Dr. Who differernt realities

[dragon]

Quick question. When about the Doctor left Rose in the alternate universe he had mentioned before that several differrent universes had they're versions of Cybermen. So do the different universes have their own version of Daleks and Timelords?

[PREDATOR490]

I'm guessing the answer is no since the Doctor said jumping between realities was easy when the Timelords were still around but the capability to do so died with them. Then again, the Doctor has been shown to be wrong before so maybe there are realities that he hasnt been to with Timelords and Daleks.s

[Stark]

Since you're the king of stupid questions, I'll answer this one with one of my own.

If there's no Doctor in Pete's World, why does Torchwood exist? Was it founded by Queen Victoria? Was it due to events at a Torchwood House in Scotland? Were these events centred around an alien werewolf? What is their primary mission, beyond 'nick alien shit'?

[dragon]

Since you're the king of stupid questions, I'll answer this one with one of my own.

If there's no Doctor in Pete's World, why does Torchwood exist? Was it founded by Queen Victoria? Was it due to events at a Torchwood House in Scotland? Were these events centred around an alien werewolf? What is their primary mission, beyond 'nick alien shit'?

Bah no such thing as a stupid question only a unanswered one.
Beside having not seen all the episodes I had no idea that the Queen had troched wood built cause of the doctor.

[NecronLord]

Quick question. When about the Doctor left Rose in the alternate universe he had mentioned before that several differrent universes had they're versions of Cybermen. So do the different universes have their own version of Daleks and Timelords?

At least one alternate timeline including daleks has been shown, but that's their own creation via temporal fuckery.

Spinoff media has several alternate timelines with daleks.

Now, if the Time Lords' (and in the godawful Journey's End, the Daleks) power is what allows interdimensional travel, that implies that there are no alternate timeline Time Lords or Daleks that have chosen to re-enable interdimensional travel anywhere.

Of course, in Who, an alternate timeline appears to be quite special, not just one of an infinite number representing every possible change.

[Batman]

Of course, in Who, an alternate timeline appears to be quite special, not just one of an infinite number representing every possible change.

From my admittedly limited understanding, Dr Who treats timelines quite different than we're used to from, say Star Trek. There apparently is a lot of wiggle room in how a timeline plays out as long as certain key events (the rise of the 4th great and bountiful human Empire, the death of Pompeii, Jack Harkness NOT becoming immortal) happen. 'Fixed events' I think Tennant's Doctor called them. Which is why when those events DON'T happen (or do when they shouldn't), or don't happen the WAY they were supposed to, the Doctor gets nervous.

[Stark]

If you're talking about the drivel in Fires of Pompeii, it turns out the events appeared 'fixed' to him because they were caused by his own future self. Fixed unchanging points are expressly 'wrong' to him, like Jack.

I have no idea why you think humanities' future is fixed when it's menaced on a weekly basis.

[Batman]

I'm not saying it IS fixed. I'm saying the Doctor apparently thinks some parts of it ARE, or at least SHOULD be, and gets agitated when they don't happen the way he expected them to. And sorry, that happened as early as 'The Long Game' so the Doctor clearly believes there IS an overall shape history should adhere to.

[Stark]

Lol.

Things weren't as he expected them to be; he obviously hadn't been tithe period since the time war. History was manipulated by the Daleks. The Doctor being surprised things had changed doesn't mean they're 'meant' to be 'fixed'; once he found out it was a giant worm he didn't investigate further because that was a valid explanation. That suggests it isn't hard at all, and indeed that the Doctor isn't really surprised it was changed without time travel - hardly surprising given the chaos of the time war.

The fact he had to fix it makes your use of it as proof that history is fixed pretty funny. The Timecop population is pretty low at that point.

[Batman]

Fair enough, I obviously overinterpreted The Doctor's comments about Pompeii and how Jack Harkness shouldn't have happened.

[Thanas]

Actually, regarding torchwood in the alternate universe, it may just be that the werewolf did get Queen Victoria. That would explain the rapid ascension of Britain to just one of two countries in the world.

[Batman]

I assume this to mean 'just two countries that in the end matter' but I'd like that clarified?

[Thanas]

No, just two countries in the world - the british empire and greater germany. At least that is what I remember.

[Batman]

Err-what iteration of Dr Who/Torchwood are we talking about? Who definitely had countries other than those prior to season 5 at least and I'm working with RTL2 as far as Torchwood is concerned.

[Thanas]

The alternate world of Rose and Pete, as seen in S2 of NuWho.

[Batman]

Ah. That one. Wasn't Bad Wolf Bay explicitly mentioned to be in Norway nevertheless? It's been a while since I saw s2.

[Thanas]

Ah. That one. Wasn't Bad Wolf Bay explicitly mentioned to be in Norway nevertheless? It's been a while since I saw s2.

Yes, but that doesn't disagree with it actually - we still call wales wales even though it is part of the UK.

[Batman]

Unlike Norway Wales isn't a COUNTRY but point conceeded. I still can't remember anything to that effect but it's been a while.

[Stark]

Oh Bats, you're so stupid. Wanna know WHY Wales isn't a country? Look it up.

Anyway Thanas, Science Mook does say there are 'other countries' and Davros is just too focused on the 'homeland' to care. They might all be rubbish, but no WWI might mean the Pete Empire and Pete Germans are untouched by war.

It's interesting to speculate that not only is the empire larger, it's ruled by an elected non-white and has piles of zeppelins while containing significant social divisions.

[Thanas]

^Hmmm. I think you didn't mean Davros.

However, the non-white being president was often taken as a direct result of the wolf biting Victoria - if the earthlings found out and killed her, monarchy might have disappeared as a concept.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Um... yeah... Wales was a country last time I checked. Likewise Scotland and England.

As for the matter of only two countries existing in Pete's World where did that come from? I must be missing a pretty huge indication to that somewhere...

[mr friendly guy]

Other realities from the old series include

1) Time line from "inferno" where the inferno project ended up devastating the Earth, and Pertwee's doctor had to get back to our time line and stop it.

2) E-space, where giant vampire monsters who were defeated by the Time Lords fled to (presumably they were indigenous to E-space and had the means to travel to our "N-space").

3) of course the events of "Genesis of the Daleks" may have altered history so much such that previous dalek stories like "The Chase" and "The dalek masterplan" gets consigned to an alternate reality.

[Straha]

Doctor Who makes no sense on paralell universes. Case in point: Turn Left. Despite the barrier between universes being nigh on unbreakable and something only the likes of the Time Lords or Daleks could do Earth-2 Torchwood can do it with Rose without any sweat at all and without the help of the Doctor. Further the Doctor explains to Donna that she's been in a paralell universe the entire time she had the bug on her back. So: aliens of minor consequence can create alternate universes with their pets, the universes can be breached only at great cost... except when there is no cost, the technology necessary is only within the understanding of 21st century physics and Time Lords, and paralell universes can be selectively explored and targetted to go into (how Rose went to Donna's freshly created universe) and apparently kept track of (how Rose knew there was a problem in the first place) with minor trouble. There's more, obviously, but I'll leave you there.

As for changing history, Doctor Who has been terribly inconsistent on that front. The Aztecs makes it very very clear you can never ever change history no matter how hard you try. But then other people change history without breaking a sweat (the Master becomming Prime Minister) or in minor fits of pique ("doesn't she look tired?"). The Time War was trotted out once as an explanation but that's gotten stretched very thin.

Personally I think the Black Guardian can change monumental stuff like this and that's the only explanation. And that only makes sense if his name is actually Russell.

[Thanas]

Doctor Who makes no sense on paralell universes. Case in point: Turn Left. Despite the barrier between universes being nigh on unbreakable and something only the likes of the Time Lords or Daleks could do Earth-2 Torchwood can do it with Rose without any sweat at all and without the help of the Doctor. Further the Doctor explains to Donna that she's been in a paralell universe the entire time she had the bug on her back. So: aliens of minor consequence can create alternate universes with their pets, the universes can be breached only at great cost... except when there is no cost, the technology necessary is only within the understanding of 21st century physics and Time Lords, and paralell universes can be selectively explored and targetted to go into (how Rose went to Donna's freshly created universe) and apparently kept track of (how Rose knew there was a problem in the first place) with minor trouble. There's more, obviously, but I'll leave you there.

That has more to do with the wall of the universe weakening due to Davros.

Although why the doctor didn't pick that up is another question.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Aye, the Doctor didn't say the barrier was nearly unbreakable, he simply says the barrier became unbreakable without the Time Lords (or, apparently, the Daleks who have comparable technology) there to make it possible.

Alternate universe Torchwood apparently had the resources and technology to notice a weakening of said barrier and create a device to breach it.