KrauserKrauser hyperventilating(Obama's Gates comment)

[KrauserKrauser]

This just in, Obama gives the finger to the cops!

(CNN) -- President Obama said that police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, "acted stupidly" in arresting a prominent black Harvard professor last week after a confrontation at the man's home.

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said Wednesday night while taking questions after a White House news conference.

Cambridge authorities dropped disorderly conduct charges against Henry Louis Gates Jr. on Tuesday.

Obama defended Gates on Wednesday night, while admitting that he may be "a little biased," because Gates is a friend.

"But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3 ... that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

The incident, Obama said, shows "how race remains a factor in this society." Video Watch the president address the incident »

The mayor of Cambridge said she is going to meet with the city's police chief to make sure the scenario that caused Gates' arrest does not happen again.

"This suggests that something happened that should not have happened," Mayor E. Denise Simmons said on CNN's "American Morning." "The situation is certainly unfortunate. This can't happen again in Cambridge." Video Watch how the mayor plans to handle the situation »

Gates said Simmons called him to apologize.

He told CNN on Wednesday that although charges had been dropped, he will keep the issue alive.

"This is not about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates told CNN's Soledad O'Brien. Have race relations improved since Obama's election?

Gates said he'd be prepared to forgive the arresting officer "if he told the truth" about what the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research said were "fabrications" in the police report.
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The officer, Sgt. James Crowley, told CNN affiliate WCVB earlier Wednesday that he will not apologize.

"There are not many certainties in life, but it is for certain that Sgt. Crowley will not be apologizing," he said.

Gates said the mayor of Cambridge, Massachusetts, called him to apologize about the incident, in which he was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. Video Watch Gates talk about his arrest »

CNN could not confirm Wednesday night that an apology was made. Cambridge Mayor E. Denise Simmons did not respond to requests by CNN for comment.

Crowley wrote in the Cambridge police report that Gates refused to step outside to speak with him, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police.

"While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," Crowley said, according to the report.

Gates was arrested for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space" and was released from police custody after spending four hours at the police station.

He said Wednesday that he and his lawyers were considering further actions, not excluding a lawsuit.
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Gates said that although the ordeal had upset him, "I would do the same thing exactly again."

Earlier this week, a prosecutor dropped the charge against Gates and the city's police department recommended that the matter not be pursued.

So he doesn't know the facts, is biased and what does the genius say?

"They acted stupidly"

Try again retard, I thought they would advise against announcing unfounded personal opinions to the world in Politics 101.

Talk about putting you foot in your mouth, he swallowed and is now savoring the flavor.

[General Zod]

The police did act stupidly. I don't see the problem here or anything in the article that actually suggests Obama didn't have the facts when he made that statement.

[Cairber]

News Story about his conversation with the officer:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... eaded.html

Shortly after the surprise phone call, Sergeant James M. Crowley told a fellow officer that President Obama expressed regret for jumping to conclusions and commenting that Cambridge police had "acted stupidly."

The call pleased Crowley, according to the colleague, a veteran officer who asked not to be identified because he is not authorized to speak publicly about the issue. Crowley told his fellow officer that he joked with the president.

"Jimmy said, 'I'd be happy to come to the White House and sit down with you and Gates and have a beer,' " the veteran Cambridge officer said. "The president said he was acceptable to that."

Crowley also asked President Obama if he could use his influence to oust the news media from his front lawn in Natick. "The president said, 'I can't get them off my front lawn,' and Jimmy said, 'Well, your lawn is a lot bigger than my lawn,' " the officer's colleague said.

Steve Killion, president of the Cambridge patrol officers association, praised the president for calling Crowley only a couple of hours after the news conference where union leaders demanded an apology from Obama.

"I'm sure, knowing Sergeant Crowley, it's mended the fence with him,'' said Killion, who had not spoken with Crowley but heard a transcript of the president's remarks. "It's gone some way toward mending the fence with the patrol officers, even though I haven't spoken with any of them yet.''

Killion said the president has admitted he erred by discussing a case without knowing the details.

"He acknowledges he made a mistake,'' Killion said. "He wasn't there. None of us have the facts. He didn't have the facts. We don't have the facts. We don't know what professor Gates said, what Sergeant Crowley said. I'm absolutely pleased with [Obama's call]. I think it was a good thing for the president to do. He's the commander in chief, he's in charge. Whether or not he should be involved in local politics, he runs the country. We all want to see this behind us.''

Killion said the Cambridge police is a "great police department'' and never engages in racial profiling. He also picked up on Obama's talk of Crowley, Gates and the president sharing a few beers.

"If Sergeant Crowley and President Obama and Mr. Gates sit out on the White House lawn and have a beer, I'd certainly like a picture of it -- and be jealous that it wasn't me,'' Killion said.

More here from Obama at White House press conference:

Page last updated at 21:28 GMT, Friday, 24 July 2009 22:28 UK
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Obama regrets 'stupid' comments
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Barack Obama: "I gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police department"

US President Barack Obama has told reporters he should not have described the arrest of a black Harvard professor as "stupid".

Mr Obama has faced criticism for wading into the controversy during a televised news conference on Wednesday.

Professor Gates was apprehended at his own home after a witness saw him apparently trying to force his way in.

He was held for disorderly conduct after allegedly accusing the arresting officer, Sgt James Crowley, of racism.


I could have calibrated those words differently

Making a surprise appearance at the daily White House press briefing, Mr Obama said he should have chosen his words more carefully at his Wednesday news conference.

"Because this has been ratcheting up and I obviously helped to contribute ratcheting it up, I wanted to make clear in my choice of words I think I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sgt Crowley specifically," Mr Obama said.

"I could have calibrated those words differently," he added.

Mr Obama also revealed that he had spoken to Sgt Crowley on the telephone, and described him as an "outstanding police officer and a good man".

He said he continued to believe that Professor Gates's arrest was "an overreaction", but that "Professor Gates probably overreacted as well".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8168313.stm

[General Zod]

So basically Krauser over-reacted to a two day old article that's already had updates of Obama apologizing? LOL. Who's putting their foot in their mouth now?

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I find the fact that this story has been in the headlines for the past few days irritating.

[General Zod]

I find the fact that this story has been in the headlines for the past few days irritating.

It's because the media loves to hyper-ventilate over anything that looks like a scandal even if it isn't.

[Rahvin]

Crowley wrote in the Cambridge police report that Gates refused to step outside to speak with him, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police.

"While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," Crowley said, according to the report.

Gates was arrested for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space" and was released from police custody after spending four hours at the police station.

So...gates was in his own home, the officer was investigating a break-in, and Gates became outraged that the officer thought he had broken in to his own home, believing that racism had prompted this conclusion.

That all sounds like an unfortunate but perfectly reasonable misunderstanding.

What I'm failing to see here is why Gates was arrested for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space." He was in his own home, wasn't he? What, did stepping out of his home and yelling at the officer in outrage suddenly count?

Either I'm missing something, or the cop had absolutely no justification in arresting Gates. The fact that the charges were almost immediately dropped lends credence to the idea that the officer had no reasonable justification. Id say that arresting someone for "loud and tumultuous behavior" after being accusing that person of breaking into his own home is a perfect example of acting stupidly.

[Crossroads Inc.]

From what I have heard from friends, gates was essentially arrested for "pissing off a Cop"
The fact that charges were dropped leads into this.

Are all cops like this? Of course not.
Would most cops handle things differently? Probably.

If you look at the start of this, Crowley seems in the right.
He sees someone on the grounds of a house where there was a reported break in. He doesn't know who this person is, he could very well be a robber. At this point he is justified in asking for identification an such.
Of course then gates opens the house door. Now, maybe this is a very good robber, maybe he has got a key copy and is just bluffing as home owner. But then, then he goes ahead and shows an ID, which has the current address on it. This, is a bit more difficult to fake, and would be goiong through a lot of trouble for some simple robbery...

In truth. The cop should have left as soon as ID was shown with a "Sorry for the inconvenience" However, Gates didn't help things, Before ID was shown, he made a rather flippant remark to said cop, before presumably saying more heated words.No while I am white, and can't conceive of how Blacks are treated by cops, I would still imagine one might hold his temper. Sure Gates must hjave felt slighted and indignant to be questioned, but up untill you show ID, the cop has a reason to ask for such things.

Really both were at fault here in different ways. Gates shouldn't have been hot headed, and the Cop shouldn't have gone ahead and arrested him. THAT is the only real reason this is in the news, if he had had the goo sense to, lets say give Gates a warning about always showing ID right off the bat, he could have left things there.

Now all of this is only from what I know from stories an such, obviously I don't know the full story, or exactly what words were exchange between gates and Crowley.

EDIT: Additional, on the topic of the Media...
At this point the story is mostly over... Obama had a good decent talk with Crowly, he and his teammates seemed pleased with things, and Gates has had his say as well. Obama said something rather flippant, but handled it quickly and reasonable. Having said that, I have no doubt many on the right will be flogging this for the next week as much as they can.

[LMSx]

Mr Obama also revealed that he had spoken to Sgt Crowley on the telephone, and described him as an "outstanding police officer and a good man".

He said he continued to believe that Professor Gates's arrest was "an overreaction", but that "Professor Gates probably overreacted as well".

Well yeah, but Crowley's overreaction led to a man getting locked up for 4 hours on a stupid charge. Gates might have been obnoxious to a cop, yet as far as I know that's not illegal.

Also: it's amusing to see criticism of a single incident that the police themselves implicitly conceded was a mistake conflated to "Fuck tha Police!".

[The Original Nex]

Can we change the thread title to something less retarded?

While Obama was right that it was stupid for the officer to arrest Gates in his home (if only because the officer should have known the huge uproar it would cause) it was politically stupid for Obama to say it with the press salivating for anything they can pounce on.

The phone calls, I think, are a real show of leadership by the president, and his comments at the briefing only highlight more that this man understands how to lead.

[Mr Bean]

Thread title changed, not HoS'd as KK has yet to make any follow-up comments that qualifiy for HoSing, and aside from the title(Which could be taken humorously) was not that bad. Frankly I expect the Onion to run a news story with KK's title one of these days.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

I read about this in the newspaper today, and while I'm not the biggest fan of the cops, it seems to me that the only stupid actions taken were by Gates. Initally refusing to show ID and becomming beligerent with the officer were both idiotic actions. Especialy yelling at the cop, I'm one of the whitest motherfuckers you'll ever meet and that would get ME cited for disorderly conduct.

Gates should have known better.

[General Zod]

I read about this in the newspaper today, and while I'm not the biggest fan of the cops, it seems to me that the only stupid actions taken were by Gates. Initally refusing to show ID and becomming beligerent with the officer were both idiotic actions. Especialy yelling at the cop, I'm one of the whitest motherfuckers you'll ever meet and that would get ME cited for disorderly conduct.

Gates should have known better.

You aren't compelled to show your ID to the police unless the cop has a reasonable suspicion that you are responsible for committing a crime. In this particular instance, unless the cop in question made it clear to Gates that he was a suspect, there was no compulsion for him to produce an ID as far as I understand it. Once he did produce an ID and proved he was legally on the property the cop should have let matters drop.

[SirNitram]

The charge was Disorderly Conduct? He was in his home, both report. One GIANT problem for the cop.

The statute authorizing prosecutions for disorderly conduct, G.L. c. 272, § 53, has been saved from constitutional infirmity by incorporating the definition of "disorderly" contained in § 250.2(1)(a) and (c) of the Model Penal Code. The resulting definition of "disorderly" includes only those individuals who, "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof ... (a) engage in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or ... (c) create a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.' "Public" is defined as affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access.

You can't arrest for disorderly conduct if they're in their own house, unless the house is a public place. A university's professor's personal home is not. Black letter law, the cop was out of line.

[Kamakazie Sith]

You aren't compelled to show your ID to the police unless the cop has a reasonable suspicion that you are responsible for committing a crime. In this particular instance, unless the cop in question made it clear to Gates that he was a suspect, there was no compulsion for him to produce an ID as far as I understand it. Once he did produce an ID and proved he was legally on the property the cop should have let matters drop.

That's something we won't know for sure. However, I can tell you that common practice is to inform someone up front of the purpose why you are there. An example would be "Sir, we're investigating a report of a burglary at this residence. Do you have identification?"

**I did a bit of searching and this is what I found.**

If the police report is to be believed then Sgt. Crowley did inform Prof. Gates of the investigation and after his identity was produced and Sgt. Crowley went to leave Prof. Gates followed Sgt. Crowley out of his home and continued to berate him.

Here's the actual report Police report

The report is frankly damning to Gates position. Gates is 95% at fault for this, but I think Sgt. Crowley should have simply told him to fuck off or instead issue him a citation. Instead he warned Gates twice and in that warning he included the consequences which Gates choose to ignore.

So, I checked around for Gates side of the story and I found a huge pile of bullshit. Here's a interesting quote...

So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering.

Emphasis mine. Either Gates has the worst lawyer ever or he's trying desperately to justify his reaction. There's no way Sgt. Crowley could legally arrest Gates for breaking and entering into his own house after his identification was established. That is fucking retarded.

Anyway, the rest of the second linked article goes on to tell a different side to the story which if true would put Sgt. Crowley in the wrong. So, how do we know who is telling the truth. Gone are the days that a police officers word is pure gold, and for good reason, but this would also be why the charges against Gates were dropped.

Just my two cents.

[Gil Hamilton]

With respect, of course the police report is damning to Gates. The officer who arrested him wrote it and he's not a neutral party. Secondly, even if Gates left his home and was mad at the police officer, since when is that a crime?

[Kamakazie Sith]

With respect, of course the police report is damning to Gates. The officer who arrested him wrote it and he's not a neutral party. Secondly, even if Gates left his home and was mad at the police officer, since when is that a crime?

I realize this, just as Gates side of the story is damning to Sgt. Crowley. Here you have two people that are respected members of the community. Sgt. Crowley sounds like a respectable officer, and Gates sounds like a respectable man. I agree with Obama's overall assessment that both could have taken action to de-escalate.

Being mad isn't a crime. Acting in such a manner that your behavior meets the elements for disorderly conduct is a crime. Though I do think Crowley went overboard by booking him into jail. I'd have just issue the guy a misdemeanor citation, if I really felt compelled to do so, and then left. Really, someone like Gates acting in such an immature manner isn't worth our time.

[SirNitram]

As I quoted, there's no such thing in the state in question as disorderly conduct in your own home. Insisting the man come out so you can arrest him... Isn't that called 'entrapment'? Or is there another term for inciting a move that would be criminal?(This even generously assumes just outside of the house counts as 'public', and not, you know, part of the property!)

[Tiriol]

As I quoted, there's no such thing in the state in question as disorderly conduct in your own home. Insisting the man come out so you can arrest him... Isn't that called 'entrapment'? Or is there another term for inciting a move that would be criminal?(This even generously assumes just outside of the house counts as 'public', and not, you know, part of the property!)

The police report doesn't say or imply that the officer in question would have wanted to arrest Gates; instead, he simply wanted to leave the residence in question and since Gates still seemed keen on knowing Sergeant Crowley's name, Crowley offered him a chance to ask it outside, where Gates continued to berate and insult him as a racist (and implied some dire consequences). So it itsn't entrapment, if we go by police report. Of course, Mr. Gates's own statement is different and in it Crowley acted in a much more unbecoming manner. Which one is the true account of the situation? I do not know. However, there seemed to be enough witnesses to tell us that, if they could be interviewed. But unless Mr. Gates intends to sue Sgt. Crowley or the police department, I don't believe anyone is going to interview the witnesses.

[General Zod]

As I quoted, there's no such thing in the state in question as disorderly conduct in your own home. Insisting the man come out so you can arrest him... Isn't that called 'entrapment'? Or is there another term for inciting a move that would be criminal?(This even generously assumes just outside of the house counts as 'public', and not, you know, part of the property!)

The police report doesn't say or imply that the officer in question would have wanted to arrest Gates; instead, he simply wanted to leave the residence in question and since Gates still seemed keen on knowing Sergeant Crowley's name, Crowley offered him a chance to ask it outside, where Gates continued to berate and insult him as a racist (and implied some dire consequences). So it itsn't entrapment, if we go by police report. Of course, Mr. Gates's own statement is different and in it Crowley acted in a much more unbecoming manner. Which one is the true account of the situation? I do not know. However, there seemed to be enough witnesses to tell us that, if they could be interviewed. But unless Mr. Gates intends to sue Sgt. Crowley or the police department, I don't believe anyone is going to interview the witnesses.

I don't see the problem with asking Crowley's name. The police are obligated to show people their badge number and ID if asked to do so, there's no legitimate reason for Crowley to have wanted him to come outside to do this.

[Tiriol]

As I quoted, there's no such thing in the state in question as disorderly conduct in your own home. Insisting the man come out so you can arrest him... Isn't that called 'entrapment'? Or is there another term for inciting a move that would be criminal?(This even generously assumes just outside of the house counts as 'public', and not, you know, part of the property!)

The police report doesn't say or imply that the officer in question would have wanted to arrest Gates; instead, he simply wanted to leave the residence in question and since Gates still seemed keen on knowing Sergeant Crowley's name, Crowley offered him a chance to ask it outside, where Gates continued to berate and insult him as a racist (and implied some dire consequences). So it itsn't entrapment, if we go by police report. Of course, Mr. Gates's own statement is different and in it Crowley acted in a much more unbecoming manner. Which one is the true account of the situation? I do not know. However, there seemed to be enough witnesses to tell us that, if they could be interviewed. But unless Mr. Gates intends to sue Sgt. Crowley or the police department, I don't believe anyone is going to interview the witnesses.

I don't see the problem with asking Crowley's name. The police are obligated to show people their badge number and ID if asked to do so, there's no legitimate reason for Crowley to have wanted him to come outside to do this.

Nor did I say that there is problem with asking a police officer's name. However, according to the report Sgt. Crowley was under physical pain because of Gates's shouting inside the house, which was also why he wanted to leave the residence. It was after this that Crowley warned Gates, twice, about his conduct.

As one can see, Gates's account is very different from the police record. Which one is the correct one is the question here.

[General Zod]

Nor did I say that there is problem with asking a police officer's name. However, according to the report Sgt. Crowley was under physical pain because of Gates's shouting inside the house, which was also why he wanted to leave the residence. It was after this that Crowley warned Gates, twice, about his conduct.

As one can see, Gates's account is very different from the police record. Which one is the correct one is the question here.

Under physical pain because of "shouting"? That sounds like bullshit to me.

[Tiriol]

Nor did I say that there is problem with asking a police officer's name. However, according to the report Sgt. Crowley was under physical pain because of Gates's shouting inside the house, which was also why he wanted to leave the residence. It was after this that Crowley warned Gates, twice, about his conduct.

As one can see, Gates's account is very different from the police record. Which one is the correct one is the question here.

Under physical pain because of "shouting"? That sounds like bullshit to me.

How many times have you stood face to face with someone who screams and shouts at you in a room, which according to the report, amplified the noise? It can get irritating and painful very quickly. Not all pain needs to come from a physical contact.

[Flagg]

God but cops as a group are whiny bitches. Oh boo hoo the President commented on what a fucking idiot one cop is, we should all take this personally!

[Kamakazie Sith]

As I quoted, there's no such thing in the state in question as disorderly conduct in your own home. Insisting the man come out so you can arrest him... Isn't that called 'entrapment'? Or is there another term for inciting a move that would be criminal?(This even generously assumes just outside of the house counts as 'public', and not, you know, part of the property!)

Where are you getting that he insisted he come outside so he could be arrested? It's common for police who are alone to talk to suspects outside a dwelling because it is safer.