SD.net: Lords of Darkness (RAR!) Mk-II

[Mr Bean]

Solauren your system does pretty much nothing to stop AK-47's for everyone! Even if I'm limited to only moving it myself I'm pretty sure I can trolley through thousands of fire arms. Crates go on trolly's with assistance earth side, I push it through. Minions unload once it's twenty feet away, I meanwhile am pushing a second Trolley through, take first empty trolley back and everyone's happy.

It may be exhausting from me but having been forced to take a second job in a warehouse a few times(Or even my only job when I was younger)... I have a damn good idea how much material I can move. as Oberst pointed out I still have millions of dollars to spend. And at even US inflated prices of a thousand dollars an AK, I can still afford to bring back sixty thousand of them. In south Africa and elsewhere they got for between 80$-250$ with the Soviet production crated stock going for about 400-600$ but with bulk discounts that price will be towards the 400$.

Now there is the simple problem of laying on hands of finding a supplier with 60k worth of AK's. But better to rely on multi-source. Buy African, American, Turkish, and possibly Russian and Ukraine weapons as well. Even if I can't get AK-47's I can still clear out hunting rifles and the like.

[Solauren]

Maybe a 'no weapons that don't have a period equal' rule then for the door?

I mean, you could go through and buy swords, bows + arrows, armor, etc manufactured with modern materials and methods, but you couldn't bring back modern era firearms.

While that would definately be a big advantage, it wouldn't be world-crushing advantage.

We'd still be using period style weapons, just updated.


However, if everyone else wants to go 'no door', then that's fine with me.

Or maybe the door is for personal luxury items only, and they can't go beyond your personal chambers?

However, if the door is to be elminated, that's fine.

[Mr Bean]

No period weapons still means I can bring back cannons and primitive weapons already in existence in China.
Like I said, simple rules. The door opens on only one day, for twenty four hours in one shot, limiting what you could bring back in any regard. And further state that if you walk through the door it stays open for twenty four hours. But the instant you step back through the door closes regardless of how much time you have. And if you don't step back through within twenty four hours your minions go unaligned and seek out the nearest god to serve.

[Master_Baerne]

I vote for no door - it adds a layer of oddness that I feel does nothing to improve the game.

[Solauren]

Agreed; Kill the Door then.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Anywho, Crossroads, when you say not in a city, does that mean I can't drop my Forsaken Fortress of Feudal Fervor™ on the outskirts of an existing city? For instance, say I want to show up outside Beijing and overthrow the Yuan Dynasty. Am I allowed to do that, or would I have to establish myself somewhere in the steppes and wage a bloody campaign to fight my way to the capital?

You can TRY, I looked at the forces you posted and they are rather formidable, but trying to "Zerg Rush" the Chinese central city is still a big gamble. You may want to outline some more detailed battleplans on what you may do. Im looking into the military forces of the time and they seem rather formidable.

Can we also be placed in the old world?

Yes, basically anywhere as long as there is enough open space in the area for a fortress and army to plop down.

And as far as the Door goes, I originally intended it to be used to bring back information over a long period of time, books and such, not guns and weapons, that said it looks like much of the discussion seems resolute on doing away with it so. Mr. Beans outline is the best so far for keeping the door more an informational entry rather then mass shipping guns and exploiting it.

Updated Map as well

[TimothyC]

Cincinnati is on the Ohio Crossroads, Not the Wabash.

[Samuel]

Yes, basically anywhere as long as there is enough open space in the area for a fortress and army to plop down.

Would ten meters above the Imperial Palace count as open space?

[Darth Yoshi]

You can TRY, I looked at the forces you posted and they are rather formidable, but trying to "Zerg Rush" the Chinese central city is still a big gamble. You may want to outline some more detailed battleplans on what you may do. Im looking into the military forces of the time and they seem rather formidable.

That's why I want to spawn right on the outskirts, so that the Yuan military has no time to react. Immediately deploy my centaurs and ursoids to cut off the city, to prevent the capital from sending out a call for reinforcements. I hope to take control of the capital without anyone finding out some time, long enough to entrench myself. After all, ignoring my army and fortress, I'm essentially assassinating the Emperor and installing myself as ruler. My forces are only there to ensure their cooperation with the transition.

If I need to show up further away, then I pick out a location further south and attempt to ally myself with the White Lotus, who historically did succeed in overthrowing the Mongols. I will, of course, neutralize Hongwu as threat, either by co-opting him or removing him entirely, and consolidate my hold on the south before sending forces north to conquer Dadu.

And as far as the Door goes, I originally intended it to be used to bring back information over a long period of time, books and such, not guns and weapons, that said it looks like much of the discussion seems resolute on doing away with it so. Mr. Beans outline is the best so far for keeping the door more an informational entry rather then mass shipping guns and exploiting it.

If you want us to be able to get up-to-date info, just make it part of the magic internet that lets us overlords communicate.

Would ten meters above the Imperial Palace count as open space?

That's a pretty good way to fuck up some landscape. Less useful if you want to capture the capital and its bureaucracy intact.

[Master_Baerne]

It's not going to work. You'd need thousands more troops to seal of a city the size of Beijing, even with time to establish siege works, and if you seriously think the Chinese populace won't flee en masse from an army of horrible hellspawned beasts, you're off your rocker. I find it highly unlikely, to say the least, that you can take over the capital with no one the wiser, and even more unlikely that you can hold it against the massive retribution which will be incoming from all corners of the world's most populous nation.

[Mr Bean]

Yoshi is welcome to try but I think it's a doomed effort considering despite the instant army you have, you still face the fake they out-number you something like five to one. And that's standing forces, they have a population of roughly ten million in that area to draw a military from and that's besides the fact that your ignoring history. Every time the Emperor died during this time period the various proviences Rebelled or the nobility tried to split off. This was a time of chaotic transitions and there was much work for a solider to do.

Trying to win via Coup de main might succeed only to have fifty thousand soldiers at your door a month from then, and the Imperial City is not set up to resist seige. All that advance knowledge will come to nothing if you don't have the time to employ it.


Also Crossroads
Look at your map. Who is this Mr Baan?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Also Crossroads
Look at your map. Who is this Mr Baan?

Oh hell thats twice now.. Well I've already fixed it and will update in the next map post. That said you are defiantly the single biggest power in the North American area. I am curious what your plans for the place are seeing as how oyu have more forces then everyone else in NA Put together.

And as far as Yoshis plan, she would need to put almost all her forces into Orcs in oder to have enough competent soldiers to Hold the Imperial city. Taking it will be easy, defending it from the armies of China is another thing.

[Mr Bean]

Look at your map. Who is this Mr Baan?

Oh hell thats twice now.. Well I've already fixed it and will update in the next map post. That said you are defiantly the single biggest power in the North American area. I am curious what your plans for the place are seeing as how oyu have more forces then everyone else in NA Put together.[/quote]
My plans are long term at the moment. Set up a viable civilization centered around the triad of rivers with the Mississippi as my main line. Expanding from present day Memphis down to coast where New Orleans will sit, and you better believe I'll be bringing back as much weather information as I can. Everything from when Hurricanes will hit to what years are Drought years.

I will use the Natives, those that will not swear to serve me will be forced to serve. Those that serve will be rewarded. I will seek to bind the tribes together towards my stated goal. Which is when the settlers begin landing in three hundred odd years they will find a vibrate culture with advanced learning and a well developed internal trade structure with a few odd things slung in.

My other stated long term goals is to spread my minions around, to not only bring the tribes to my side but to also bring in the Orcs, the Naga, the Satyrs the Ursiods and the Centaur's in as valuable symbiotic species with the humans. The Orcs and Minotaur's can die in battle for all I care. But if I have my way in a hundred years the Naga will be boatmen along the rivers and fishers of the lakes which they sell to communities and cities of Orcs and Humans side by side. And so on with the other species.

As for the other players Samuel, MariusRoi and Master_Baerne make useful endpoints. As I expand up-river they expand down to meet somewhere in the middle. My main focus is on expanding to the sea.

*Edit, updated OOB


30,000 Orcs(60k)
15,000 Naga (45k)
7,000 Satyrs (35k)
2,500 Ursiods (75k)
1,750 Centaurs (35k)
250k Total (56,250 total minions)

That gives me Five Legions of Orcs, 50 Harbors of Naga, Nine Forests of Satyrs, Five Brotherhoods of Ursiods and 7 Lances of Centaurs. More than enough to fight it out with any other local power if required. Per my trading group all of them qualify for the trades so I have 5625 trades people. With 1125 being blacksmiths. The rest being farmers, clothiers, Merchants, traders, ect. Meaning my main citadel and the city that will grow around it can expect to be a town of roughly twelve thousand in addition to surrounding farmland. All of them ready and able soliders. With my Naga I can quickly expand down river setting up River Forts and outposts and the like.

[Darth Yoshi]

It's not going to work. You'd need thousands more troops to seal of a city the size of Beijing, even with time to establish siege works, and if you seriously think the Chinese populace won't flee en masse from an army of horrible hellspawned beasts, you're off your rocker. I find it highly unlikely, to say the least, that you can take over the capital with no one the wiser, and even more unlikely that you can hold it against the massive retribution which will be incoming from all corners of the world's most populous nation.

Thousands? Khanbaliq only had 11 gates, not counting waterways. Outlying villages are the main concern, but that's what the orcs are for. I plan on spawning during the night, while the locals are asleep.

The rest of the empire isn't a problem. The Yuan were on the verge of collapse as it was, and by the time word filters out that an army of beasts has taken the capital the rest of China has other problems to worry about. All I need to do is secure the city and break the local army, which is admittedly the hard part. Take over the city, and when things actually improve for the local peons, they're not going to particularly care that I have an army of demons. Especially since they're polite demons.

But anyway, looking at the demographics, I probably would be better off starting off further south and allying with the White Lotus or another rebel group, since the majority of the Han, whom I'm relying on for local support, were south of the Yangtze.

Crossroads: she? *raises eyebrow*

[Mr Bean]

Crossroads: she? *raises eyebrow*

Congratulations you won a free sex change? Excuse me, you won a Free Gender Reassignment Operation!

[Crossroads Inc.]

Crossroads: she? *raises eyebrow*

Congratulations you won a free sex change? Excuse me, you won a Free Gender Reassignment Operation!

I don't know why, but for some reason I ALWAYS refer to Darth Yoshi as "she" i don't know what it is but I keep thinking hes a girl

Also, reading Mr.Beans numbers simply makes me quiver in my boots... His Ursids along could curb stomp anyone in the area. WIll be interesting to see just how quickly he develops next to everyone-else. Well, aside from The Yosemite Bear, though he hasn't been too active.

[Samuel]

I don't know why, but for some reason I ALWAYS refer to Darth Yoshi as "she" i don't know what it is but I keep thinking hes a girl

He always has a cute female avatar?

[bobnik]

Name of State: Austraboblia

Initial Location: The present-day location of Mittagong, NSW Australia - location of Australia's first iron ore mine, which was also right next to a coal mine and a shale oil mine. Heh.

Order of Battle - 7500 pts budget.

1000 goblins - 1000pts

The gobbos shall be unskilled labour. 'Nuff said.

100 Satyrs - 500pts

The Satyrs will be my scholars and diplomats. Wherever possible they shall be the recipients of my gift of long life, to aid in their task. They will learn the languages of the Aboriginal tribes and offer to trade metal tools and knowledge for the knowledge of local plants, animals, landscapes - all the stuff you'd expect a bunch of seasoned hunter-gatherers to know.

600 Nagas - 1800 pts

The Nagas will be immediately deployed to the coastline in the Wollongong area where they will begin fishing and agriculture. Eventually I want them to spread up and down the coast.

2100 Orcs - 4200 pts

Orcs will be catch-all skilled labour.

Even mix of cattle, goats, chickens. No pigs 'cause wild ones are a bloody menace. Can I have some sheep instead?

My cubic meter will be filled with as much information as I can - various methods of mining, metal working, farming, Australian botany, zoology, maps both topographical and mineralogical, health care, maths, so on and so forth.

First objectives are exploitation of the local mineral reserves and setting up agriculture. I may not be able to start without some clearfelling but the long term objective is sustainability. There are a fair few environmental issues (salinity, erosion, acid sulphate soils, feral pests) that came from Europeans expecting Australia to work just like Europe, and with the benefit of hindsight I hope to avoid these. Secondary tasks involve peaceful communication with the local tribes, using Satyrs with Orc escort as ambassadors. Their objectives are trade (bush foods for knowledge and tools) as well as bio-assay and minerals prospecting. Eventual expansion plans involve exploiting more minerals - you can see from the map above that NSW is rife with tin, gold, lead, copper, silver and coal. I want to trade with SE Asia when this becomes practical, and possibly even form a peaceful trading relationship with the guys in NZ.

Relations with the Aborigines: Basically I want to do a gentle cultural imperialism thingy on them. Sway them to my side with advanced tools and healthcare and eventually coordinate them as a bunch of city state-like entities. However, any that start hostilities with me will be defeated and enslaved. I want to avoid giving anyone iron tools until I have achieved hegemony over them, bronze and brass and ceramics will be enough gift to impress them I think. I will attempt to get a rep of "his word is good and he'd rather trade and talk than fight - but seriously, do NOT mess with him."

All my minions will be monitored as to their breeding patterns. I'm running close to the line on inbreeding, but eugenics should help. Trading bloodlines with other Bark Lords shall be vigourously pursued ASAP.

[consequences]

Oh come on, pooled together, the combined forces of the Anti-Bean CONUS alliance would have 72,500 points more than Bean.

Which just means that he'd smash several of us in isolation while we were trying to link up our forces, and then crush anyone left because of the disunited command structures, but he doesn't outnumber us!

So, what is your bidding my Atkinsonian Liege?

And yeah, bringing detailed historical information about macroscopic climate and weather along with all the good locations for tasty tasty minerals. I'm thinking semaphore tower networks for long-distance communication across the continent, until we get up to the point we can support some form of radio?

[Solauren]

#1 - My location is right, Yeah!

#2 - Maybe the maps should be color coded to indicate alliances.

[Raesene]

[...]
I'm thinking semaphore tower networks for long-distance communication across the continent, until we get up to the point we can support some form of radio?

For personal communication, we have the solar-powered laptops and the special SDN-forum.
The semaphore towers are a good idea, but why not go directly for a telegraph ? Someone mentioned ogre-powered trains, while laying those tracks, we could add the thelegraph lines (provided they don't need electricity) to the work. second thougt, would a primitive steam engine be feasible for our orcsmiths ?

I support the idea of exchanging high-value minions for breeding purposes- that should keep the populations of us small landholders healthy. For the first 100 years or so, I'll try to increase my population as my headcount of 2200 is not really impressive. That is one of the reasons I want to be friends with the natives, providing assistance in return for trade and allegiance. Thy would just overwhelm me with numbers.

My (books, not practical) knowledge of agriculture and technology as well as hygiene should give me a better population growth than usual at the time. I'm aware that that is valid for all Lords of Darkness, but I don't expect someone to be very interested in my frosty domain (avg. temp during the year between -12°C and 26°C). My aim is to use the timber resources to construct ships, as I am dependent on mineral resources from other LoDs and land transport of ores is not exactly a good idea.

[Master_Baerne]

Steam engines aren't hard to build at all, basically all you need is an airtight boiler, a pipe, and something to attach it to. I have no doubt that the orcs, if supplied with plans, can build one.

[consequences]

Steam engines aren't hard to build at all, basically all you need is an airtight boiler, a pipe, and something to attach it to. I have no doubt that the orcs, if supplied with plans, can build one.

The trick isn't building one, the trick is getting the standards of production to the point that you can make as many as you want, and the parts for any will work in any of the others. For that, you will likely need to tech up some.

[Raesene]

Steam engines aren't hard to build at all, basically all you need is an airtight boiler, a pipe, and something to attach it to. I have no doubt that the orcs, if supplied with plans, can build one.

The trick isn't building one, the trick is getting the standards of production to the point that you can make as many as you want, and the parts for any will work in any of the others. For that, you will likely need to tech up some.

True, but for the first experiments their equipment should work nicely. I just have to take the instructions on how the first rails were procused with me. A better, more simple use for primitive steam engines would be on a ship - a paddlewheel steamer should be feasible and would significantly improve the transport route between the mainland and my island margaviate. Larger vessels could serve as coastal/river tugs for barges. In addition, it would impress the natives

A thought I had today: With the manpower an admin has available, I'd put my base on Ceylon and take over India from there.

[Mr Bean]

[...]
I'm thinking semaphore tower networks for long-distance communication across the continent, until we get up to the point we can support some form of radio?

For personal communication, we have the solar-powered laptops and the special SDN-forum.
The semaphore towers are a good idea, but why not go directly for a telegraph ? Someone mentioned ogre-powered trains, while laying those tracks, we could add the thelegraph lines (provided they don't need electricity) to the work.
.

I'll not talk about the the steam engine but I'll suggest reading this excerpt from the Grantvillie Gazette which is a fan production of the 1632 books(About a West Virgina town throw back to 1632) and all the things they can and can not do.

Telecommunications in 1633
Note however they have the full resources of a rather smallish 2000ish town to draw on while we have what we can bring back that first day and minions. To quote one section.

So, we have a wire, we have a doorbell button, we have the new weird doorbell that goes click-CLACK, we have a code... DONE! Not hardly. What else do we need to make a commercial telegraph operation?

First, we need wire. Modern telephone and electrical wire is copper, but copper wire alone is weak, and requires too many telegraph poles. The transcontinental telegraph in the US used #8 iron wire at 375 pounds per mile. Sometime after the civil war, the telegraph companies switched to copper-clad iron wire, then to multistranded copper over a steel weight-bearing core. No one in seventeenth-century Europe will be making that any time soon. It's iron for us.

The problem is, iron wire placed up on poles in the air rusts; #8 iron wire hung out by itself alone in typical North American weather rusts through in a year. The solution in the 1860s, and for the USE is to "galvanize" the wire, that is, to coat it with zinc. For every mile of wire, we will need ten pounds of zinc.

This raises another problem. We can't just lay the wire on the ground. We need poles. Iron wire needs the support of twenty two poles per mile. That's a theoretical number, incidentally. In practice, allowing for the effects of terrain, you have to figure that 40 miles needs approximately 1000 poles and 135 miles needs 3500 poles.

The use of fewer poles results in the wire sagging, and if multiple wires are strung from each pole it becomes possible for the wires to touch when swaying in the wind. Live trees make poor telegraph poles for several reasons. They grow, and the wires get pulled, they have leaves and other branches that can short out the wires, and they have sap running through them that acts as a conductor, helping "earth" the signal. Additionally, frequently there's no strong tree where you want one. It's far better to have poles made from dead trees that don't have sap, don't grow, and lack branches. Don't lose count. We need twenty two per mile.