Which is better overall

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-02-09 09:43pm

"I'm KJA. I'm too much of a hack to come up with a story in a universe with Jedi Knights, a galactic civil war, mile long battleships, and a moon-sized planet busting battlestation. I think I'll make an uber-invincible fighter-sized ship that blows up stars." <wank-wank-wankity-wank-wank>

"I'm Rick Berman. I'm too much of a hack to come up with a story in a universe with dozens of alien races, hundreds of unsolved mysteries leftover from TOS, remnants of long-dead civilizations, 600 meter long explorer ships that can travel 1000 times the speed of light, and Jim-Goddamn-Kirk. I think I'll make a missile that can blow up stars. Brannon! I've aroused myself! Service me!"

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-09 09:50pm

Shinova wrote:Off-topic:

What would instigating instantaneous and complete fusion reaction of all the hydrogen in a star do?

Really big explosion. Good thing it happens to be physically impossible.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-09 09:57pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:I would like to compare the Sun Crusher's torp to the trilithium torp to see which one is better. Both have their storng points, the Sun Crusher's being that it can be used on more than just a star and could be easier to produce, while the trilithium causes the reaction to occur at a faster pace. Can someone help me out here?

I think the resonance torpedoes were more expensive, but layered w/ the crystalline quantum armor that the Sun Crusher was (to penetrate into the star), so they'll survive defensive fire.

The trilithium torps could be shot down.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-09 09:59pm

SirNitram wrote:Hence why I prefer the Centerpoint repulsor(Think about it: It doesn't set off a supernova, just mimics the last stage of the star collapsing inwards. even then, you have weeks before it actually goes off BANG).

Exactly.

It just causes an Eta Carina style burp of a star.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-09 10:24pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Hence why I prefer the Centerpoint repulsor(Think about it: It doesn't set off a supernova, just mimics the last stage of the star collapsing inwards. even then, you have weeks before it actually goes off BANG).
Exactly.

It just causes an Eta Carina style burp of a star.

While not a true Supernova, it tends to fuck up everyone and everything in the system. And isn't (as) questionable as the Suncrusher.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-09 10:47pm

Exactly how does the Centerpoint repulsar cause a sun to go nova?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-09 10:58pm

Something to do with compressing the star's core, which doesn't happen normally except for giant stars. And I thought the lag between firing Centerpoint and the detonation was merely hours.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-10 09:43am

As far as I know KJA has nothing whatever to do with the Children of Dune miniseries (and I hope it stays that way!).

After his "success" in pissing of fanboys and fostering brainbugs in the SW arena, he's teamed up with Frank Herbert's son to co-write the new Dune prequel book series (four books so far).

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-11 03:56pm

Nooooo!!!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-11 03:59pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Something to do with compressing the star's core, which doesn't happen normally except for giant stars. And I thought the lag between firing Centerpoint and the detonation was merely hours.

It was enough time for Rogue Squadron to do alot of evacuating, so I dunno. I do know it does it by mimicing the last stage in Nova: Compression of the core.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2003-02-11 07:27pm

I would think the Sun Crusher's resonance torps are more sophisticated. They can cause a low mass star to Supernova. All a Trilithium weapon does is stop fusion within a star resulting in a level 12 shockwave. It also doesn't resemble the characteristics of a supernova, there more energy released than what was seen onscreen in Generations and a Supernova beginning is much much more than the total ceasation of nuclear fusion.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-13 03:27am

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I would think the Sun Crusher's resonance torps are more sophisticated. They can cause a low mass star to Supernova. All a Trilithium weapon does is stop fusion within a star resulting in a level 12 shockwave. It also doesn't resemble the characteristics of a supernova, there more energy released than what was seen onscreen in Generations and a Supernova beginning is much much more than the total ceasation of nuclear fusion.

A Level 12 shockwave shatters planets. Veridian III disintegrated when hit (IIRC), so it absorbed a hell of a lot of energy. Of course we have no idea how far it was from the star thanks to the infamous missile-to-star time goof. (A few light-seconds? Then how come Picard and Soran aren't melting? An AU? How did the light from the collapse reach them so quickly?)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-13 03:29am

Supernova weapons are bad sci-fi, plain and simple. There's no way around that.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-14 01:56am

Darth Wong wrote:Supernova weapons are bad sci-fi, plain and simple. There's no way around that.

Yea, lets keep it to planet destroying super lasers, black hole generators, and mass lightening, all of which are mroe realistic then Supernova weapons. Oh wait..........

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-14 02:04am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Supernova weapons are bad sci-fi, plain and simple. There's no way around that.
Yea, lets keep it to planet destroying super lasers, black hole generators, and mass lightening, all of which are mroe realistic then Supernova weapons. Oh wait..........

Yes and those make more sense then the utter bullshit sci-fi wanking it requires for the nova weapon to work.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-02-14 02:47am

Admiral Johnason wrote:Nooooo!!!

Avoid the Dune prequels if you love the originals. For instance, does the idea of R.M. Mohaim being revealed as Jessica's real mother appeal to you?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-14 07:51pm

Nooo! I was going to read those after I finished the original series.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-15 09:49am

KJA is also reported to have made a massive fuck up over at the X-Files. I know several fanatics of the show and even rabid fans like them couldn't read the pissy books. Does KJA have something against Sci-Fi and he's determined to fuck with every franchise before he dies or something. Quick get him the number for Paramount.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-15 10:56am

Eframepilot wrote:A Level 12 shockwave shatters planets. Veridian III disintegrated when hit (IIRC), so it absorbed a hell of a lot of energy. Of course we have no idea how far it was from the star thanks to the infamous missile-to-star time goof. (A few light-seconds? Then how come Picard and Soran aren't melting? An AU? How did the light from the collapse reach them so quickly?)

The trilithium device was mounted on a missile which appeared to quickly reach low-orbit when it engaged warp to enter the star.

I'd attribute it to speeding up of what actually happened, just like the slow-mo attributed to Luke's torpedoes entering the Death Star.

The trilithium device, to our knowledge, just generates a shockwave of unknown nature capable of breaking up Earth-sized planets probably an AU out. This is associated with the somehow-ceasation of all nuclear fusion in a star as well as suddenly blocking most radiation leaving and cooling the star's outer layers (?). These planets were unshielded. We have no evidence of subsequent shockwaves or of the star's mass being heavily dispersed. The affect was not observed on any star dessimilar to Sol. For all we know the star reactivates after the shockwave affect without much change.

The Sun Crusher's resonance torpedoes are likely indestructable by normal means (IIRC, they're coated with a thinner layer of the quantum crystalline armor which allowed them to penetrate deep into a star), and also engage FTL or quite high near-C velocities (likely a low-grade hyperdrive) to reach a star very quickly. It then penetrates deep into a star apparently at significant percentages of C (again attributed to the short launch-to-detonation time) and detonates. The device at the core of the resonance torpedo appears to be a matter desintegrator similar to the Galaxy Gun's missile's warheads, but is capable of operating with stellar plasma, not simply terrestrial rock. In fact, the high density Death Star prototype could not sustain the desintegrator's function when Kyp Durron fired the torpedoes at its structure. The desintegration of the star rapidly generates a radiation pulse and a shockwave capable of tearing through the shields of a key Imperial world (Carida) and instantly scraping clean the crust of that world. Subsequent shockwaves completely desintegrated Carida. Significant amounts of the star's mass were rapidly dispersed throughout the system. Residual stellar mass from the detonation was sufficient to foul the Millenium Falcon's sensors (IIRC) in Champions of the Force. The affect was observed on a main sequence yellow star similar to the sun, a whole cluster of blue supergiant stars, and even a red dwarf.

The trilithium device would be ideal for ambushing starships at some roundezvous point around an AU or two from a sun-sized star. From launch to detonation it is only several minutes at most. However, I have doubts it would operate in any star or be very affective against targets (esp. hardened targets) a light-hour out. The trilithium device's delivery mechanism observed in Generations is capable of being intercepted. The trilithium device's delivery system did not appear exotic in the least and is likely capable of being mounted on most starships with little difficulty. The device itself was implied in Generations to be easily manufactured once one knew the "secret" Soran knew.

The resonance torpedoes allow for escape time quite easily, and display warnings of imminent detonation in the form of detectable stellar disturbances several minutes before the detonation would reach the detecting individual.

However, resonance torpedoes are ultimately more destructive and more flexable than trilithium devices. They have superior range (Sun Crusher being able to fire a full cluster of torpedoes against an entire cluster so they would detonate more or less simultaneously), they are capable of targeting ships and planets and space stations with significant devestation, and they are affective against stars across the spectrum. I believe they'd easily destroy all targets, including hardened ones, within a system. They required a unique delivery system, but the launcher did not appear to be the costly/high-technological development of the Sun Crusher Weapon System. Rather, the torpedoes themselves and the unique design and armor of the Sun Crusher were the unique concepts. I believe the resonance torpedoes would be easily fired from most starships, however, I believe it would require effort and high cost to actually manufacture the torpedoes.

I believe the resonance torpedo is the best overall weapon.

However the resonance torpedo makes a better weapon from a military standpoint, due to the rapid action and ease of manufacturing/delivery of the trilithium device, I believe it would make an ideal terrorist weapon.

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Which is better overall

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