Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Just a little symbolic, yes ?
In George Orwell’s “1984,” government censors erase all traces of news articles embarrassing to Big Brother by sending them down an incineration chute called the “memory hole.”

On Friday, it was “1984” and another Orwell book, “Animal Farm,” that were dropped down the memory hole — by Amazon.com.

In a move that angered customers and generated waves of online pique, Amazon remotely deleted some digital editions of the books from the Kindle devices of readers who had bought them.

An Amazon spokesman, Drew Herdener, said in an e-mail message that the books were added to the Kindle store by a company that did not have rights to them, using a self-service function. “When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,” he said.

Amazon effectively acknowledged that the deletions were a bad idea. “We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said.

Customers whose books were deleted indicated that MobileReference, a digital publisher, had sold them. An e-mail message to SoundTells, the company that owns MobileReference, was not immediately returned.

Digital books bought for the Kindle are sent to it over a wireless network. Amazon can also use that network to synchronize electronic books between devices — and apparently to make them vanish.

An authorized digital edition of “1984” from its American publisher, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, was still available on the Kindle store Friday night, but there was no such version of “Animal Farm.”

People who bought the rescinded editions of the books reacted with indignation, while acknowledging the literary ironies involved. “Of all the books to recall,” said Charles Slater, an executive with a sheet-music retailer in Philadelphia, who bought the digital edition of “1984” for 99 cents last month. “I never imagined that Amazon actually had the right, the authority or even the ability to delete something that I had already purchased.”

Antoine Bruguier, an engineer in Silicon Valley, said he had noticed that his digital copy of “1984” appeared to be a scan of a paper edition of the book. “If this Kindle breaks, I won’t buy a new one, that’s for sure,” he said.

Amazon appears to have deleted other purchased e-books from Kindles recently. Customers commenting on Web forums reported the disappearance of digital editions of the Harry Potter books and the novels of Ayn Rand over similar issues.

Amazon’s published terms of service agreement for the Kindle does not appear to give the company the right to delete purchases after they have been made. It says Amazon grants customers the right to keep a “permanent copy of the applicable digital content.”

Retailers of physical goods cannot, of course, force their way into a customer’s home to take back a purchase, no matter how bootlegged it turns out to be. Yet Amazon appears to maintain a unique tether to the digital content it sells for the Kindle.

“It illustrates how few rights you have when you buy an e-book from Amazon,” said Bruce Schneier, chief security technology officer for British Telecom and an expert on computer security and commerce. “As a Kindle owner, I’m frustrated. I can’t lend people books and I can’t sell books that I’ve already read, and now it turns out that I can’t even count on still having my books tomorrow.”

Justin Gawronski, a 17-year-old from the Detroit area, was reading “1984” on his Kindle for a summer assignment and lost all his notes and annotations when the file vanished. “They didn’t just take a book back, they stole my work,” he said.

On the Internet, of course, there is no such thing as a memory hole. While the copyright on “1984” will not expire until 2044 in the United States, it has already expired in other countries, including Canada, Australia and Russia. Web sites in those countries offer digital copies of the book free to all comers.
Well, cross me off the list of potential Kindle buyers. Especially given this part :
“We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said.
Which is as much as admitting they will do it again.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Amazon got rid of illegal copies of media. And the issue is?
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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I bet you hate it when eBay removes illegal items from their auction site, too, huh?

A company was using Amazon's Kindle to make money illegally, and Amazon rectified the situation (and offered refunds). BFD.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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DPDarkPrimus wrote:Amazon got rid of illegal copies of media. And the issue is?
Would you mind if a company could access your hard drive and remove media you weren't entitled to (even if as far as you could tell you'd bought it legitimately)?

The issue isn't that they took it down, its that they remotely accessed users devices to delete the copies.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Yeah, and they said they'd be changing their routines so this wouldn't happen again. BFD
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Julhelm wrote:Yeah, and they said they'd be changing their routines so this wouldn't happen again. BFD
“We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said.
So in what circumstances will they?
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Sharp-kun wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Amazon got rid of illegal copies of media. And the issue is?
Would you mind if a company could access your hard drive and remove media you weren't entitled to (even if as far as you could tell you'd bought it legitimately)?

The issue isn't that they took it down, its that they remotely accessed users devices to delete the copies.
Exactly. And if they are willing and able to do so for one reason, I see no reason to assume that they won't do it for another.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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In what other circumstances than these would they have an excuse to?
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Sharp-kun wrote:
Julhelm wrote:Yeah, and they said they'd be changing their routines so this wouldn't happen again. BFD
“We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said.
So in what circumstances will they?
Your use of a counterfactual is innovative, but no less retarded for it. He was addressing the actions Amazon took in response to a set of circumstances, and saying that the actions were wrong. Twisting the specific words around to mean something not in evidence is stupid.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Terralthra wrote:Your use of a counterfactual is innovative, but no less retarded for it. He was addressing the actions Amazon took in response to a set of circumstances, and saying that the actions were wrong. Twisting the specific words around to mean something not in evidence is stupid.
Oh, please. "We won't do it again" is saying they won't do it again. "We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances" is an example of someone using weasel words.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

Post by Stark »

The changed procedures are probably around their self-service vetting; to prevent illegal copies being uploaded in the first place in the future.

Otherwise, this story is nothing. It's zero; it's typical no-news '1984 + deleted = omg' nonsense.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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How is 1984 still copyrighted? Hasn't George Orwell been dead for years?
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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You do know how copyright works, right? Indeed, it's such a complex issue that many websites will inform you that 'xyz book' is public domain 'in regions where copyright is life + 50' or whatever.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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What are you people? Coolaid drinking idiots?? After seeing this:
Justin Gawronski, a 17-year-old from the Detroit area, was reading “1984” on his Kindle for a summer assignment and lost all his notes and annotations when the file vanished. “They didn’t just take a book back, they stole my work,” he said.
and
“It illustrates how few rights you have when you buy an e-book from Amazon,” said Bruce Schneier, chief security technology officer for British Telecom and an expert on computer security and commerce. “As a Kindle owner, I’m frustrated. I can’t lend people books and I can’t sell books that I’ve already read, and now it turns out that I can’t even count on still having my books tomorrow.”
How can you think a Kindle is anything, but another way for amoral companies to squeeze yet more money out of society (especially the average poor powerless person) for their rich owners, CEOs, etc.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Turns out if you do 'your work' in a closed proprietary annotation format on an online-based device, bad things can happen? CLEARLY EV0LZ.

And someone says 'you can't do xyz things nobody ever said you could'! This means they're mean! Someone sold something illegally and the sold items were seized. If I buy a stolen car, they might take the car.

But I fucked my gf in that car. They didn't just take my car - they took my sex life! DAMN POLICE!
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Nova Andromeda wrote: How can you think a Kindle is anything, but another way for amoral companies to squeeze yet more money out of society (especially the average poor powerless person) for their rich owners, CEOs, etc.
You mean Amazon wants to make money? SHOCKING! It's totally not as if the insane $300+ price tag for a PDF reader didn't say that loud and clear. :lol:
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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If Amazon HADN'T removed the copies of 1984 from the kindles, they could have been sued for distributing property they didn't have the legal rights to. They had no other chocie.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Darksider wrote:How is 1984 still copyrighted? Hasn't George Orwell been dead for years?
It's in the public domain in most of the world, but not the US.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Shit like this is why I'm still a fan of old fashioned treebooks.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Oh no, a 17 year old lost all his doodles of cocks notes.

Amazon's system allowed for something illegal to be done. They fixed it as well as they could. Though it's intellectual property, not, say, a garden gnome, reversing the purchases was probably the best answer.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Stark wrote:I bet you carry a sack of records too. None of your digital music!!!
Yes, I still have my collection of vinyl. I have progressed to CD's, although I do not yet have an MP3 player.
Pick wrote:Amazon's system allowed for something illegal to be done. They fixed it as well as they could. Though it's intellectual property, not, say, a garden gnome, reversing the purchases was probably the best answer.
I think that, from a PR perspective, that notifying the customers prior to the deletion might have prevented much upset. Some of the complaints seem to stem as much from the sudden and unexplained disappearance of something purchased as anything else. Perhaps a note sent saying "We're sorry, but this illegal thing happened and we have to correct it. We apologize for the inconvenience and have refunded your money" might have gone a long way to prevent hard feelings. Or a news release.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Stark wrote:I bet you carry a sack of records too. None of your digital music!!!
Actually we have this invention called the Walkman and cassette tapes.

Getting back on topic I'm not seeing a problem here. I'll bet there's a fine print clause in the license & ownership agreement for the Kindle that makes it 100% legal for Amazon to do this, and if there isn't one then they're pretty incompetant. Amazon refunded their customer accounts, and if someone lost their doodles that's covered under the fine print which says "we're not responsible for loss of data on your Kindle", and I will bet good money that words to that effect are in the contract unless Amazon's lawyers are completely out to lunch.
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Broomstick wrote: I think that, from a PR perspective, that notifying the customers prior to the deletion might have prevented much upset. Some of the complaints seem to stem as much from the sudden and unexplained disappearance of something purchased as anything else. Perhaps a note sent saying "We're sorry, but this illegal thing happened and we have to correct it. We apologize for the inconvenience and have refunded your money" might have gone a long way to prevent hard feelings. Or a news release.
A refund you say?
An Amazon spokesman, Drew Herdener, said in an e-mail message that the books were added to the Kindle store by a company that did not have rights to them, using a self-service function. “When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,”
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Re: Amazon Remotely Deletes 1984 From Customers' Kindles

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Stark wrote:Turns out if you do 'your work' in a closed proprietary annotation format on an online-based device, bad things can happen? CLEARLY EV0LZ.
Pick wrote:Oh no, a 17 year old lost all his doodles of cocks notes.
Behold the reason why corporations can run wild and screw over anyone they like. Someone gets screwed by a corporation ? It's their fault ! THEIR needs and desires deserve no respect, while those of a corporation are of overriding importance. It's the same mentality that defends Sony putting rootkits on people's computers. If some corporation breaks your computer, the reaction from many people is "Stop whining !", just as the reaction from you two to the guy who lost his notes is to make fun of him.
Last edited by Lord of the Abyss on 2009-07-19 09:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
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