Being a Bikie in Australia is like...

[weemadando]

...being a black under apartheid
...being a Jew in Nazi Germany

Sure. Yup. I've been exposed to a lot of bikie culture and there are some, and I mean some as in few, not many, rare, clubs that don't exist solely for the purposes of criminal enterprise. But they are few and fucking far between. And no matter how much of a PR campaign they want to lay out there, the simple fact is that these clubs (the one's that are getting nailed with the "Criminal Organisation" tags) are the ones that continue to exist because of their criminal activity.

Bikies 'treated like persecuted Jews'
AAP
July 10, 2009 01:28pm



BIKIES have compared themselves with persecuted Jews and victims of South Africa's apartheid in a video protesting against new anti-bikie laws.

Following a fatal bikie brawl at Sydney Airport in March, NSW and South Australia have enacted laws that allow bikie gangs to be declared criminal organisations.

Membership can also be prosecuted as a criminal offence.

Western Australia, Queensland, Tasmania, the Northern Territory, Victoria and the ACT intend to implement similar laws in a national push to outlaw criminal bikie gangs.

Bikies have responded with a website aimed at breaking down "some of the negative stereotypes about motorcycle clubs and members".

The United Motorcycle Council of NSW provides clubs and individuals "with an avenue for dispute resolution", a statement on the council's website reads.

Bikies appearing in a video on the website liken the new anti-bikie laws to injustices suffered by victims of Nazi Germany and apartheid in South Africa.

At the start of the video the words "Freedom is not what someone gives you, it's what no one can take away from you" appear against haunting background music.

The words are attributed to Ramsey Clark, former US attorney-general.

Another line follows: "Unless you're the Government."

A shot of a globe, highlighting Nuremberg, Germany appears next, followed by a small group of disgruntled looking bikies staring at the camera.

Some have their arms folded, others have their hands in their jean pockets.

"In 1935 Germany passed the Nuremberg law which denied Jewish people to associate with their friends and work with some professions," a bikie decked in sunglasses and a baseball hat says.

The scene is followed by a shot of a globe featuring South Africa.

"In 1948 in South Africa apartheid was introduced," says a broad-shouldered balding bikie.

"The Government made it illegal for declared individuals to meet, even in the privacy of their own home."

In Australia, another bikie says: "You can be branded a criminal just by talking to declared people, even if you haven't committed a crime."

A bikie with heavily tattooed forearms says, "I thought I lived in a country where I wasn't discriminated against because of the colour of my skin."

Police Minister Tony Kelly says the NSW laws are aimed at people "who are heavily involved in drug dealing, and a whole host of other crimes".

"But if there's any other criminal gang out there that is involved in those sorts of activities, then they can be targeted under this legislation as well," he said.

"The legislation is specifically designed.

"It's not a group of three people who stand together and have a chat somewhere, you've got to be assembling for the purpose of conducting or intending to conduct criminal activity that will bring with it a jail term of up to seven years.

"Anybody who is not involved has no reason to be fearful of these new laws. If you are involved, then be very fearful."

[LadyTevar]

Wow... Like the Hells Angels in the 1960s-70s.

[mingo]

I'm just trying to imagine what an American Harley rider would do if I refered to him as a "Bikie"

[CaptainChewbacca]

Yeah.... BIKIE? That's asking to get your ass kicked here in the US. "Look out, its a badass BIKIE!"

[White Haven]

I'll admit that was my first reaction...Bikie? That's the best they've got?

[Lusankya]

Well, I know that the SA law is being tested for its constitutionality. The media spin on that one has been consistently describing the legislation as making it illegal to associate with a known member of a bikie gang.

This was the initial argument against the anti-bikie laws:

Amendments to tough SA anti-bikie laws
June 17, 2009

Amendments to South Australia's controversial anti-bikie laws will be presented to state parliament on Wednesday.

The Australian Democrats' sole remaining parliamentarian, David Winderlich, says he will present amendments to what he calls draconian laws.

The Rann government last year passed laws which in effect ban bikie club members from associating.

The government has initially used the laws on the Finks bikie club, declaring it a criminal organisation and seeking control orders on several Finks in the courts.

But Mr Winderlich says the laws are a threat to people who innocently associated with the bikies.

"Under current anti-association laws, it's illegal... to meet, phone or email a relative who is a member of an outlawed organisation," Mr Winderlich said in a statement on Wednesday.

"The police are arresting bikies almost every day with existing laws, they don't need these draconian new powers."

I'm not too sure how much the legislation has changed, but the main thing seems to be that there's some concern that it violates freedom of association. After all, bikies may be shitpieces and criminals in general, but there's shouldn't be anything wrong with just being friends with them.

Looking at the text of the law (pdf of the text), this:

(1) A person who associates, on not less than 6 occasions during a period of 12 months,
with a person who is—
(a) a member of a declared organisation; or
(b) the subject of a control order,
is guilty of an offence.
Maximum penalty: Imprisonment for 5 years.

and

(11) For the purposes of this section—
(a) a person may associate with another person by any means including
communicating with that person by letter, telephone or facsimile or by email
or other electronic means;

is the bit that people are up in arms about. The law explicitly makes exceptions for family, workmates, classmates and so on, but acquaintances and friends..

I do have no idea what this means, though:

(2) A person does not commit an offence against subsection (1) unless, on each occasion
on which it is alleged that the person associated with another, the person knew that the
other was—
(a) a member of a declared organisation; or
(b) a person the subject of a control order,
or was reckless as to that fact.

What does "reckless as to that fact" mean, exactly in this context?


As for why we say "bikie", such diminutives are common in Australian English: we take the first syllable of the word and then and an "ie" or an "o" to the end. There was a similar reaction when people heard about our no-pokies MP (slot machines = poker machines, so if you take the first syllable and add an "ie" to the end, you get "pokie" or "pokies" for the plural).

[Phantasee]

What does it mean to be subject to a control order? What is a control order?

[weemadando]

Control Orders

Division 104 of the Criminal Code sets out the control order regime.

Control orders are protective measures akin to domestic apprehended violence orders that allow controls to be placed on the movements and activities of people who pose a terrorist risk to the community.

An application for a control order can be initiated by the AFP but requires the consent of the Attorney-General.

The orders are issued by a court.

The legislation requires that each and every one of the obligations, prohibitions and restrictions to be imposed on a person by an order must be reasonably necessary, and reasonably appropriate and adapted, for the purpose of protecting the public from a terrorist act. When determining whether to impose each of the obligations, prohibitions and restrictions on the person, the court must take into account their impact on the person’s circumstances, including the person’s financial and personal circumstances. In addition there are a number of protective safeguards on the issuing of a control order:

* The request must provide an explanation as to why each of the obligations, prohibitions and restrictions should be imposed on the person.
* An interim control order can be made in the absence of the person who is the subject of the order to prevent tipping off.
* The court can list a confirmation hearing where the person who is subject to the order may attend the court and make representations on their behalf.
* The control order does not come into effect until the person is notified and must not last linger than 12 months.
* The person can apply for the order to be varied, revoked or declared void as soon as the person is notified that an order is confirmed.
* The person and their lawyer are able to obtain a copy of the order which contains the summary of the grounds for the order.
* Normal judicial review processes apply to decisions to issue or revoke control orders.
* Control orders will not apply to people under 16 and apply in a modified way to people between 16 and 18.
* Each year, the Attorney-General must report to Parliament on the operation of control orders.

Provisions for control orders will sunset after 10 years and will be reviewed by the Council of Australian Governments after five years.

[Ford Prefect]

Guys, this is nothing. My own father was actually in the news once because he likened being a pit bull owner to being a Jew during the Holocaust. He even made a Star of David and held it up during his speech.

Also, isn't it amazing how other countries actually have different connotations of words than Americans do? Jesus Christ guys.

[Darth Wong]

Why are so many bikers fat?

Whenever I see pictures of bikers, they're all a bunch of lard-asses. That's not to say they're not dangerous (they have numbers, maybe weapons, and sheer size does present a certain threat on its own in a physical confrontation), but come on, they always look like a bunch of fatties playing Tough Guy Dress-up.

[CaptainChewbacca]

They're older guys who spend most of their time either sleeping or sitting down. They don't exercise much, and they don't eat healthy.

[Spyder]

Why are so many bikers fat?

Whenever I see pictures of bikers, they're all a bunch of lard-asses. That's not to say they're not dangerous (they have numbers, maybe weapons, and sheer size does present a certain threat on its own in a physical confrontation), but come on, they always look like a bunch of fatties playing Tough Guy Dress-up.

Criminal activities aside, their lives consist of drinking, biking and sleeping. Sometimes they multitask.

[weemadando]

Why are so many bikers fat?

Whenever I see pictures of bikers, they're all a bunch of lard-asses. That's not to say they're not dangerous (they have numbers, maybe weapons, and sheer size does present a certain threat on its own in a physical confrontation), but come on, they always look like a bunch of fatties playing Tough Guy Dress-up.

A fantastic quote from the book Angels of Death:
"I love arresting bikers, they're too fat to run and too slow to fight." - attributed to a Dutch SWAT officer.

[FSTargetDrone]

As for why we say "bikie", such diminutives are common in Australian English: we take the first syllable of the word and then and an "ie" or an "o" to the end. There was a similar reaction when people heard about our no-pokies MP (slot machines = poker machines, so if you take the first syllable and add an "ie" to the end, you get "pokie" or "pokies" for the plural).

Hee. Speaking of "pokie" or rather "pokey" in the US, if we say, "Soandso is in the pokey," (pronounced the same, I assume) it means he's in jail.

[Aaron]

Why are so many bikers fat?

Whenever I see pictures of bikers, they're all a bunch of lard-asses. That's not to say they're not dangerous (they have numbers, maybe weapons, and sheer size does present a certain threat on its own in a physical confrontation), but come on, they always look like a bunch of fatties playing Tough Guy Dress-up.

A big part of is that when they go on rides (I mean the big ones with dozens of guys through the back roads) they stop at the greasy spoon type dinners rather then Mr. Sub and always order the most gravy laden biggest platter they can find.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Why are so many bikers fat?

Beer, and lots of it

[The Yosemite Bear]

As the next door neighbors of a bunch of Gypsy Jokers back in the 70s, dining habits would be classic McD's, Pot, Crank, Beer, more beer, Sugar, etc.

This combined with lack of real exercise besides fucking girls who are too young to know better.

[hongi]

As for why we say "bikie", such diminutives are common in Australian English: we take the first syllable of the word and then and an "ie" or an "o" to the end. There was a similar reaction when people heard about our no-pokies MP (slot machines = poker machines, so if you take the first syllable and add an "ie" to the end, you get "pokie" or "pokies" for the plural).

Stevo, Bazza (Barry), Jonno, footy being other examples...