Amusing CIA hit team story (Cheney's assassination program)

[Vympel]

Link

My sources are telling me that the secret CIA program involving a Dick Cheney coverup that is currently in the news consisted of dispatching assassination teams to various countries to kill individuals who were known to be al-Qaeda supporters but who, for various reasons, had not been detained by the governments of the countries in which they were residing. A number of those being targeted were living freely in Latin America, Africa, and Europe. The assassins were to be drawn from CIA’s own special ops group and also from delta force. They would enter the target countries as businessmen on false passports, some of which would be non-American, obtain weapons sent ahead through the diplomatic pouch to the US Embassy, kill the target, turn the weapons back over to an embassy contact, and leave the country. The program used delta soldiers initially because CIA SOG was fully engaged in Afghanistan. The first hit attempt was in Kenya, was botched, and the deltas had to be bailed out by the Ambassador who had not been briefed on what was going on under his nose. The program was suspended after that but never quite terminated.

The issues raised by such a program are obvious and it is clear that Dick Cheney knew that it would never fly through congress once the details were made clear. First, assassination by the USGOV has been illegal since the Church hearings in 1976. The Director of Central Intelligence can override the restriction, as can the president with a finding, but to do so in support of a program rather than a one-off would be risky. Second, the use of false foreign passports would create problems with any number of friendly governments if exposed. Third, killing terrorist suspects in countries that were friendly could easily escalate into major diplomatic incidents. Fourth, the use of Embassies to smuggle in weapons was very risky indeed as many foreign governments surreptitiously x-ray diplomatic pouches and the ploy would likely have been discovered. Finally, the entire scheme depends on excellent intelligence on the whereabouts and activities of the suspected terrorists, something that the US did not have then and does not have now. There was real danger that innocent people would get hit, just as occured with a similar Israeli Mossad program in the 1970s that killed a waiter in Oslo. The perpetrators in Kenya also quickly discovered that white boys born in the American south sporting crewcuts and speaking no foreign language had difficulties in blending in as foreign businessmen.

In principle, if there had been some way to decapitate al-Qaeda in the immediate days after 9/11 even by using extraordinary means, I think many Americans including myself would have been supportive. But in reality the capability to identify and hit the targets was never there, so it is best that the program never really took off.

A far cry from spy novels.

[TheLostVikings]

There was real danger that innocent people would get hit, just as occured with a similar Israeli Mossad program in the 1970s that killed a waiter in Oslo. The perpetrators in Kenya also quickly discovered that white boys born in the American south sporting crewcuts and speaking no foreign language had difficulties in blending in as foreign businessmen.

Afaik that Mossad assassination pretty much singlehandedly turned the general consensus in Norway from massively-in-support-of-Israel to Pro-Palestine, literally overnight. A pretty good reason why this whole charade was idiotic from the get go.

And they couldn't have chosen someone a little more circumspect, really? That's just sad.

[hongi]

How serious is this?

[NeoGoomba]

Thats what we get for using the poor man's Treadstone.

[The Spartan]

The perpetrators in Kenya also quickly discovered that white boys born in the American south sporting crewcuts and speaking no foreign language had difficulties in blending in as foreign businessmen.

Wait, why wouldn't Delta operators speak foreign languages? I would have thought learning a foreign language was a requirement; it is for the Green Berets. And wouldn't Delta operators tasked to this sort of mission be using relaxed grooming standards?

Though, obviously, the white guys thing would make them stick out, hell, even a black man would stick out if he's the "wrong" kind of black, but if they're posing as European business men speaking French or German, let's say, then that could be managed to a certain degree. Though not if they're trying to stake out a particular residence when their "business contacts" aren't near to that location.

The above comments aside, it's still a pretty retarded idea once one really thinks about it. If true, it's like someone spent too much time watching Delta Force or Navy SEALs. Or the friggin' Bourne Identity. There are so many practical issues that create deal-breaking problems that I can't imagine how anyone sane or thoughtful can think this would work.

[Patrick Degan]

Y'know... Count Dick sooooooo wanted to be a James Bond supervillain while having all those neat powers he aggrandised for himself as vice president. But it's becoming increasingly obvious that he couldn't even rise to the competency-level of Dr. Evil.

[Azazal]

There are so many practical issues that create deal-breaking problems that I can't imagine how anyone sane or thoughtful can think this would work.

Not to sound like a one line answer, but Bush Administration =/= sane or thoughtful. Sadly if you've seen the Robot Chicken where Bush day dreams her Capt Texas or is a Jedi Knight/Force user, you'll ask yourself is it parody, or an un-edited insight to the working of his maladministration.

[Thanas]

Though, obviously, the white guys thing would make them stick out, hell, even a black man would stick out if he's the "wrong" kind of black, but if they're posing as European business men speaking French or German, let's say, then that could be managed to a certain degree. Though not if they're trying to stake out a particular residence when their "business contacts" aren't near to that location.

The german GSG9 tried to pose as businessmen. Guess what happens when a lot of muscular men show up, don't drink any alcohol at all, instead try to be as fit as possible and always keep their mobile phones ready? Within hours of them arriving, everyone knew something was up.

Even the GSG9 can't pose as german businessmen convincingly and they are german. What makes you think americans would manage it?

[fgalkin]

It's a pity German and American businessmen don't have bodyguards like Russian oligarchs. They COULD have posed as a businessman's security team.

Of course, Russian businessmen have to be frequently taken off European flights as they get so drunk in flight they start fighting each other or the crew. Being sober would give them away pretty quick.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Pablo Sanchez]

Wait, why wouldn't Delta operators speak foreign languages? I would have thought learning a foreign language was a requirement; it is for the Green Berets.

The reason that Green Berets learn foreign languages is the Green Berets work closely with local allies over the long term, training them and assisting them in combat operations. Foreign language proficiency is part of ensuring their effectiveness at their mission. Delta doesn't work like this and is more geared towards performing discrete tactical actions, like rescuing the Iranian hostages or capturing Aidid. It might be helpful for them to know languages but it's not likely to be mission-critical.

I think somebody at the Office of the Vice President read a few too many spy novels. The article says that the CIA's SOG operatives were all committed in Afghanistan, so they used Delta guys, which is kind of silly when you remember that the SOG uses selected people from elite units like Delta and then gives them additional extensive training in how to be a spy before they are put in the field. This kind of implies that you can't just take a soldier right out of Delta and send him after the bad guys.

[Simon_Jester]

It's a pity German and American businessmen don't have bodyguards like Russian oligarchs. They COULD have posed as a businessman's security team.

Of course, Russian businessmen have to be frequently taken off European flights as they get so drunk in flight they start fighting each other or the crew. Being sober would give them away pretty quick.

But while Russian businessmen get drunk, do the Russian businessmen tolerate their guards getting drunk? I would be surprised to learn so, though not very.

I think somebody at the Office of the Vice President read a few too many spy novels. The article says that the CIA's SOG operatives were all committed in Afghanistan, so they used Delta guys, which is kind of silly when you remember that the SOG uses selected people from elite units like Delta and then gives them additional extensive training in how to be a spy before they are put in the field. This kind of implies that you can't just take a soldier right out of Delta and send him after the bad guys.

Well, you can, but only if you need a commando and not a spy. There's a tremendous difference between the two roles, and for assassination missions you really want someone who can do both.

[fgalkin]

It's a pity German and American businessmen don't have bodyguards like Russian oligarchs. They COULD have posed as a businessman's security team.

Of course, Russian businessmen have to be frequently taken off European flights as they get so drunk in flight they start fighting each other or the crew. Being sober would give them away pretty quick.

But while Russian businessmen get drunk, do the Russian businessmen tolerate their guards getting drunk? I would be surprised to learn so, though not very.

Depends on the businessmen in question. A drunk businessman with sober bodyguards trying to keep him in check might be a good cover, if they could pull it off.

Or, possibly, this is something for the spy thrillers only. I don't think we'll get a definitive answer from a professional on this one.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Elfdart]

Y'know... Count Dick sooooooo wanted to be a James Bond supervillain while having all those neat powers he aggrandised for himself as vice president. But it's becoming increasingly obvious that he couldn't even rise to the competency-level of Dr. Evil.

Dr. Evil? Dick Vader makes Team Rocket look like Sith Lords. He reminds me of Otto from A Fish Called Wanda. He wants people to think he's some kind of ruthless badass mofo, but he's really just a fuckwit.



Don't call me stupid!

[Samuel]

Dick Vader makes Team Rocket look like Sith Lords.

I'd like to point out that Team Rocket has a slightly better track record- they may not win, but unlike the Sith, they don't die when they screw up. Even though they experience g forces that would pulp a Sith

I think this is a good example of "It seemed like a good idea at the time" when no one thinks things through and you get alot of group think. Basically, the whole presidency.

[The Spartan]

Though, obviously, the white guys thing would make them stick out, hell, even a black man would stick out if he's the "wrong" kind of black, but if they're posing as European business men speaking French or German, let's say, then that could be managed to a certain degree. Though not if they're trying to stake out a particular residence when their "business contacts" aren't near to that location.

The german GSG9 tried to pose as businessmen. Guess what happens when a lot of muscular men show up, don't drink any alcohol at all, instead try to be as fit as possible and always keep their mobile phones ready? Within hours of them arriving, everyone knew something was up.

Even the GSG9 can't pose as german businessmen convincingly and they are german. What makes you think americans would manage it?

"managed to a certain degree" =/= pull it off convincingly

The reason that Green Berets learn foreign languages is the Green Berets work closely with local allies over the long term, training them and assisting them in combat operations. Foreign language proficiency is part of ensuring their effectiveness at their mission.

I realize that.

Delta doesn't work like this and is more geared towards performing discrete tactical actions, like rescuing the Iranian hostages or capturing Aidid. It might be helpful for them to know languages but it's not likely to be mission-critical.

Surely though they would go through some language training since they're going to be operating behind the lines? I seem to recall one of their missions is deep recon. And even if they don't, wouldn't you want to assign guys who had been pulled from the Green Berets and thus did speak a foreign language like this? Or are we assuming someone would not have thought of that? Although to be fair they didn't necessarily have someone available for deployment who could do that. One more strike against the practical implementation.

I think somebody at the Office of the Vice President read a few too many spy novels.

That's much what I was thinking.

[Pelranius]

I don't suppose that it would be realistic to hope that all these details are actually meant to throw us off the scent of a successful operation?

[Thanas]

Though, obviously, the white guys thing would make them stick out, hell, even a black man would stick out if he's the "wrong" kind of black, but if they're posing as European business men speaking French or German, let's say, then that could be managed to a certain degree. Though not if they're trying to stake out a particular residence when their "business contacts" aren't near to that location.

The german GSG9 tried to pose as businessmen. Guess what happens when a lot of muscular men show up, don't drink any alcohol at all, instead try to be as fit as possible and always keep their mobile phones ready? Within hours of them arriving, everyone knew something was up.

Even the GSG9 can't pose as german businessmen convincingly and they are german. What makes you think americans would manage it?

"managed to a certain degree" =/= pull it off convincingly

They didn't even manage that - any cover ID where a random journalist can just look at you and go "Yeah, right" is a sucky one.

[Samuel]

I think somebody at the Office of the Vice President read a few too many spy novels.

That's much what I was thinking.

This is the administration that used Jack Bauer as a source. This isn't really a big stretch.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Surely though they would go through some language training since they're going to be operating behind the lines? I seem to recall one of their missions is deep recon.

There's a bit of difference between basic proficiency and the kind of fluency you need to pass for a native speaker, and anyway they were probably operating under European passports in Kenya, so they would have been pretending to be French or German or whatever, which they're less likely to have learned for the combat utility.

And even if they don't, wouldn't you want to assign guys who had been pulled from the Green Berets and thus did speak a foreign language like this? Or are we assuming someone would not have thought of that? Although to be fair they didn't necessarily have someone available for deployment who could do that. One more strike against the practical implementation.

On the one hand, the Green Berets may have been tied up training the Afghani and/or Iraqi armies during this time. On the other hand, given the whole "badass Jack Bauer" mien of this story, they may have deliberately picked Delta because of their hardcore reputation.

[Edward Yee]

The german GSG9 tried to pose as businessmen. Guess what happens when a lot of muscular men show up, don't drink any alcohol at all, instead try to be as fit as possible and always keep their mobile phones ready? Within hours of them arriving, everyone knew something was up.

Even the GSG9 can't pose as german businessmen convincingly and they are german. What makes you think americans would manage it?

This isn't the first time I've heard this sort of thing. Not the first time I've heard that it's perfectly possible to pick out "operators" in a crowd if you know what to look for. I found this amusing about the time that SEAL Team Six was called "Marine Research Facility" (MARESFAC):

This name (MARESFAC) was used for a short time, but the reality of the situation soon caused planners to rethink their OPSEC. Given the obviously (visibly) high level of physical conditioning of the men entering and leaving the facility, it was soon determined that such a cover was not reasonable. In short, it was decided that not even a casual observer would believe that such well-muscled and trim men could possibly make up the bulk of the scientific research facility staff.

The NYT article mentioned in the "secret program" thread mentions what sounds like plausible answers for why the program both never really got off the ground yet never really died: practical realities making it difficult to maintain in-house hunter-killer teams, but the idea (and hoped-for less collateral damage) being too appealing to kill when hearing about all the brouhaha over the missiles.

[Norseman]

Which is why I find books like "The Weapon" particularly amusing, where they can arrive at a planet knowing no more than that a bunch of weapons got delivered to a certain address, and then be able to trace a terrorist cell within two months. All without any preperations or humint.

[The Spartan]

They didn't even manage that - any cover ID where a random journalist can just look at you and go "Yeah, right" is a sucky one.

Which makes me wonder just who was running things above the tactical level. Surely someone in all this fiasco would understand how to create a fake background for someone that's convincing enough.

There's a bit of difference between basic proficiency and the kind of fluency you need to pass for a native speaker, and anyway they were probably operating under European passports in Kenya, so they would have been pretending to be French or German or whatever, which they're less likely to have learned for the combat utility.

Yeah, that's a good point. I forget sometimes that they only have that level, typically. (Just for background, I have a buddy that just got out of the Air Force who speaks fluent Russian, which he learned in the same place that SF operators would, except that that was his job so he would have had a great deal more practice and exposure)

On the one hand, the Green Berets may have been tied up training the Afghani and/or Iraqi armies during this time. On the other hand, given the whole "badass Jack Bauer" mien of this story, they may have deliberately picked Delta because of their hardcore reputation.

I wouldn't doubt it.

[PeZook]

Which is why I find books like "The Weapon" particularly amusing, where they can arrive at a planet knowing no more than that a bunch of weapons got delivered to a certain address, and then be able to trace a terrorist cell within two months. All without any preperations or humint.

Heh...also, consider the fact that special operators stand out even in total shitholes, while in "The Weapon" that terrorist guy was supposed to operate in a totalitarian nation state (which somehow had high crime despite supposedly omnipresent surveillance)

Frankly, it would be better to just pay local crime syndicates for the job

[Shroom Man 777]

I never really thought about special operators standing out because they were fit and healthy (and totally RIPPED with MUSCULAR MAN MEATS) and ending up being compromised since everyone else are diseased vice-ridden unhealthy shitpieces. Makes you appreciate the nuances of espionage.

I guess this is why back in the old days of the Cold War, you actually had real dedicated spies and didn't get all buffed-up SF Rambo macho men to do actual-factual spooking?

[Raj Ahten]

I never really thought about special operators standing out because they were fit and healthy (and totally RIPPED with MUSCULAR MAN MEATS) and ending up being compromised since everyone else are diseased vice-ridden unhealthy shitpieces. Makes you appreciate the nuances of espionage.

I guess this is why back in the old days of the Cold War, you actually had real dedicated spies and didn't get all buffed-up SF Rambo macho men to do actual-factual spooking?

Well even the real spies stand out like a sore thumb. A real spy recruits a local dude to do things for him while he hangs out at the embassy or whatever.

Spy work, like police work, is all about the quality of the informants you can recruit.