Palestinians being stripped of Jordanian Citizenship...

[MKSheppard]

From the Blotter

Jordanian authorities have started revoking the citizenship of thousands of Palestinians living in Jordan to avoid a situation in which they would be "resettled" permanently in the kingdom, Jordanian and Palestinian officials revealed on Monday.

The new measure has increased tensions between Jordanians and Palestinians, who make up around 70 percent of the kingdom's population.

The tensions reached their peak over the weekend when tens of thousands of fans of Jordan's Al-Faisali soccer team chanted slogans condemning Palestinians as traitors and collaborators with Israel. Al-Faisali was playing the rival Wihdat soccer team, made up of Jordanian-Palestinians, in the Jordanian town of Zarqa.

Anti-riot policemen had to interfere to stop the Jordanian fans from lynching the Wihdat team members and their fans, eyewitnesses reported. They said the Jordanian fans of Al-Faisali hurled empty bottles and fireworks at the Palestinian players and their supporters.

Reports in a number of Jordanian newspapers said that the Jordanian fans also chanted anti-Palestinian slogans and cursed Palestine, the PLO, Jerusalem and the Aksa Mosque.

Prince Ali bin Hussein, chairman of Jordan's National Football Association, strongly condemned the racist slurs chanted by the Jordanian fans, saying those responsible would be severely punished.

Baker al-Udwan, director of Al-Faisali team, also condemned the behavior of his team's supporters. He said that a minority of "outcasts" and "corrupt" elements were behind the embarrassing verbal and physical assault on the Palestinian soccer players and their fans.

"We condemn this uncivilized demeanor and welcome any step that would result in the elimination of this tiny group of parasites," he said.

Tarek Khoury, chairman of the Wihdat team, instructed his players to abandon the field as soon as the Jordanian fans started hurling abuse against Palestinians and the Aksa Mosque.

Palestinians said that the confrontation with the Jordanians was yet another indication of increased tensions between the two sides.

"Many Palestinians living in Jordan are convinced that the Jordanian authorities are trying to squeeze them out," said Ismail Jaber, a West Bank lawyer who has been living in the kingdom for nearly 20 years. "There is growing discontent and uncertainty among Palestinians here."

He and other Palestinians said that Jordanians' "hostile" attitude toward them had escalated after the rise to power of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu earlier this year.

Several Jordanian government officials, they said, are convinced that Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman are secretly working toward turning Jordan into a Palestinian state.

As a preemptive measure, the Jordanian authorities recently began revoking the citizenship of thousands of Palestinians, leaving many of them in a state of panic and uncertainty regarding the future.

The Jordanians have justified the latest measure by arguing that it's aimed at avoiding a situation in which the Palestinians would ever be prevented from returning to their original homes inside Israel.

Since 1988, when the late King Hussein cut off his country's administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, the Jordanian authorities have been working toward "disengaging" from the Palestinians under the pretext of preserving their national identity.

That decision, said Jordan's Interior Minister Nayef al-Kadi, was taken at the request of the PLO and the Arab world to consolidate the status of the PLO as the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

"Our goal is to prevent Israel from emptying the Palestinian territories of their original inhabitants," the minister explained, confirming that the kingdom had begun revoking the citizenship of Palestinians.

"We should be thanked for taking this measure," he said. "We are fulfilling our national duty because Israel wants to expel the Palestinians from their homeland."

Kadi said that, despite the new policy, Palestinians would be permitted to retain their status as residents of the kingdom by holding "yellow ID cards" that are issued to those who have families and homes in the West Bank.

He said that Palestinians working for the Palestinian Authority or the PLO were among those who have had their Jordanian passports taken from them, in addition to anyone who did not serve in the Jordanian army.

The Jordanian minister said that the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank had been notified of the decision to revoke the Jordanian citizenship of Palestinians.

A PA official in Ramallah expressed deep concern over Jordan's latest move and said that it would only worsen the conditions of Palestinians living in the kingdom. The official said that PA President Mahmoud Abbas raised the issue with King Abdullah II on a number of occasions, but the Jordanians have refused to retract.

Asked by the London-based Al-Hayat daily where the Palestinians should go after they lose their Jordanian passports, the minister replied: "We're not expelling anyone, nor are we revoking the citizenship of Jordanian nationals. We are only correcting the mistake that was created after Jordan's disengagement from the West Bank [in 1988]. We want to highlight the true identity and nationality of every person."

Kadi claimed that the kingdom was seeking, through the new measure, to thwart an Israeli "plot" to transfer more Palestinians to Jordan with the hope of replacing it with a Palestinian state.

"We insist that Jordan is not Palestine, just as Palestine is not Jordan," he stressed. "We will continue to help the Palestinians hold on to their Palestinian identity by pursuing the implementation of the 1988 disengagement plan from the West Bank."

[Coyote]

Still a bit defensive about the failed 1970 coup attempt by the PLO, I suppose.

[Simon_Jester]

As far as I know, no one in the Middle East actually likes Palestinians or wants to provide them with a home. They're just useful because of their hereditary grievance with Israel, which makes them a good tool for stirring up conflict with Israel, which in turn lets all those states distract their real domestic population from the issues.

[Elfdart]

As far as I know, no one in the Middle East actually likes Palestinians or wants to provide them with a home. They're just useful because of their hereditary grievance with Israel, which makes them a good tool for stirring up conflict with Israel, which in turn lets all those states distract their real domestic population from the issues.

That might be part of it, but most of it is a resentment against large numbers of those people moving into your country -worse still if they're poor and if they stay. The racist bitching about Mexican immigrants in the US is another example.

[Simon_Jester]

Exactly. They don't like Palestinians for the reason you describe; they are considered as unwelcome poor relations at best, and unwelcome foreign refugees with violent internal politics that spill over into your country at worst.

So nobody want a bunch of Palestinians in their country, which is why those permanent Palestinian refugee camps still exist. If the countries around Israel had any interest in or inclination to assimilate Palestinians, there would be no Palestinian refugees.

[Guardsman Bass]

It's still rather bizarre, though, because it's not as if we're just talking about some refugees living in border area refugee camps - more than half of Jordan's population is of Palestinian descent (meaning they either were or are the descendants of refugees from 1948-49), and they've had citizenship since then. Wouldn't trying to boot them effectively cripple Jordan?

[Pelranius]

It's still rather bizarre, though, because it's not as if we're just talking about some refugees living in border area refugee camps - more than half of Jordan's population is of Palestinian descent (meaning they either were or are the descendants of refugees from 1948-49), and they've had citizenship since then. Wouldn't trying to boot them effectively cripple Jordan?

They probably just want to boot out some of the more inconvenient ones who don't roll over fast enough for the authorities.

This is a bit odd though, since I thought an Arab League resolution expressly forbade member states from granting the Palestinians citizenship.

[Guardsman Bass]

The Jordanians gave them (plus the Palestinians in the West Bank, which was under Jordanian control until 1967) citizenship fairly soon after the 1948-49 war, so it's possible that it predates that particular Arab League resolution.

[Elfdart]

Exactly. They don't like Palestinians for the reason you describe; they are considered as unwelcome poor relations at best, and unwelcome foreign refugees with violent internal politics that spill over into your country at worst.

So nobody want a bunch of Palestinians in their country, which is why those permanent Palestinian refugee camps still exist. If the countries around Israel had any interest in or inclination to assimilate Israel would quit killing Palestinians and stealing their land, and hadn't ethnically cleansed them to begin with, there would be no Palestinian refugees.

You stand corrected.

While the host country, to extent that it allows refugees to enter at all, shouldn't mistreat those who seek refuge within their borders, they are under no obligation to grant full rights and citizenship to them. Nor do they have any obligation to help the country that ethnically cleansed the refugees in the first place by absorbing their victims.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Exactly. They don't like Palestinians for the reason you describe; they are considered as unwelcome poor relations at best, and unwelcome foreign refugees with violent internal politics that spill over into your country at worst.

So nobody want a bunch of Palestinians in their country, which is why those permanent Palestinian refugee camps still exist. If the countries around Israel had any interest in or inclination to assimilate Israel would quit killing Palestinians and stealing their land, and hadn't ethnically cleansed them to begin with, there would be no Palestinian refugees.

You stand corrected.

While the host country, to extent that it allows refugees to enter at all, shouldn't mistreat those who seek refuge within their borders, they are under no obligation to grant full rights and citizenship to them. Nor do they have any obligation to help the country that ethnically cleansed the refugees in the first place by absorbing their victims.

Would you have issues with the US not granting equal rights to refugees then? That is, applying your logic elsewhere, after all, a lot of refugees can be less than ideal even on a simple civic level.

[CJvR]

You stand corrected.

Yes there would be Palestinian refugees since the Arab nations, IIRC, specificly asked the Palestinians to get out in 48 and when thing didn't go according to plan they herded the Palestinians into camps.

[Elfdart]

Yes there would be Palestinian refugees since the Arab nations, IIRC, specificly asked the Palestinians to get out in 48 and when thing didn't go according to plan they herded the Palestinians into camps.

You recall incorrectly. They fled because they were being murdered in droves.

[Coyote]

If the countries around Israel had any interest in or inclination to assimilate Israel would quit killing Palestinians and stealing their land, and hadn't ethnically cleansed them to begin with, there would be no Palestinian refugees.

You stand corrected.

While the host country, to extent that it allows refugees to enter at all, shouldn't mistreat those who seek refuge within their borders, they are under no obligation to grant full rights and citizenship to them. Nor do they have any obligation to help the country that ethnically cleansed the refugees in the first place by absorbing their victims.

Be careful, since by that logic we shouldn't allow refugees into America fleeing wars because it's not our problem; but rather the refugees should stay where they're at and put a stop to the war. Or, as mentioned in the thread about granting asylum to women beaten by their husbands, we should tell them to go back since the husband is the one who should stop.

[CJvR]

Oh I think I recall quite correctly enough, although there certainly were enough thugs on the Jewish side to make the threat of a proper ethnic cleansing belivable.

[Elfdart]

Be careful, since by that logic we shouldn't allow refugees into America fleeing wars because it's not our problem;

I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Since when is "no obligation to grant full rights and citizenship" the same as not allowing them into the country? Oh that's right: when you need a strawman.

By the way, the US has routinely shipped refugees back to places like El Salvador and Guatemala, where they face the prospect of being murdered by US-trained death squads.

but rather the refugees should stay where they're at and put a stop to the war. Or, as mentioned in the thread about granting asylum to women beaten by their husbands, we should tell them to go back since the husband is the one who should stop.

Why don't you take your strawman, fold it five ways, and stick it where the sun don't shine?

[Vympel]

This thread is being watched. IvP moratorium is AFAIK still in effect.

[Coyote]

"AAAACK!! PHFLLTHHT!"

If the Palestinians have a right to citizenship in any Arab country, it's Jordan, seeing as how the areas of Palestine and Israel both used to be part of one big stretch of land called "Transjordan". After the failed Hashemite Bedouin attempt to unseat King Faisal of Iraq the British created the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan out of the survivors of their Bedouin clients.

So now, the Hashemite Bedouin ethnic group, which has as much legitimacy to the area of east Jordan as the Israelis have to 'west Jordan'/former Transjordanian Palestine, are pretty much as complicit in denying Palestinians their rights and their land. Your hatred of Israel puts you in the position of tacitly supporting another land grab at the Palestinians' expense.

[Big Phil]

This thread is being watched. IvP moratorium is AFAIK still in effect.

Dude, there's no violation here. Elfy says it's ALL the Jews fault, and no one else's! That's just SOP for Elffart...

If the Palestinians have a right to citizenship in any Arab country, it's Jordan, seeing as how the areas of Palestine and Israel both used to be part of one big stretch of land called "Transjordan". After the failed Hashemite Bedouin attempt to unseat King Faisal of Iraq the British created the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan out of the survivors of their Bedouin clients.

If the Palestinians themselves wanted Jordanian citizenry you might have a solution, however, they don't want to be Jordanian. They want the land that they or their parents/grandparents/great grandparents/great great grandparents used to live on, and want the Israelis gone.

[Simon_Jester]

While the host country, to extent that it allows refugees to enter at all, shouldn't mistreat those who seek refuge within their borders, they are under no obligation to grant full rights and citizenship to them. Nor do they have any obligation to help the country that ethnically cleansed the refugees in the first place by absorbing their victims.

I didn't say they had an obligation to do so. I said they didn't want to do so. There's a difference.
________

And since I'm quite capable of blaming more than one party for the same disaster, I don't think your revision of my argument is notably better than my argument was in the first place; the Israelis created the refugee population, but that doesn't make it untrue or irrelevant to say that no one else in the region wants them much more than the Israelis do.

[Elfdart]

I didn't say they had an obligation to do so. I said they didn't want to do so. There's a difference.

I was referring to this part:

If the countries around Israel had any interest in or inclination to assimilate Palestinians, there would be no Palestinian refugees.

Since when is it Jordan's job to foot the bill for people who were kicked out of another country? Or give them full citizenship? If they want to, good for them.

Large and wealthy countries balk at accepting huge numbers of immigrants of any kind, and Jordan is neither large nor rich. They have another problem as well: If they start accepting all those Palestinians and granting them full citizenship, it would encourage Israel to purge the rest still living in the West Bank.

By the way, you could just as easily make the case that if the US (or any other country, for that matter) had "any interest in or inclination to assimilate Palestinians, there would be no Palestinian refugees". In fact, the case for the US to take them in would be stronger since unlike Jordan, the US government supported their expulsion in the first place and bears some of the responsibility.

[Coyote]

I say we give them Texas, personally.

[Elfdart]

I say we give them Texas, personally.

They can have it. Dick Armey's old district for starters.

[Simon_Jester]

Since when is it Jordan's job to foot the bill for people who were kicked out of another country?

It's not. But their (reasonable) decision not to do so tells us something about their government's real priorities on the question of "what do we do about Palestinians?"

I'm not saying their decision is objectively foolish or unethical. Any government would be likely to do the same. But not every government then proceeds to make political capital out of the plight of the refugees who it denies citizenship to.
______

By the way, you could just as easily make the case that if the US (or any other country, for that matter) had "any interest in or inclination to assimilate Palestinians, there would be no Palestinian refugees".

Yes, I could. Does the US government try use the plight of the Palestinian refugees for political advantage while simultaneously trying to restrict their ability to find refuge in the US?

[CJvR]

Since when is it Jordan's job to foot the bill for people who were kicked out of another country? Or give them full citizenship? If they want to, good for them.

Well Israel did that for the hundreds of thousands of jews driven out by the Arabs, and thats is why there are no camps in Israel for the exiled foreigners from those other countries.

The Arabs could easily have absorbed the Palestinian refuge stream, which they themselves helped cause, but they elected not.

[Simon_Jester]

The Arab states immediately surrounding might have some trouble doing that- the Palestinian refugees would make up quite a substantial chunk of their population. It's not at all hard to understand why they don't want to have to swallow so many refugees.

My complaint is that they effectively trap the refugees between a rock and a hard place, then make the plight of said refugees one of the cornerstones of their entire foreign policy stance. It's not bad policy, but it's hypocritical.