Christian Right at it again (in Texas of all places)

[wautd]

Damn extremists

Christian right aims to change history lessons in Texas schools

State's education board to consider adding Christianity's role in American history to curriculum

The Christian right is making a fresh push to force religion onto the school curriculum in Texas with the state's education board about to consider recommendations that children be taught that there would be no United States if it had not been for God.

Members of a panel of experts appointed by the board to revise the state's history curriculum, who include a Christian fundamentalist preacher who says he is fighting a war for America's moral soul, want lessons to emphasise the part played by Christianity in the founding of the US and that religion is a civic virtue.

Opponents have decried the move as an attempt to insert religious teachings in to the classroom by stealth, similar to the Christian right's partially successful attempt to limit the teaching of evolution in biology lessons in Texas.

One of the panel, David Barton, founder of a Christian heritage group called WallBuilders, argues that the curriculum should reflect the fact that the US Constitution was written with God in mind including that "there is a fixed moral law derived from God and nature", that "there is a creator" and "government exists primarily to protect God-given rights to every individual".

Barton says children should be taught that Christianity is the key to "American exceptionalism" because the structure of its democratic system is a recognition that human beings are fallible, and that religion is at the heart of being a virtuous citizen.

Another of the experts is Reverend Peter Marshall, who heads his own Christian ministry and preaches that Hurricane Katrina and defeat in the Vietnam war were God's punishment for sexual promiscuity and tolerance of homosexuals. Marshall recommended that children be taught about the "motivational role" of the Bible and Christianity in establishing the original colonies that later became the US.

"In light of the overwhelming historical evidence of the influence of the Christian faith in the founding of America, it is simply not up to acceptable academic standards that throughout the social studies (curriculum standards) I could only find one reference to the role of religion in America's past," Marshall wrote in his submission.

Marshall later told the Wall Street Journal that the struggle over the history curriculum is part of a wider battle. "We're in an all-out moral and spiritual civil war for the soul of America, and the record of American history is right at the heart of it," he said.

Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network, which describes itself as a "counter to the religious right", called the recommendations "troubling".

"I don't think anyone disputes that faith played a role in our history. But it's a stretch to say that it played the role described by David Barton and Peter Marshall. They're absurdly unqualified to be considered experts. It's a very deceptive and devious way to distort the curriculum in our public schools," he said.

Quinn says that the issue is likely to lead to a heated political battle similar to the one in which the religious right tried to force creationism onto the curriculum. While it wasn't able to inject religious theories in to the classroom, the Texas school board did make changes to teaching designed to undermine lessons on evolution such as introducing views that the eye is so complex an organ it must have involved "intelligent design".

"I think, as there was with science, there's going to be a big political battle," he said.
Social studies teachers will meet shortly to consider the panel's views and make their own recommendations to the board of education which has the final say. The board is dominated by conservatives who appointed Barton and Marshall to the panel.

Other states will be watching what happens in Texas carefully as the religious right campaign seeks new ways to insert God in to the classroom after the courts limited the extent to which creationist theories could intrude on the teaching of biology. But religion is not kept out of schools entirely. Many children recite the pledge of allegiance in class each morning which includes a reference to the US as "one nation under God".

The panel made other recommendations.

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

And while God may be in, some of those he influenced are out.

According to a draft of guidelines for the new curriculum, Washington, Lincoln and Stephen Fuller Austin, known as the Father of Texas after helping to lead it to independence from Mexico, have been removed from history lessons for younger children.

There's no doubt that history education needs a boost in Texas.

According to test results, one-third of students think the Magna Carta was signed by the Pilgrims on the Mayflower and 40% believe Lincoln's 1863 emancipation proclamation was made nearly 90 years earlier at the constitutional convention.

[Formless]

One of the panel, David Barton, founder of a Christian heritage group called WallBuilders, argues that the curriculum should reflect the fact that the US Constitution was written with God in mind including that "there is a fixed moral law derived from God and nature", that "there is a creator" and "government exists primarily to protect God-given rights to every individual".

Have these assholes even read the constitution?! What, did they have god in mind when they said "the government shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion?"

This is insane.

[Thanas]

^It is a misrepresentation of the fact that many of the writers were Deists and drew from deistic morals.

Of course, being the idiots they are, they go Deist=Christian=god-given morals=constitutions is a document co-written by god, when every single one of those "logical" connenctions is unproven at best.

[Samuel]

"government exists primarily to protect God-given rights to every individual".

The government exists to serve its citizen's not to protect their rights. That would be the job of the court system.

Christianity is the key to "American exceptionalism" because the structure of its democratic system is a recognition that human beings are fallible, and that religion is at the heart of being a virtuous citizen.

And a hearty "fuck you" to Latin America.

who heads his own Christian ministry and preaches that Hurricane Katrina and defeat in the Vietnam war were God's punishment for sexual promiscuity and tolerance of homosexuals.

The rest of the world only exists as America's playthings? I'm sure the million dead Vietnamese might be a bit pissed about that.

Marshall recommended that children be taught about the "motivational role" of the Bible and Christianity in establishing the original colonies that later became the US.

It was important. The Puritans came to this new land in order to establish some of the most oppresive religious control the world had ever seen. Rhode Island was founded by people who were kicked out of there and others also had a religious backround. Not that it is necesarily a good thing in alot of cases.

"In light of the overwhelming historical evidence of the influence of the Christian faith in the founding of America, it is simply not up to acceptable academic standards that throughout the social studies (curriculum standards) I could only find one reference to the role of religion in America's past,"

Simple- it isn't that important. Textbooks have limited room and adding this isn't worth the amount of compreshension versus the amount of room required.

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

According to test results, one-third of students think the Magna Carta was signed by the Pilgrims on the Mayflower and 40% believe Lincoln's 1863 emancipation proclamation was made nearly 90 years earlier at the constitutional convention.

[Kodiak]

If we framed it like this though:

The clerical hierarchy is making a fresh push to force religion onto the school curriculum in Iran with the state's education board about to consider recommendations that children be taught that there would be no Iran if it had not been for Allah.

Members of a panel of experts appointed by the board to revise the state's history curriculum, who include a radical Islamic Imam who says he is fighting a war for Iran's moral soul, want lessons to emphasise the part played by Islam in the founding of Iran and that religion is a civic virtue.

When it's using Islam instead of Christianity, it turns into something that Americans would rail against and would call evil- yet, when it's Christians it's just "good ol' fashioned values." I'm terrified of the prospect of religious doctrine being taught as science in my children's schools.

[Simon_Jester]

I wonder how far they could push this before it backfired. It's not as if the only place for kids to ever learn anything these days is in school.

Anyone here in their twenties who went through the US school system might remember DARE, the anti-drug program? Imagine a "role of religion in American history" unit that was constructed that intelligently, and what the effect on students would be...

[Patrick Degan]

This is why it's just so fucking easy to simply go "HUR HUR TEXASS" every time a story like this comes out of Texas, because that state just goes to every conceivable length to live down to the caricature of it you see in King Of The Hill.

BTW, did anybody notice the amusing contradiction in which, on the one hand, David Barton says:

Barton says children should be taught that Christianity is the key to "American exceptionalism" because the structure of its democratic system is a recognition that human beings are fallible, and that religion is at the heart of being a virtuous citizen.

But then he turns around and then says:

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

So.... Children should be taught that Christianity is the basis of a democratic system, but then should no longer be taught democratic values because we pledge allegiance to the republic. Or perhaps he would prefer it that we pledge allegiance to the Republican Party...?

People like this are really only just one step away from declaring that democracy = communism.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, it is time to start donating more time and money to the TFN... God damn it. I have to fix these god damn students when they come to college.

[Eulogy]

Well, it is time to start donating more time and money to the TFN... God damn it. I have to fix these god damn students when they come to college.

Not to hijack this thread, but just how hard and time-consuming is it to unteach the victims of the school system of the fairy tales they're been taught as fact?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, it is time to start donating more time and money to the TFN... God damn it. I have to fix these god damn students when they come to college.

Not to hijack this thread, but just how hard and time-consuming is it to unteach the victims of the school system of the fairy tales they're been taught as fact?

It hurts. Oh sweet non-existent Jesus does it hurt. I have to take a good half my teaching time reteaching them what the greek letter Sigma means in math when going over T tests. Put it that way.

[Simon_Jester]

In that case, you're trying to cover a gap in their education because they wasted time on something else. Possibly on the previous teacher having to reteach them something they didn't know when they should have been learning about summation conventions. You don't even have to worry about deprogramming them so they'll stop believing fairy tales.

I imagine that replacing fake knowledge is even harder than replacing the absence of knowledge.

[Alyrium Denryle]

In that case, you're trying to cover a gap in their education because they wasted time on something else. Possibly on the previous teacher having to reteach them something they didn't know when they should have been learning about summation conventions. You don't even have to worry about deprogramming them so they'll stop believing fairy tales.

I imagine that replacing fake knowledge is even harder than replacing the absence of knowledge.

No no. You dont understand. That is only the half of it. I get to do Both.

[Molyneux]

Well, it is time to start donating more time and money to the TFN... God damn it. I have to fix these god damn students when they come to college.

Not to hijack this thread, but just how hard and time-consuming is it to unteach the victims of the school system of the fairy tales they're been taught as fact?

It hurts. Oh sweet non-existent Jesus does it hurt. I have to take a good half my teaching time reteaching them what the greek letter Sigma means in math when going over T tests. Put it that way.

Wait...what? Isn't Sigma just the symbol for summation? The only other use I can think of for it is frat/sorority stuff, but that wouldn't be a factor until they get to college.

[Rye]

Hahah. How deliciously Orwellian, rewriting the past in accordance with the Church's present desire for "moral solidarity" and political power.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Wait...what? Isn't Sigma just the symbol for summation? The only other use I can think of for it is frat/sorority stuff, but that wouldn't be a factor until they get to college.

That is correct. Look, the TX education system is fucked. I know, I have to teach what it graduates... As a result, I am going to (if this passes which knowing TX it probably will. Dominionist sacks of shit.) have to deal with students that have been taught that Christianity is responsible for all that is good, AND have an overinflated sense of self-importance vis a vis American Exceptionalism. Things will get special, and not the amusing "I like to hug strangers" sort of special.

[Eulogy]

Wait...what? Isn't Sigma just the symbol for summation? The only other use I can think of for it is frat/sorority stuff, but that wouldn't be a factor until they get to college.

That is correct. Look, the TX education system is fucked. I know, I have to teach what it graduates... As a result, I am going to (if this passes which knowing TX it probably will. Dominionist sacks of shit.) have to deal with students that have been taught that Christianity is responsible for all that is good, AND have an overinflated sense of self-importance vis a vis American Exceptionalism. Things will get special, and not the amusing "I like to hug strangers" sort of special.

Zombie Jesus buttfucking christ.

Your only two solaces are 1 ) You can flunk these failed miscarriages, and 2 ) When/If they enter the Real World, reality will bite them in the ass and keep biting as long as they hold that horseshit inside their decorative skulls. They may think that you're in league with the devil, but hey! At least you CAN do that!

[Surlethe]

^It is a misrepresentation of the fact that many of the writers were Deists and drew from deistic morals.

Of course, being the idiots they are, they go Deist=Christian=god-given morals=constitutions is a document co-written by god, when every single one of those "logical" connenctions is unproven at best.

These people think that the US founders were evangelical Bible-believers like them. Perhaps because their entire worldview depends on their ignorance of this fact, they don't know that evangelicalism in its current form didn't exist until the 1950s, when it diverged from proto-fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, in fact, didn't even exist until the late 1800s. Hell, the evangelical precursor to fundamentalism didn't exist until the Second Great Awakening! (In fact, baptists did not exist as a denomination until the 1740s and the First Great Awakening - in time to perhaps have influenced the Constitution, except that it was the denomination of poor southern folks.) The beliefs and mode of worship of modern denominations that claim spiritual descendence from the founding fathers would seem completely alien to them; their real (denominational) descendants are the Congregationalists of New England, the Episcopalians, and the other traditional Protestant churches.

It also occurred to me a few weeks ago as we sat through (for the sake of research) a firey Southern Baptist sermon on why the United States was founded on the Bible: setting aside the question of whether the US ought to adhere to the founders' vision because it is their vision, how does anyone think they can get a good picture of an individual person's beliefs from reading a few quotes that were almost certainly cherrypicked? That goes both ways, but because their interpretation of the founders' beliefs goes against the historical consensus the evangelicals are certainly the more egregious offenders. How do they really honestly think they are accurate in assessing George Washington as a strong believer in and defender of the Bible on the basis of a paragraph in one speech he gave, for instance?

[Simon_Jester]

No no. You dont understand. That is only the half of it. I get to do Both.

OK, so you're both filling in holes in their knowledge and having to replace bad patches of falsehood that paper over existing holes.

So have they been misinformed about what sigma means, or about something else? I find it astounding that someone could have been specifically taught to misunderstand summation, but I always had pretty good math teachers.

[Samuel]

What AD is saying is they were never taught what it means. Which, given you can't go 2 steps in calculus without seeing it, is terrifying.

[Darth Yoshi]

Hold on. If they were never taught, then Aly wouldn't need to re-teach them what Sigma is. Either way, I'm not surprised.

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

Oh wow, talk about irony. The whole reason the US was set up as a republic and not a direct democracy in the first place was because the masses are fucking stupid. Thank you for proving that, numbnuts. Of course, that's less of a solution when everyone in a given polity is fucking stupid.

[Themightytom]

^It is a misrepresentation of the fact that many of the writers were Deists and drew from deistic morals.

Of course, being the idiots they are, they go Deist=Christian=god-given morals=constitutions is a document co-written by god, when every single one of those "logical" connenctions is unproven at best.

These people think that the US founders were evangelical Bible-believers like them. Perhaps because their entire worldview depends on their ignorance of this fact, they don't know that evangelicalism in its current form didn't exist until the 1950s, when it diverged from proto-fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, in fact, didn't even exist until the late 1800s. Hell, the evangelical precursor to fundamentalism didn't exist until the Second Great Awakening! (In fact, baptists did not exist as a denomination until the 1740s and the First Great Awakening - in time to perhaps have influenced the Constitution, except that it was the denomination of poor southern folks.) The beliefs and mode of worship of modern denominations that claim spiritual descendence from the founding fathers would seem completely alien to them; their real (denominational) descendants are the Congregationalists of New England, the Episcopalians, and the other traditional Protestant churches.

It also occurred to me a few weeks ago as we sat through (for the sake of research) a firey Southern Baptist sermon on why the United States was founded on the Bible: setting aside the question of whether the US ought to adhere to the founders' vision because it is their vision, how does anyone think they can get a good picture of an individual person's beliefs from reading a few quotes that were almost certainly cherrypicked? That goes both ways, but because their interpretation of the founders' beliefs goes against the historical consensus the evangelicals are certainly the more egregious offenders. How do they really honestly think they are accurate in assessing George Washington as a strong believer in and defender of the Bible on the basis of a paragraph in one speech he gave, for instance?

You mean like the Sermon on the mount which conveniently boils down all the teachings of Christ into "Love God, Love they neighbor"? Come one, we're Americans, we love simplicity, History and science is so frustratingly complex. How can you propose forcing our children through all of that angst when they can just grow up Republican, and declare war on anything that disagrees?

And then when INDIA gets fed up with us in a few generations and curbstomps us it will obviously be the apocalypse and God is here. Do you want our children to be unprepared for this????

History is getting awfully murky in the digital age, I remember in first grade we learned about "Folk tales" one was paul Bunyan, another was that George washington chopped down a cherry tree and reported it hoenstly to his father. Thats right GIANT BLUE OX and founding father telling the truth were in the same story.

And yet I had a teenager tell me the other day that that story was part of history that was being supressed by Libral democrats... the kid is like twelve years behind me in the school system, and a folk tale has evolved from story to fact to suppressed fact?

[Patrick Degan]

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

Oh wow, talk about irony. The whole reason the US was set up as a republic and not a direct democracy in the first place was because the masses are fucking stupid. Thank you for proving that, numbnuts. Of course, that's less of a solution when everyone in a given polity is fucking stupid.

Yes, but consider what this nanoceph is actually saying: he opposes teaching democratic values —among which are the concepts of cooperation and compromise, without which a society can't even function at all— to the children who will grow up to one day take their place in that society. Effectively, this clown not only wants a polity who are stupid but borderline-sociopathic as well.

[Molyneux]

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

Oh wow, talk about irony. The whole reason the US was set up as a republic and not a direct democracy in the first place was because the masses are fucking stupid. Thank you for proving that, numbnuts. Of course, that's less of a solution when everyone in a given polity is fucking stupid.

Yes, but consider what this nanoceph is actually saying: he opposes teaching democratic values —among which are the concepts of cooperation and compromise, without which a society can't even function at all— to the children who will grow up to one day take their place in that society. Effectively, this clown not only wants a polity who are stupid but borderline-sociopathic as well.

I figured that he was more mistaking democracy and republicanism for the D and R parties...which is even more idiotic.

[Patrick Degan]

Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said.

Oh wow, talk about irony. The whole reason the US was set up as a republic and not a direct democracy in the first place was because the masses are fucking stupid. Thank you for proving that, numbnuts. Of course, that's less of a solution when everyone in a given polity is fucking stupid.

Yes, but consider what this nanoceph is actually saying: he opposes teaching democratic values —among which are the concepts of cooperation and compromise, without which a society can't even function at all— to the children who will grow up to one day take their place in that society. Effectively, this clown not only wants a polity who are stupid but borderline-sociopathic as well.

I figured that he was more mistaking democracy and republicanism for the D and R parties...which is even more idiotic.

Oh I'm sure he probably doing that as well in whatever process passes for "thinking" in Barton's mind: "democratic" values = "Democratic Party" values = TEH EEEEEVULZ SOCIALIZMZ. But in any case, considering the absolutism of Bible literalists, you can see that ideas like cooperation and compromise would be utterly foreign to him, if not actually regarded as weaknesses or even dangers. And when he gets the society he wants in which the kids were not taught the values he despises, a society with a large underclass of uneducated thugs with no stake in anything, his likely formula for that problem is quite predictable: more prisons/more cops/more zero-tolerance laws.

[RedImperator]

Anyone here in their twenties who went through the US school system might remember DARE, the anti-drug program? Imagine a "role of religion in American history" unit that was constructed that intelligently, and what the effect on students would be...

Judging by the actual effects of DARE, I would imagine such a program would increase the number of atheists in this country. You picked a bad example: DARE was such a fiasco the Bush Administration admitted it didn't work. Here.