Children of earth Dilemma (spoilers for Torchwood)

[Bedlam]

For those of you who haven't seen the rather excellent Torchwood mini series thats been showing each night this week the majority of the 4th episode was based on a rather interesting and unconfitable discussion.

An alien turns up and requests it be given 10% of the children on the planet or it will kill every human on the planet. The authorities caved rather quickly but then came up the discussion on how to select the 10%.

If you were given the job by your country of selecting which 10% of your countries children to give to the alien. How would you decide? Would you do it randomly? If you set criteria what would they be? Oldest, youngest, richest, poorest, smartest, stupidest? Would their be any group you would not select. If you have children yourself would you exempt them from the selection.

You can choose to just say no but that would just put the problem into someone else's lap.

Discuss.

[Serafina]

Basically, i would go by a random approach.

However, i would limit it to children as young as possible.
Why? Well, if we look at it pragmatically, it is less resource demanding. An older child already represents some kind of "investion" - more so than a younger one.
From a social side, it is also easier for the parents if the child is young. We have already seen this in times of high infant mortality - you just have more of a connection the older the child is.

However, i would NOT implement some kind of "pick the sick ones first". While this may see tempting resource-wise (to some, at least) it would severely worse the acceptation of handicapped people and similar groups.

However, if the definition of "children" is broad enough, it may be feasible to use it as a source of punishment (if they are older than, say, 14). This would be a rather difficult decision if it is a death sentence, but quite feasible if they are not killed.

If the children are actually treated well, i would "supply" them with orphans and children who had to be taken from their families. If it is not an acutall punishment for the children, thats better than splitting intact families.

I would absolutely hate doing so, but if it is necessary, this solution is better than the other way round.

Oh, an important question: What happens to the children? Are they killed? Tortured? Or just taken away and allowed to live somewhere else? Under what conditions? Are they used as hostages?

[Samuel]

Can it tell the difference between children and midgets? What is the age range for children?

However, I would NOT implement some kind of "pick the sick ones first". While this may see tempting resource-wise (to some, at least) it would severely worse the acceptation of handicapped people and similar groups.

I don't think that is going to be a problem we care about.

[Serafina]

Can it tell the difference between children and midgets? What is the age range for children?

However, I would NOT implement some kind of "pick the sick ones first". While this may see tempting resource-wise (to some, at least) it would severely worse the acceptation of handicapped people and similar groups.

I don't think that is going to be a problem we care about.

Well, i care about it. (And thou must respect my autoritey!! /cartman voice - after all, we are supposed to be leaders here )

The absolute maximum i would be willing to allow is picking those who are beyond rescue - those who are going to die soon anyway (if it is allowed, of course).
But picking them for any other disease, no matter how crippling it may be, is the same as killing them yourself (unless they are not killed).
Of course, if they are treated well, it may actually offer them access to better medical treatment. In this case, i would allow for volunteers. Heck, as long as the children are treated well, i would allow for "monitored volunteering" (preventing possible misuse) for everyone.

[Bedlam]

However, if the definition of "children" is broad enough, it may be feasible to use it as a source of punishment (if they are older than, say, 14). This would be a rather difficult decision if it is a death sentence, but quite feasible if they are not killed.

Oh, an important question: What happens to the children? Are they killed? Tortured? Or just taken away and allowed to live somewhere else? Under what conditions? Are they used as hostages?

Going by the series the definition of Child seems to be pre-pubesent, one child may have been left behind because he was slightly more developed than his peers. The Aliens say the children they take will have an increased life span and will not be hurt but one child has been seen fused to the Alien so their definition of not hurt may differ from ours.

[NecronLord]

If it's the exact situation there, I say flat no, fuckit. Species suicide.

Once I know what it wants them for (living drugs), I have every reason to believe it'll be back, over and over again, if it gets one fix it will come back for another. Better the species die quickly, than slowly.

For those that follow the series, my answer is two words: Osterhagen Key - I'd rather we all die quickly and cleanly than (eventually) our entire species being farmed for our descendants to become subjects of unending torture.

Also - C4 on the glass of the alien ambassador's tank. It shall be the first to die.

[NecronLord]

Oh, an important question: What happens to the children? Are they killed? Tortured? Or just taken away and allowed to live somewhere else? Under what conditions? Are they used as hostages?

They are operated on and kept immortal, silent and immobile as symbiotic recreational drug producers for the aliens.

The aliens do not keep this secret from the characters - they didn't bother to ask until episode five - I see no reason you needn't know in this thread when making your decision.

[Bedlam]

Well I hadn't seem episode 5 when I created the thread (still havn't I'll probably catch it on i-player tomorrow). However, I'm more interested in the situation in episode 4 when the government had decided to capitulate and was deciding how to choose the kids they were handing over the alien without knowing exact what it wanted them for (although they knew it probably wasn't great).

Given what they want them there might be more reason to just let them wipe us all out however, where there is life there's hope. If it's another 40 years before they come back or even 20 we might have the technology to deal with them then, if we're all dead thats it no chance of doing anything.

[Simon_Jester]

I can see the appeal of building up to a tech level at which we can get a piece of the aliens rather than blowing ourselves up.

[NecronLord]

I can see the appeal of building up to a tech level at which we can get a piece of the aliens rather than blowing ourselves up.

I can see dozens of ways to defeat them that are better than mass suicide

For a start, they live in the Doctor Who setting, and didn't even try to call the aforementioned Time Lord, who probably would have defeated this lot out in ten minutes.

Similarly, there's at least one universal law enforcement agency with guns and technology far beyond anything these jokers show.

Still, the choices as presented are 'capitulate' or 'die' and that's the point of the thread, ne?

[Bedlam]

Still, the choices as presented are 'capitulate' or 'die' and that's the point of the thread, ne?

Well the original point was how would you select 10% of the children to give to the Alien, its more of less viered off of that into would you give it any

[dragon]

Except doesn't the Torchwood people have knowledge of the Shadow Procolamation, after all Jack is part of Torchwood and he knows.

[Stark]

Torchwood has been a joke since Canary Wharf; the show YOU JUST WATCHED was full of people sneering at Torchwood.

The osterhagen stupid crap is fuckng retarded and NL is a retard for even suggesting it.

[NecronLord]

Torchwood has been a joke since Canary Wharf; the show YOU JUST WATCHED was full of people sneering at Torchwood.

Which is... lame. What was that actually a response to? Almost everyone I've spoken to about the show - you included, last I checked - would like Torchwood to stop being such a hive of suck and fail, pull their trousers up, hire some new staff, and become half way competant. There's no reason they couldn't have done that in this series. (Indeed, at the end I was seriously expecting Agent Johnson and her staff to join Torchwood, and duly disappointed when they didn't).

The osterhagen stupid crap is fuckng retarded and NL is a retard for even suggesting it.

Eheh heh heh heh.

Yes it is retarded - at least from a technical perspective - from a story perspectice, contriving a way to commit species suicide strikes me as eminently sensible after what, fifty narrowly avoided alien invasions in as many years. Of course, being Dr Who, it's far from the most retarded thing in the series. It's substantially less retarded than a lot of stuff in Torchwood, too. I'm looking at you, 'son of the beast' buried under Cardiff.