit down without looking again - the day you look do down and see a cobra in the pan. I've got the pictures if you want to see them
(ps get bitten under these circumstances and, when it comes to sucking the poison out, you'll really find out who your friends are).

You never know what Stuart's going to contribute when he posts, but its ALWAYS good.

[wautd]

Put it up

When it's to be kept down:
woman: 0 actions required (since it'll already be down)
man: Put the lid up, and put it back down again after he's done: 2 actions

When it's up:
woman: put the lid down: 1 action required
man: put the lid up again: 1 action required

Fair's fair

[Akkleptos]

Put it up

When it's to be kept down:
woman: 0 actions required (since it'll already be down)
man: Put the lid up, and put it back down again after he's done: 2 actions

When it's up:
woman: put the lid down: 1 action required
man: put the lid up again: 1 action required

Fair's fair

Speaking of logical fallacies, as per the OP:

This arrangement fails to consider how often men and women go to the bathroom in one day, what they do there (#1 or #2), how many males and females share the bathroom... Meaning the issue may not be as clean-cut for some households e. g. more women, more actions, for example.

[LaCroix]

Put it up

When it's to be kept down:
woman: 0 actions required (since it'll already be down)
man: Put the lid up, and put it back down again after he's done: 2 actions

When it's up:
woman: put the lid down: 1 action required
man: put the lid up again: 1 action required

Fair's fair

Speaking of logical fallacies, as per the OP:

This arrangement fails to consider how often men and women go to the bathroom in one day, what they do there (#1 or #2), how many males and females share the bathroom... Meaning the issue may not be as clean-cut for some households e. g. more women, more actions, for example.

And you are forgetting that the woman doesn't have to put it down again if the man wasn't in there between. So if she goes more often, the seat IS already down on each extra time, so 0 additional cost occur.