Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Another MASSIVe update.. I've decided to finish off Space Marine... mainly cuz I want to. The Climax of the battle against the Tyranids... we learn about old Imperial Fist methods of confession.. and Lex grabs for the ring.

Page 210

- mention of the "can-airy" factor - an amusing (but distorted) reference to using canaries as sensory warnings in mines (of poisonous gases or whatnot)


Page 210
Nowadays you had reactive patches to show up poisons, 'suming you could find or trade or steal some;
On Necromunda they use "reactive patches" to detect or alert inividuals to poisonous or noxious dangers.

Page 211
Sure, the Scouts had respirators in their kit, ,but they didn't have full armour because their carapaces weren't meshed in to their nerves yet. Thus they were a kind of litmus, ,a kind of can-airy. And by now the full Marines had their visors open so as to conserve their air tanks. So Biff kept a wary eye on the can-airy Scouts.

Normally, he guessed that Lord Pugh wouldn't have sent Scouts on a first foray into such an enviroment. However, the whole chapter was in on this mission to penetrate a trio of the alien vessels.
One of the reasons scouts do not use full power armor (at least iwth the fists) is that their Black Carapaces are still meshing with their nervous systems. This makes sense, although modern sources add in some stuff about having to "earn' it - it could be that such traditions were based initially upon practicalities (since otherwise this may or may not be considered retconned.)

Page 213
"Lower a sensor down," the Lieutenant odered.

The rune-painted sensor dangled on a fine strong chain like a thurible for burning incense to Rogla Dorn.

Chain ran through Juron's gauntlet as sensor then tether were sucked down through the inner labia of the cyst -

..

"Warp echo here, Sir. This thing's a teleporter."
Portable sensor units. On a chain. That can also detect warp stuff (IE wrp sensors.) Probably passive.

Page 216

- Fist Lieutneannt recovers an alien gun (the Alien in question came from some other Galaxy the Tyranids conquered, and was 14,000 years old) for "future study."

Page 217
Biff tore the skull loose and tossed it away. In rapid succession he thumbed three of the slef-priming, coin size grenades from the dispenser on his plasteel sleeve.
More about marines carrying "coin sized grenades" in dispensers at this time. I do wonder if this could be considered valid, as the Space Wolf novels have them also. Interestingly if these things are as effective as modern grenades, they would be much more compact, and require substantilaly more powerful explosive.

Page 217
"Terminator Librarian Steinmuller advises all squads to thrust blast grenades into any floor cysts they come across. The Captain's Warp-sensitive. HE says this creature is a worm-tangle. Most of its body exists in the Warp - he senses dozens of these feeler openings. The worm's tuned to every native of this ship - because they're all keyed to some strange composite mind. That mind's vaster than this ship, he says. It makes him sick to think how big. All the ships are partt of it. "
Tyranids have their own sorts of compact warp tunnels like the Squats did earlier, or those creatures (as I mentioned iwth the Squats) from the Ghosts novels.

Also, first detection of the Hive Mind.

Page 230
Yeri stared at the armless searchlight dwarfs in a fascination of disgust-

..

"We breed cyborgs," Biff reminded him quietly.

"Ah, but in the Emperor's service," Yeri retorted lightly.
This iteration of Tyranids created bio-orgnaic analogues (more Vong-like in this regard, although even I suspect they wouldn't try fabricaitng some sort of display screen using diffreent colored bugs.). We might consider these "differences" in design or apporach or tactics by the Tyranids over time. (This would probably be considered the more "subtle" approach

Also 'Cyborg" obviously refers to servitors. This was before they decided to change terminology to sound more "gothic/archaic" I imagine.

Page 232
The Lieutenant snapped a lasgun loose from a thigh-holster on his plasteel cuisse. Silver runes embossed the barrel. After adjusting setting and focus deftly with his power glove, he handed the weapon to Lex to do the honours.

..

A searing needle of coherent light lanced from the gun.

Resin cracked.

Resin burst

Slime sprayed.

Steam billowed, assaulting nostrtils with a sour vinegary whiff.
Officers (at least) seem to carry lasguns in the field. Whether this is an alterantive weapon, a backup weapon, or something else, we don't know. It doesnt seem like others have the weapon, as Lex does not have his own lasgun.

It is an interesting concept though that Astartes might carry lasweapons, and one of the things I like about Ian Watson's stories. There should be no reason whty the Astartes would limit themselves to bolters - they are quite versatile warriors and would natrually employ whtever weapons best suit their purposes, and I'd imagine there are time swhen lasers might be better than bolters.

Given enhanced Astartes physique, its likely this laser weapon is bigger and more powerful than what the Guard uses (like their bolt weapons). It also seems to be quite versatile - being able to adjust more than one quality about it, including the focus (wide beam or fan beam options, perhaps?)

And like all Ian Watson novels of this time using las weapons, its a sustained beam effect (cutting, like in Draco) although this implies that they have searing/vaporizing and shock (cracking/fragmenting) effects as well (which is consistnet with all known las weapon effects in later novels.) Although the steam bit might just be mist or fog rather than actual superheated vapor.

Page 233
Lex, who had leapt back cursing in frustration, fumbled with the setting on the lasgun to restore its pristine lance of deathlight.
More of the lasgun having settings, although in this context it implies that there are noncombat settings as well as combat settings.

Page 234
At last the Fists ceased fire. Did any of the aliens, savaged in their embalment, remain alive? The ribbed, ,spattered walls were hung with hundreds of wrecked cadavers which might still twitch, but which surley posed no further threat.
We know bolters might've done this at least, but its possible Lex (using a lasgun) did some of this, suggestng a more explosive setting comparable to what a boltgun might do.

Page 235
No bolts reached the sword-wielder, though.

Those razor-sharp horns swished through the air, aglow, in frenzied circuits, as the warrior advanced. Bolts were simply battereda side by the scintillarting aura of force conjured in mid-air.

..

As the humming monomolecualr edges of their [power] swords met those force-field spinning razor-horns in shuddering collision, rainbow energy cascaded.
Tyranid intercepts bolt rounds in mid-air. Assuming reaction times at least as good as an Astartes - anywhere from one twentieth of a second to several times that at least (Space Wolf) - its possible the Warrior may even have better reflexes. Anyhow, assuming between .05 and .01 seconds (1/20 to 1/100th) for the Warrior, and about ~10 meter distance (roughly right.. might go as high as 20 m though - hard to judge) we can estimate a bolt velocity of anywhere between 200 m/s and 1000 m/s (twice that for a 20 m distance.).

Tyranid warrior is strong enough to physically redirect them too.

Power swords have monomolecular edges (plus the power field?) while the Warirors boneswords have their own psychic force field (simulating power weapon, one assumes)


Page 236
Lex had circled at speed. Firing upward, Lex shattered that grerat-brained head.
Lex is probably using a boltgun here, rather than the lasgun, but either way its blowing apart the Tyranid warrior's head (which is goign to be several times larger than a human head.)

Page 237-238

- introduction of a Zoat, and its use in diplomatic roles. Basically it greets the MArines and offers to be an envoy between them and the Tyranids. It claims that the Tyranids know about the Chaos Gods, and want humanity to join so as to protect themselves against Chaos.

It is tempting to think this is simply a "early" idea of the Tyranids that is retconned out of existence later, but this is not neccesarily required. Remember that the Tyranids are a highly adaptive species, and the Imperium has repelled a number of intrusions by Hive Fleets over the centuries. It could be that the use of "Zoats" and this (relatively) friendlier approach simply reflect some early effort on the parts of the Tyranids to conquer through subterfuge. Its known the Tyranids are quite cunning, ,and they may have figured or hopes they oculd easily trick the sentients of this galaxy into a peaceful resolution (which the Tyranids would take advantage of via ambush.) and the Zoats fufilled that role. Hell, this would be similar to what the Genestealers basically do, and we know they're Tyranid creations (sabotage/subterfuge isn't all THAT different from what tha Zoats probably were for.)

The later, harsher, and more horrific Tyranids of later editions (and years) would simply be the Tyranids using different (and nastier) tactics.

Page 238
"Thanks be to the Great Mind that guides, ,the Masters are immune to corruption!!"

...

"Under the wise guidance of your new Tyranid lords all flesh shall finally be remoulded into pure tools, serving the Tyranid Overmind, which shall expel and quench all this tarnish utterly. You can never achieve that. For the traits of chaotic tarnish are written within you. We can unwrite what was written. We shall delve for your daemons and expunge them! this is our message to you: withdraw, relinquish, yield, and serve. Your stars shall be saved by the Masters!"
Note that the speil of the Zoat echoes very much Genestealer propoganda when they "recruit" - sounding like any number of genestealer cults. This tends to indicate the Tyranids are well versed in propoganda as well as their more direct methods (or their stealthy ones like scouting and sabotage). and that they are more versaitle (and dangerous to underestimate) than we might give them credit for on the surface. Thus, while still essnetially a "human wave tactics" type of enemy (which they do because they can afford to) it is quite possible they can employ other tactics should they wish or noeed to.

Also note the claim of the Hive mind being immune to Chaos.

Page 239
"
You cannot bind the dire Gods of Chaos. Nor can you resist our fleet. Haa, but we shall give you a useful placec within our homes - and we shall purge all taint. For we can extinguish those daemons by altering all the flesh and minds they feed on."
An interesting implication about the vulnerability of 40K humans (and other beings) to Daemons.

Page 239
"Why should we trouble to learn your language?"

"Yeah, how did you manage that trick?"

"Because Marines have assisted us. The Chapter of the Lambs..."

"The Lamenters??"

"Yes, indeed."
The Lamenters apparently did get absorbed. So at least some of the Tyrnaid fleets have Space Marine DNA to play with in some form or another. This must have greatly enhanced their capabiilities. (nevermind considering Astartes + Ork DNA)

Page 247
Running past mobile pouches and snakes, trampling some, knocking other winged scavengers form the air, they arrived at that reluctant, puckered door - and Juron lasered it apartt.

...

A glossy blue chamber yanwed beyond the lasered ribbons of the dying door.
Juron apparently has a lasgun too, and is using it to cut openings in their doorways. No real way to calc it though since we dont know how long it was or how it was cut open (aside from implying ot be sliced apart. If we assume at least one slice on a 3 m or so tall door (possibly larger - it likely has to be big enought o allow all Tyranids through without having to crouch down) a 2 cm wide laser beam (established elsewhere), and a door abut 2-3 cm thick, and that it vaporizes the path of the beam.. at least 2-3 megajoules (nearly a kg of matter affected, more or less depending on exact density used, and ignoring the possibility of their ceramic-like chitin). Does not factor in the possibility of cauterization of the surrounding tissue or other secondary (explosive) effects.

This isn't neccesairly a "per shot" or "per second" estimate, mind.. because we dont know how long they take. Reasonably we could infer that the door is sliced through in seconds to slice through it, so rthe ctual value may only be in the kilojoule range (though still high - hundreds of kilojoules per second output) and we don't know whether there was one slice, multipel slices, or if the door was cut in some other way (like diagnol cuts perhaps. I assume vaporization along the path because its likely a sustained beam (as before, and as I noted with all Watson novels) but one cannot discount the possibility of explosive effects, and the thickness is a guess too, but likely reasonable ones (its less thick than most doors I've seen)

In any case, consider it calc within an order of magnitude or so. Even if I was (somehow) two orders of magnitude off, you'll still get double digit KJ though, which is quite a fucking lot. And this is a one handed weapon, even if Astartes scale (probably).

Its also interesting to wonder why they might be using lasers to slice the odor open rathe than bolts. Fear of overpenetration perhaps, or precision. Bolters are rather indiscriminate weapons (another reson why carrying lasers as well as bolters makes sense.)

Page 249
Those boneswords weren't glowing with an aura, as the other ones had glowed...
The Marines had just blasted apart the psychic organ linking the Tyranids on this ship to the Overmind. Apparently this has adverse effects on their psychic abilities (such as not being able to psychically imbue the boneswords. Whether this means they are cut off from psychic powers or whether they simply cannot focus enough to accomplish the effect is unknown.[/quote]

If this is to be taken as true (and was not retconned) tyranids at this point in time, the source of any Tyranid's psychic abilities is linked intimately with its "parent" vessel (or possibly some other creature.) and they do not generate their own inherent warp abilities (rather they'r elike Orks in this manner, rather than being psykers.) Assuming this got retconned though, we may infer the Tyranids merely redesigned things to eliminate this potential vulnerability (greatre reduncancy, a more decentrailized "network", etc.

In any case this does suggest that aside form warp-based communications between components, they might use some sort of warp-based "power tap/transmission", giving us further hints about how their biowank powers itself or matches inorganic vessels (magic, in other words.)

Page 253
However, Imperial battleships began launching plasma and barrage bombs at other invading coiled leviathans.

How elegantly those human battleships drifted, pulsing out their seethign balls of plasma. Those were vertical cities, ,spiry and crenellated, ghostly in the light frorm distant LAcrima Dolorosa - cities bonded to spear-blade decks that jutted out for a full four kilometres with underslung warp-keels far of the forrard. Quite as much bulk hung below the poop as soared above so that each vessel seemed alfoat upon it sown reflection in a lake of quicksilvered glass.

Long range guided barrage bombs erupted against the towering alien hulls, cracking chambers open.

Throbs of incandescent ionised gas, compressed in containment fields, burst, bringing inferno where atmosphere g ushed, a furnace blaze that imploded inward.

Yet there were a thousand invaders; and from the gaping mouths of the most gargantuan snail-ships there now began to spew a stream of ominous beaked white baby vessels, each the size of a small corvette.

..

Laser batteries on the decks and towers of the cathedraline battleships opened fire, stitching the void.
A bit of starship porn here. Note that like in Harlequin, we find out Imperial "battleships" are 4 km long (as opposed to 4 miles long in Eye of Terror.. odd that). Plasma bombs and barrage bombs appaarently are also longer ranged than laser batteries (more than hundreds of thousands of km?) which we presume may refer to bow torpedo tubes. Also note the "guided" bit. Given the description plasma weapons seem to be plasm contained in some sort of field (so they probably ARe physical munitions, since you cannot have magic containment fields.) They are likely compressed to have greater explosive effect (developing higher pressures)

In the greater scheme of things we could assume the "four kilometers" is only part of the size and refers to the part of the "decks" of the ship not connected ot the "cityscape" bit, but taken literally its obvious Ian Watson meant that battleships are 4 km long (or at least some are.)

And of course numbers of lasers, at least dorsally munted.

1000 warships that emit "corvette sized" sorts of fighters. Possibly tens/hundreds of meters in length.

Page 253
Spread over cubic megaklicks, the battle drifted past the jaundiced gas-giant and its pallid moons, in ward.

..

...still so many hundreds of millions of klicks away was their jungle world still. [from the battle)
Implied volume of the battle is "cubic Megaklicks" - or millions of kilometers in all directions. This does imply as above the combat ranges extend to hundreds of thousands if not millions of kilometers (small wonder they used guided munitions initially), since the Imperial fleet is grouped together and the Tyranids are grouped together (rather than idividual close rnge melees - its a running batlte after all.) And theBattle is occuring throughout the passge of the systme.. suggesting durations of hours/days - which can indicate either high acceleration rates, or tremendous durability, or both, depending on the exact timeframe one settles on.

Page 256
Lo Chang had sat behind a filigree screen, upon a pain-stool - not so much that he should experiencee due anguish at a Brother's admission of shortcomings.. Nay, the constipative pangs induced in the nerves of his buttocks may have been subtly pleasurable... but so that thus he might sympathetically take into himself some of the confessee's misery, then defecate this discomfiture out of his own body, metamorphosed into crass waste matter, fit to be jettisoned.
I won't comment, although saying its absurd and hilarious. It makes me wonder how Watson coudl go from this to write Emo-Draco in the latter books.

Page 259
The Chaplain had waddled from behind the screen towards the consecrated Ablutorium cubicle to relieve himself of the freight of Lexandro's confession.

Frankly those two passages were simply transcribed to share the full horror of Imperial Fist confession. Probably no more worse or absurd than any other method of confession though. i merely include this for humor's sake however, since its unlikely tht this aspect of the Fists would ever last into modern editions (hell we dont knwo any of this about Fist traditions which may last. It'll be intersting to see next year when the Fists novel comes out)

Page 261
The little chamber was, as he had expected, empty of any surgeon interrogators or techpriests. Scientific attention was elsewhere, focused upon the samples and data which Fists had brought back from the Tyranid nautilus ships.
HERESY! The Imperium does not know of science! only the Machien religion!!! They do not experiment or test!

Page 262
Oh, it would be possible for the Chirurgeons to graft new nervewires and snythmusclefibre and pseudoflesh over that armature so as to rebuild his hand. He wasn't crippling himself in the long term.
A more subtle sort of augmetic. One wonders if this was retconned, or if its still valid. Its not neccesariyl contradictory. Lex is getting this augmetic back at base, while I've heard of other, cruder ones being more "in the field." Its possible most Marines keep the field modifications simply because they do not care about the looks, or the field one sare more effective, or more intimidating, or whatever.

I believe other sources have suggested fairly sophisticated augmetic implanst that don't look distinguishable from the real thing too.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by andrewgpaul »

Connor MacLeod wrote: Page 237-238

- introduction of a Zoat, and its use in diplomatic roles. Basically it greets the MArines and offers to be an envoy between them and the Tyranids. It claims that the Tyranids know about the Chaos Gods, and want humanity to join so as to protect themselves against Chaos.

It is tempting to think this is simply a "early" idea of the Tyranids that is retconned out of existence later, but this is not neccesarily required. Remember that the Tyranids are a highly adaptive species, and the Imperium has repelled a number of intrusions by Hive Fleets over the centuries. It could be that the use of "Zoats" and this (relatively) friendlier approach simply reflect some early effort on the parts of the Tyranids to conquer through subterfuge. Its known the Tyranids are quite cunning, ,and they may have figured or hopes they oculd easily trick the sentients of this galaxy into a peaceful resolution (which the Tyranids would take advantage of via ambush.) and the Zoats fufilled that role. Hell, this would be similar to what the Genestealers basically do, and we know they're Tyranid creations (sabotage/subterfuge isn't all THAT different from what tha Zoats probably were for.)

The later, harsher, and more horrific Tyranids of later editions (and years) would simply be the Tyranids using different (and nastier) tactics.

Page 238
"Thanks be to the Great Mind that guides, ,the Masters are immune to corruption!!"

...

"Under the wise guidance of your new Tyranid lords all flesh shall finally be remoulded into pure tools, serving the Tyranid Overmind, which shall expel and quench all this tarnish utterly. You can never achieve that. For the traits of chaotic tarnish are written within you. We can unwrite what was written. We shall delve for your daemons and expunge them! this is our message to you: withdraw, relinquish, yield, and serve. Your stars shall be saved by the Masters!"
Note that the speil of the Zoat echoes very much Genestealer propoganda when they "recruit" - sounding like any number of genestealer cults. This tends to indicate the Tyranids are well versed in propoganda as well as their more direct methods (or their stealthy ones like scouting and sabotage). and that they are more versaitle (and dangerous to underestimate) than we might give them credit for on the surface. Thus, while still essnetially a "human wave tactics" type of enemy (which they do because they can afford to) it is quite possible they can employ other tactics should they wish or noeed to.

Also note the claim of the Hive mind being immune to Chaos.
Actually, the game designers have shown signs of "unretconning" recently. There's this text box from 4th edition Codex: Tyranids:
on page 24 of [i]Codex: Tyranids[/i], Phil Kelly & Andy Chambers wrote:
Forgotten Fleets
Colossus, M38
Several large nomadic fleets of curious, conch-like spacecraft apparently grown from stone were sighted through the Segmentum Tempestus and Ultima late in the 38th millennium, bearing many similarities to hive fleets. The centauroid creatures aboard them were known to communicate, albeit telepathically, with other races - unlike any other Tyranid organism before or since. The denizens of Collossus claimed to be slaves escaping their oppressors, but their frequent contacts with other alien races and attempts to settle in Imperium [sic] space caused them to be declared Xenos Horribilis early in the 39th millennium.

The xenocidal Zorastra-Attila wars followed as the entire race hurled itself against Humanity with terrifying ferocity, revealing their true, murderous nature. The last know Collossus vessel was destroyed by orbital defences above Zorastra in 226.M39. The impact of its shattered remains rendered the northern hemisphere uninhabitable until late in the 41st millennium. Only now are Explorator expeditions beginning to piece together the truth.
Page 253
Quote:
However, Imperial battleships began launching plasma and barrage bombs at other invading coiled leviathans.

How elegantly those human battleships drifted, pulsing out their seethign balls of plasma. Those were vertical cities, ,spiry and crenellated, ghostly in the light frorm distant LAcrima Dolorosa - cities bonded to spear-blade decks that jutted out for a full four kilometres with underslung warp-keels far of the forrard...


A bit of starship porn here. Note that like in Harlequin, we find out Imperial "battleships" are 4 km long (as opposed to 4 miles long in Eye of Terror.. odd that). Plasma bombs and barrage bombs appaarently are also longer ranged than laser batteries (more than hundreds of thousands of km?) which we presume may refer to bow torpedo tubes. Also note the "guided" bit. Given the description plasma weapons seem to be plasm contained in some sort of field (so they probably ARe physical munitions, since you cannot have magic containment fields.) They are likely compressed to have greater explosive effect (developing higher pressures)

In the greater scheme of things we could assume the "four kilometers" is only part of the size and refers to the part of the "decks" of the ship not connected ot the "cityscape" bit, but taken literally its obvious Ian Watson meant that battleships are 4 km long (or at least some are.)
The ships in question are these:
Image

I took it as a reasonable inference that the flat bit at the front was 4km, plus the 'cityscape' at the back adding another 1500m or so.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by white_rabbit »

A more subtle sort of augmetic. One wonders if this was retconned, or if its still valid. Its not neccesariyl contradictory. Lex is getting this augmetic back at base, while I've heard of other, cruder ones being more "in the field." Its possible most Marines keep the field modifications simply because they do not care about the looks, or the field one sare more effective, or more intimidating, or whatever.
Both Ezekiel (Dark angels librarian) and Calgar have the classic huge blocky, multi-lense eye augmetic, Ezekiel keeps his to honour his fallen brethren, he received his augmetic as part of battlefield expedience. Calgar apparently has a far more subtle augmetic that looks like some sort of crystal, but he then attaches a bulkier version on top apparently.

It could be presumed that the field version is more robust, has extra capabilities, perhaps compensates for him not wearing his helmet, for "inspirational" purposes while still having to issue orders and co-ordinate effectively.
Officers (at least) seem to carry lasguns in the field. Whether this is an alterantive weapon, a backup weapon, or something else, we don't know. It doesnt seem like others have the weapon, as Lex does not have his own lasgun.
To be honest, the only thing lacking for marines carrying auxiliary pistols of some form, smaller than bolters etc, is an explicit statement in a modern, non-disavowed source. Those little plastic holsters that we've all got millions of unused have to be something. goddamn it.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

I always thought those holsters were for stub guns or slug throwers. Maybe they were Astartes issue laspistols after all.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Imperial Overlord »

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:I always thought those holsters were for stub guns or slug throwers. Maybe they were Astartes issue laspistols after all.
Marines make use of plasma weapons, lascannons, melta guns, and all sorts of other non bolter weapons as well as all sorts of personal close quarters weapons like frostblades and chain axes. For one of them, especially an officer, to carry a nonstandard pistol doesn't stretch credibility at all.

And a Marine sized hellpistol would be nasty.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Serafina »

Connor MacLeod wrote: Page 216

- Fist Lieutneannt recovers an alien gun (the Alien in question came from some other Galaxy the Tyranids conquered, and was 14,000 years old) for "future study."
Well, that gives us some information how long the Tyranids took to travel to our Galaxy - and about their speed.
Given that Andromeda (the Galaxy closest to ours, excluding dwarf-galaxies) is 2.5 million light-years away, they traveled at a speed of at least 178 light years per year - ~180 times the speed of light, over inter-galactic distances.
Of course, thats a lower limit - it assumes that they took the weapon immedeately before they left the other Galaxy, and that they traveled to the milkyway from Andromeda.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

white_rabbit wrote:
Good point. I hadn't considered durability and thats almost certainly a likely reason. Alternately its a matter of circumstance. Perhaps some augmetics cannot be "interchanged" for some reason or naother (getting a cruder one and then trying to get an improved one at a later date may not be possible due to the connections, wiring, whatever..)
To be honest, the only thing lacking for marines carrying auxiliary pistols of some form, smaller than bolters etc, is an explicit statement in a modern, non-disavowed source. Those little plastic holsters that we've all got millions of unused have to be something. goddamn it.
I vaguely recall that the Forgeworld books mention bolt pistols as a (common) sidearm. It could be a chapter-by-chapter variation.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Imperial Overlord wrote: Marines make use of plasma weapons, lascannons, melta guns, and all sorts of other non bolter weapons as well as all sorts of personal close quarters weapons like frostblades and chain axes. For one of them, especially an officer, to carry a nonstandard pistol doesn't stretch credibility at all.

And a Marine sized hellpistol would be nasty.
There's one chapter mentioned in Warped Stars (Grief Bringers IIRC) that seemed to use only laser and plasma weapons (but that might have been just against that dreadnought thingy.. just Devatsators)

The Long Fangs in.. I think.. the novel Grey Hunter had some sort of antipersonnel laser weapons too.. or at least thats how I interpreted things.

One of the Goto onvels had Marines using man-portable multilasers too, I think.

I'd guess its maybe a Chapter-by-Chapter thing, and the way "alternate" laswepaons are employed varies.

One reason lasers aren't so common could be becuase Astartes seem to frequently have more access to plasma weaponry that lasguns arne't viewed as useful (plasma would be just as versatile in many ways but more powreful, and astartes could maintain them better.)
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Imperial Overlord
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Imperial Overlord »

Lasers probably aren't used as much by Astartes because the alternative options are more attractive.

Astartes have access to high quality plasma weapons and have excellent protection should there be a mishap. Plasma weapons tend to be effective against both vehicles and infantry while the most common laser weapons are either anti infantry or anti armour. Marines do make use of multilasers and lascannons when they think they will be good choices (Land Raider cough cough). Lasers essentially get squeezed out of being widely used weapons because bolters, plasma weapons, and others push them into a smaller "niche" where they are the optimum choice. The Guard, which doesn't have the resources of the Astartes and tends to fight long, drawn out campaigns where cost and logistics are more of an issue.
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Re: Space Marine (novel) analysis and discussion thread

Post by Black Admiral »

Connor MacLeod wrote:One of the Goto onvels had Marines using man-portable multilasers too, I think.
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