Fun With: Ruining a World

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Serafina »

KroLazuxy_87 wrote:Option A:
Slowly manipulate all the world's religions into predicting the apocalypse and watch societies tear themselves apart. (Sadly, I think with enough know-how, man power, and some luck, this wouldn't be too hard)

Option B:
Step 1. Birth A.I.
Step 2. Realize I've forgotten to program it to obey humans.
Step 3. Die

Option C:
Discover all those "smart-people" at the LHC were wrong, and a continuously growing black hole is created.
All those options are horribly impractical and beyond reasonable influence.

Option A would require the world (it is only earth-like, not earth itself) to have such superstitions, and the inhabitants to have the necessary weaponery AND use it - basically, they have to have a shitload of nukes.
Besides, it is horribly impractical.

Option B - well, why should the A.I. immedeatly want to wipe out humanity? Where does it get the assets to do so? And even if it does want to do so and can do it, why should this make the planet uninhabitable?

Option C would require the laws of physics to change - simple observation tells us that LHC-style collisions happen all the time in the upper atmosphere.
And even if it was possible, you can not influence it - and if you can change the laws of physics as you want, wiping out a planet is no problem, anyway.


The best options are to either nuke the planet, or dropping some asteroids on it.
Every civilistation that is able to travel interstellar distances should be able to do that. Moving asteroids is as simple sa strapping a drive on them and propelling them towards the planet - and we can do the nuking thing right now.

If you want to get exotic, you could try to move the planet itself - it will propably take a long time, be hterribly impractial and expensive, but it would make it an inhabitable, frozen (or molten) planet.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
RedImperator
Roosevelt Republican
Posts: 16465
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by RedImperator »

Stephen Baxter once suggested a genetically engineered bacterium that fixed chlorine from salt, released into a planetary ocean. In the book in question (Manifold Space), the entire planet's atmosphere was like a WWI battlefield, and it had been this way long enough for life to adapt to this (the trees were made of naturally evolved PVC and small animals used puffs of concentrated chlorine gas to defend themselves). Of course, this had to wait until after the previous biosphere was almost entirely destroyed. It's obviously analogous to the Oxygen Catastrophe.
Image
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

rhoenix wrote:Setting: Earth-like world (same specifics where necessary).
Scenario: Fuck this world up to become inhospitable to human life for at least a few thousand years.

Caveats: You may only use what hard sci-fi would allow you (e.g. what's possible with today's technology).

So - how would you do it? I'm looking for variety here, so the more ideas, the better. In terms of this scenario, even inefficient mechanisms would be acceptable - so throw out your ideas.


As always, my thanks in advance.
Step one, find a very large asteroid. 100 km diameter.
Step two, bolt on a lot of mass drivers.
Step three, accelerate for a very long time.
Step four, wait for asteroid and planet to intersect.
Step five, Base Delta Zero. Planet is ruined for . . . well, pretty much everyone until the crust re-solidifies and the steam that used to the the oceans precipitates out of the atmosphere. This will take many thousands of years.

Plan two:
Step one, build a large self-replicating VNM.
Step two, wait a couple thousand years for VNMs to consume the planet.
Step three, deactivate all VNMs.
Step four, assemble VNM shells into orbital structures such as habitats or accelerator rings for antimatter production. Planet is ruined . . . well, there's no more planet, so forever. But you've dramatically increased the usefulness of the planet's mass worth of material.

Plan three:
Step one, build stupendously huge fusion rocket.
Step two, drop stupendously huge fusion rocket into Neptune-sized planet, if one exists.
Step three, use stupendously huge fusion rocket to gradually alter the gas giant's orbit.
Step four, wait for gas giant and terrestrial planet to . . .
Step four-A, . . . intersect. Farewell planet.
Step four-B, . . . interact in a gravitational way. Planet either moved into an uninhabitable orbit, ejected from the starsystem, or dropped into the local star.

Note that plans two and three will take a very long time to accomplish.
User avatar
KroLazuxy_87
Padawan Learner
Posts: 196
Joined: 2009-06-11 10:35pm
Location: Indiana, Pennsylvania

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by KroLazuxy_87 »

Serafina wrote:
KroLazuxy_87 wrote:Option A:
Slowly manipulate all the world's religions into predicting the apocalypse and watch societies tear themselves apart. (Sadly, I think with enough know-how, man power, and some luck, this wouldn't be too hard)

Option B:
Step 1. Birth A.I.
Step 2. Realize I've forgotten to program it to obey humans.
Step 3. Die

Option C:
Discover all those "smart-people" at the LHC were wrong, and a continuously growing black hole is created.
All those options are horribly impractical and beyond reasonable influence.

Option A would require the world (it is only earth-like, not earth itself) to have such superstitions, and the inhabitants to have the necessary weaponery AND use it - basically, they have to have a shitload of nukes.
Besides, it is horribly impractical.

Option B - well, why should the A.I. immedeatly want to wipe out humanity? Where does it get the assets to do so? And even if it does want to do so and can do it, why should this make the planet uninhabitable?

Option C would require the laws of physics to change - simple observation tells us that LHC-style collisions happen all the time in the upper atmosphere.
And even if it was possible, you can not influence it - and if you can change the laws of physics as you want, wiping out a planet is no problem, anyway.


The best options are to either nuke the planet, or dropping some asteroids on it.
Every civilistation that is able to travel interstellar distances should be able to do that. Moving asteroids is as simple sa strapping a drive on them and propelling them towards the planet - and we can do the nuking thing right now.

If you want to get exotic, you could try to move the planet itself - it will propably take a long time, be hterribly impractial and expensive, but it would make it an inhabitable, frozen (or molten) planet.
Just strap a drive on them? Come on, if you're gonna assume enough "reasonable influence" to rain asteroids or control the launching of that many nukes, please don't tear apart my attempts at humor.
To criticize a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous, but to criticize their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. The freedom to criticize ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. A law which attempts to say you can criticize and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed. -Rowan Atkinson
Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16432
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Batman »

So are we still required to work with real-world technology as per the OP or does hard Scifi suffice now? Because fusion-powered vehicles are sure as hell NOT within today's technological capabilities.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Oskuro »

rhoenix wrote:I'm looking for ways to toxify the atmosphere, irradiate this world, greatly thicken cloudcover to dramatically increase global warming
Keep the Republicans in power?
unsigned
rhoenix
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1910
Joined: 2006-04-22 07:52pm

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by rhoenix »

(EDIT: Added reply to RedImperator)
RedImperator wrote:Stephen Baxter once suggested a genetically engineered bacterium that fixed chlorine from salt, released into a planetary ocean. In the book in question (Manifold Space), the entire planet's atmosphere was like a WWI battlefield, and it had been this way long enough for life to adapt to this (the trees were made of naturally evolved PVC and small animals used puffs of concentrated chlorine gas to defend themselves). Of course, this had to wait until after the previous biosphere was almost entirely destroyed. It's obviously analogous to the Oxygen Catastrophe.
This is an excellent idea - thank you.
Batman wrote:So are we still required to work with real-world technology as per the OP or does hard Scifi suffice now? Because fusion-powered vehicles are sure as hell NOT within today's technological capabilities.
I noticed that. Considering that I got a few good responses with the restriction of "today's technology," let's open this up a bit. The limit is now hard scifi, but here are your caveats: the planet has to be intact, and it has to have an atmosphere of some sort after whatever you're talking about finishes.
LordOskuro wrote:
rhoenix wrote:I'm looking for ways to toxify the atmosphere, irradiate this world, greatly thicken cloudcover to dramatically increase global warming
Keep the Republicans in power?
No, this is looking for ways to have violent planet-wide effects and/or desperate and plentiful warfare to bring about this end result.

Shit, that still fits.
User avatar
Tasoth
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2815
Joined: 2002-12-31 02:30am
Location: Being Invisible, per SOP

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Tasoth »

Turn the ocean into poisonous chemical broths. It has several effects: Loss of primary source of food, destruction of one of the main producers of O2 in phytoplankton as well as one of the primary fixers for CO2 in the same organism. And, if you pull it off right, precipitation that has the unfortunate effect of being deadly to terrestrial plant and animal matter.
I've committed the greatest sin, worse than anything done here today. I sold half my soul to the devil. -Ivan Isaac, the Half Souled Knight



Mecha Maniac
rhoenix
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1910
Joined: 2006-04-22 07:52pm

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by rhoenix »

Tasoth wrote:Turn the ocean into poisonous chemical broths. It has several effects: Loss of primary source of food, destruction of one of the main producers of O2 in phytoplankton as well as one of the primary fixers for CO2 in the same organism. And, if you pull it off right, precipitation that has the unfortunate effect of being deadly to terrestrial plant and animal matter.
Now this sounds like good, dirty fun. Any suggestions as to what chemicals, or what the specific effects might be?
User avatar
Erik von Nein
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2005-06-25 04:27am
Location: Boy Hell. Much nicer than Girl Hell.
Contact:

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Erik von Nein »

Let the oceans keep getting more acidic. See, nothing really has to change and sea still dies by the billions.

So, yeah, keep the republicans in power.
"To make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe."
— Carl Sagan

Image
rhoenix
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1910
Joined: 2006-04-22 07:52pm

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by rhoenix »

Erik von Nein wrote:Let the oceans keep getting more acidic. See, nothing really has to change and sea still dies by the billions.

So, yeah, keep the republicans in power.
I can't even believe that I'm going to say this, but - let's leave politics aside, and have this caused by more...immediate causes, and not democracy inaction.
User avatar
Erik von Nein
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2005-06-25 04:27am
Location: Boy Hell. Much nicer than Girl Hell.
Contact:

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Erik von Nein »

Okay ... um, pump tons of CO2 into the air and let the oceans acidify. It's happening already, like I said. Plus it gives you the added benefit of ruining the atmosphere and raising the temperature of the planet, doing all the fun things global climate change is already predicted to do. You can also couch the increased CO2 in industrialization and it being beneficial to whoever. As a bonus there's a point of no return that, even if everyone did shut down CO2 production it'll already be too late.
"To make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe."
— Carl Sagan

Image
User avatar
The Spartan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4406
Joined: 2005-03-12 05:56pm
Location: Houston

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by The Spartan »

What about a radioactive dust of some kind? I'm not really up on my properties of radioactive materials but take any radioactive metal that can be made into a dust, has a half life of a few hundred to a few thousand years and can be seeded onto a planet in massive amounts. Presuming such exists...

Alternatively, how much cyanide can this society make? I'm thinking something along the lines of a gigantic planetary cropduster that's dropping enough poison to kill more than just the insects.
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
Image
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari
Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
TheLostVikings
Padawan Learner
Posts: 332
Joined: 2008-11-25 08:33am

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by TheLostVikings »

Erik von Nein wrote:Okay ... um, pump tons of CO2 into the air and let the oceans acidify. It's happening already, like I said. Plus it gives you the added benefit of ruining the atmosphere and raising the temperature of the planet, doing all the fun things global climate change is already predicted to do. You can also couch the increased CO2 in industrialization and it being beneficial to whoever. As a bonus there's a point of no return that, even if everyone did shut down CO2 production it'll already be too late.
For a double whammy create those tons of CO2 by running gigantic heating plants used to temporarily thaw out the Siberian permafrost, not only just creating CO2 but at the same time releasing the billions of tons of methane that's been trapped there for ages. This would greatly speed up the no return point for a runaway greenhouse, though it would still take pretty damn long.
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Oskuro »

rhoenix wrote:I can't even believe that I'm going to say this, but - let's leave politics aside, and have this caused by more...immediate causes, and not democracy inaction.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on your point of view) in order to cause widespread effects, we need the paticipation of a massive amount of the population. Campaigning to convince people of things that help our goals might be one of the most effective means (take the popular opinion on Nuclear Power as an example)

But, for more immediate options, maybe causing some major cataclysm through the judicious use of nuclear explosions, targetting industrial areas in order to cause secondary disasters that might cause further destruction. For example, would a nuke-powered volcano spread massive amounts of radioactivwe ash and lava? Would an "artificial" Tsunami sent into a heavy industrial district suck back inordinate amounts of toxic material into the sea after spreading them along the coast?
unsigned
Lord of the Abyss
Village Idiot
Posts: 4046
Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
Location: The Abyss

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Fly an asteroid very close to the planet in question, repeatedly. Done properly for long enough, this will slowly tug the planet into a new orbit. Move the planet into an orbit too hot or cold to sustain life, and the OP is achieved. This method of planet moving has been seriously suggested as a means to keep Earth viable as the Sun grows warmer ( which it is, over geological time scales ). Very slow obviously, but it would work.
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
User avatar
Tasoth
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2815
Joined: 2002-12-31 02:30am
Location: Being Invisible, per SOP

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Tasoth »

rhoenix wrote: Now this sounds like good, dirty fun. Any suggestions as to what chemicals, or what the specific effects might be?
Off the top of my head:

-Halogens
-Pesticides
-Oil
-Commercial fertilizers
-Radioactive waste

And the list goes on and on. Really, you can take many of the chemicals mass produced today for the benefit of mankind and just ruin the oceans by pumping them straight in. If I remember correctly, everytime spring rolls around in the states, the Gulf of Mexico dies. Yes, that's right, dies. All the farm run off from fertilizers kills everything in the gulf but algae and jellyfish.
I've committed the greatest sin, worse than anything done here today. I sold half my soul to the devil. -Ivan Isaac, the Half Souled Knight



Mecha Maniac
User avatar
Feil
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1944
Joined: 2006-05-17 05:05pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Feil »

Clearcut all the forests and nuke or otherwise kill off surface plankton. Shouldn't take too long, and it would be a good start to planetcide. Burn some grasslands, while we're at it.
Companion Cube
Biozeminade!
Posts: 3874
Joined: 2003-02-02 04:29pm
Location: what did you doooooo щ(゚Д゚щ)

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Companion Cube »

RedImperator wrote:Stephen Baxter once suggested a genetically engineered bacterium that fixed chlorine from salt, released into a planetary ocean. In the book in question (Manifold Space), the entire planet's atmosphere was like a WWI battlefield, and it had been this way long enough for life to adapt to this (the trees were made of naturally evolved PVC and small animals used puffs of concentrated chlorine gas to defend themselves). Of course, this had to wait until after the previous biosphere was almost entirely destroyed. It's obviously analogous to the Oxygen Catastrophe.
There was a similar (natural) organism named "Behemoth" in some of Peter Watts' books. The point of Behemoth is that it's much better at sequestering nutrients than any other microbe, so it destroys any ecology it reaches.
And when I'm sad, you're a clown
And if I get scared, you're always a clown
Swindle1984
Jedi Master
Posts: 1049
Joined: 2008-03-23 02:46pm
Location: Texas

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Swindle1984 »

Well, besides the obvious Colony Drop option, there's always "build lots and lots of cobalt bombs and nuke the shit out of the planet". It won't be uninhabitable for thousands of years, unless you manage to kill EVERYTHING on the planet, in which case it would turn into an unhospitable desert once all the vegetation dried up and decomposed. With no algae in the oceans and plants on the land, the atmosphere would stop cycling different gases. Add a few volcanic eruptions later and the planet is pretty fucked.
Your ad here.
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Junghalli »

Companion Cube wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Stephen Baxter once suggested a genetically engineered bacterium that fixed chlorine from salt, released into a planetary ocean. In the book in question (Manifold Space), the entire planet's atmosphere was like a WWI battlefield, and it had been this way long enough for life to adapt to this (the trees were made of naturally evolved PVC and small animals used puffs of concentrated chlorine gas to defend themselves). Of course, this had to wait until after the previous biosphere was almost entirely destroyed. It's obviously analogous to the Oxygen Catastrophe.
There was a similar (natural) organism named "Behemoth" in some of Peter Watts' books. The point of Behemoth is that it's much better at sequestering nutrients than any other microbe, so it destroys any ecology it reaches.
In the field of clever biosphere-killing organisms I also present "Little Boy" (see here and here).
RandomJ wrote:If the biotech we have allows one to create organisms that biosynthesize Perchloric acid as an offensive (if suicidal) measure (my fucking god... :shock: ), we can most certainly create organisms that biosynthesize ultra high molecular weight polyethylene (metabolizing it will be a tiny bit more complicated, but many strains of Pseudomonas stutzeri can handle HMWPE, so fine-tuning the enzyme complexes that are well studied and stored in the onboard database to handle UHMWPE is a pretty much manageable issue)

As a matter of fact, many organisms (plants) on earth do synthesize ethylene and use it in endocrine and paracrine signaling. So it makes perfect sense that with our level of biotech we can make bacteria that biosynthesize ethylene and polymerize it to ~150 000 monomer units through custom-designed enzyme systems, and arrange layers of the resultant UHMWPE to form something like G+ cell wall, positioning the UHMWPE chains in an arrangement that will maximize the van der Waals interaction between individual molecules, thus giving its cell wall very high mechanical and chemical resilience. More importantly, it will give it a near-absolute phagocytosis resistance against any organism that does not happen to be able to metabolize UHMWPE (which is, any organism on LII), and guarantee that effective antibody-mediated or complement-mediated response is utterly impossible. The cell wall will have several layers of carefully arranged UHMWPE.

Implications of UHMWPE cell-wall (rather thick, as G+-type cell wall architecture is proposed) prohibit the proposed organism from photosynthesizing, but I doubt it will suffer from lack of such a feature.

Being capable of assaulting almost all kinds of biopolymer substrates (protein, lipids, polysaccharides, polynucleotides, any combinations of those), Little Boy will become a horrible, highly infectious opportunistic pathogen that can persist in any environment populated by protein lifeforms, and will simply bruteforce its way through host immune systems.
As a bonus - it will destroy the ecosystems in which it persists by means of aggressively outcompeting local decomposers, infecting and killing complex life, and poisoning the environment with a polymer only it can digest and very unpleasant metabolic wastes associated with anabolism/catabolism of said polymer.


I can write up more details on the modus operandi of such an organism, if you approve of the general idea of an opportunistic bacterium that synthesizes UHMWPE to protect itself against predators and immune system retaliation.
RandomJ wrote:Some more on the pathogen, now with more details on PC, AC, UV and SIP defense.


"Normal" biopolymer structures intended for detection of hostile (proteolytic enzymes, acids, etc) environments, substrate attachment, interbacterial interaction (biofilm formation) and nutrient processing (aggression against large biopolymer structures, be that proteins, lipids, polysaccharides or combinations of them) will be integrated into the polymer wall using several methods (often trans-membrane anchors), resembling the S-Layer complex.

Several structures will be intended specifically for detecting unfriendly (phagocytic) environments. Upon discovering an unfriendly environment, the pathogen will enact several countermeasures, including enacting active countermeasure protein complexes that rapidly dump H+ and Cl-, and complexes that rapidly form superoxide in the environment (dear immunocyte, please lyze yourself!).
After dumping the payload, the defense complexes shut down and will eventually rotate out.

Afterwards, measures are taken to decrease permeability of UHMWPE structure and prevent anything from getting past it (seal shut what you can seal shut), and initiating metabolic hibernation (you can not go on long enough while being sealed shut in a plastic bag, so you really want to decrease your metabolism to wait it out).

If there is no indication of improvement in external environment, where attempts to restore the S-complex like structures fails, with permeability-creating structures being repeatedly destroyed, ATP and reserve materials depleting and internal metabolic waste level rising (a situation our Little Boy will find itself in if it encounters a very resilient and persistent alien phagocyte), the pathogen will rapidly form a very resilient endospore.

Endospore formation is also immediately triggered by exposure to high temperature (sufficient to disrupt UHMWPE synethesis), overwhelming UV, chemically aggressive environment, sudden decrease in temperature, irradiation, or any combination of those.


Endospore takes advantage of LB’s unique UHMWPE complexes, and uses additional reinforcement of exosporium and upper spore coat through mineralized phosphate and sulphate compounds, which provides good defense against chemical, thermal, UV abuse, and even some degree of ionizing radiation protection. Genome will be stored with twofold redundancy, stabilized by binding with chromatinoid protective proteins and dipicolinate compounds.

The LB endospores are unique in that a kind of rudimentary metabolism is activated when a barrage of high-energy radiation is present – melanin-based high-energy particle absorbent complexes are located right under the mineralized layer, catching some of the particles that manage to get through the heavily mineralized shell, and using the energy acquired to power specific dependant antioxidant and shaperone complexes, thus, high energy radiation powers some of the mechanisms intended to counteract it.
Additional protection of the endospore core material will be attained through various redundant antioxidant and shaperone complexes a-la those found in many polyextremophiles, and present only in Little Boy’s endospores and never active in vegetative forms (to avoid conflicts with normal metabolism)

Upon formation of endospore, special purpose lytic enzyme complexes targeting the cell wall UHMWPE are activated, thus ensuring that endospore does not end up “in a bag” and can rapidly respond to a favorable change in environment.

Such a spore will be quite resistant to standard autoclave treatment, with above 98% survival when treated as per standard 20cen Erth sterilization procedure. More hardcore modes, like 134° C for 18 minutes, are barely survivable, with over 80% of spores inactivated, and 23 minutes on 130C guarantee sterilization (holds true for autoclave and like ONLY, burning an infected forest with napalm will achieve nothing, except maybe additional propagation of viable spores through airborne soot particles)

The endospore shall easily survive formidable ionizing radiation (4000-4900 Gy), extreme cold (indefinite storage in liquid nitrogen) fumigating nitric acid bath, and many, many other horrible things.

Endospores can be stored almost indefinitely.

The major drawback
relatively slow activation of endospore – this super-tough nut has hard time detecting favorable environment change (however, environments typical of living hosts will trigger re-activation and germination in 36-48 hours).

To facilitate endosporal response, the pathogens, when in favorable, nutrient rich conditions, will devote some resources to form an endospore that they will carry around indefinitely. Upon mitosis, one of the daughter cells inherits the spore, the sporeless cell proceeds to (relatively rapidly) spawn a sporeless generation. Daughter cells of sporeless generation will form a “backup spore” as the first cell did, if resources are plentiful. Endospore formation can be halted and resumed in response to various combinations of external circumstances.
While this approach somewhat hinders growth rates, it greatly improves overall resilience (a good part of a healthy colony will have spores hidden inside the vegetative cells “just in case someone tries to rapidly heat it to 130C”)
Which means that the LB will be very hard to kill with fire. :)

UV/Rad defense in vegetative forms

To protect the vegetative form against UV and rads, melanin-based “radiation sink” functional protein complexes are produced, primarily in the periplasmic space. Producing (and breaking down) melanin in periplasmic space spatially compartmentalizes the noxious process, thus preventing the negative effects on cell growth and reproduction associated with melanin production and breakdown. Upon capturing energetic particles (be that UV or gamma), the melanin “sinks” dump electrons into dedicated NADP/NADPH electron transfer chain via dedicated transmembrane protein links.

The advantage of having those is fourfold:
1) Vegetative form protected against UV directly by preventing damage to the important structures and formation of free radicals
2) Vegetative form protected against ionizing radiation directly by preventing damage to the important structures and formation of free radicals
3) The electron transfer chain for the sinks is dedicated, and thus its very activation is a signaling mechanism for specific rad/UV hazard detection
4) Produces energy from the hazardous environment.

The third and fourth points in the list actually allow for “hardcore”, D. Radiodurans-style ATP hungry rapid DNA reparation and antioxidant systems to immediately activate upon encounter with radiation hazard. The metabolic toll will be minimal (as the very radiation we counteract gives us some additional ATP) and the ATP hungry “super-reparation” and “super-antioxidant” complexes will be inactive during “peace time”.

Potential drawback of having melanin production is mostly mitigated through periplasmic confinement.

800-1500 Gy can be easily shrugged off by vegetative Little Boys. Above 1500 triggers emergency endospore formation/release (see above)


Biofilm Formation:
Little Boys will actively form biofilms, both inside hosts and in environments, using their plastic shells (they are supposed to be the only ones to metabolize UHMWPE) to stick together, to concentrate themselves closer the richer parts of substrate, and to shield themselves from any outside influence (caveat - the organism is non-motile outside the biofilm complex). Colonies are complex, and create a microclimate of its own. Structure of biofilm protects the Little Boys that directly contact the substrate from harm, and thus allows for more aggressive substrate assimilation unimpeded by any unfriendly influence.

A dedicated signaling compound accumulates in colonial boys, forcing the “topmost” bacteria to “flake off” from the colony, form endospores and float in vast numbers to new horizons.
In vivo this will cause rapid blood-borne propagation, with eventual compromise of respiratory system ( yay bacterial metastases! :D yay airborne plague! :D).

Environment compatibility:
what we know about the environment is more than sufficient to make Little Boy capable of consuming LII biololymers with significant redundancy (additional enzymes for handling unusual metabolic inputs, just if some silly LII life tries to escape by using, say, rare optic isomers...)


The niche
"parasite/facultative decomposer" (you read it right, facultative decomposer). After all, Little Boy is designed to shut down whole ecosystems, not form new ones.



Additional redundancy:

Ribozymes used where possible to complicate reverse-engineering, increase metabolism speed and decrease genome size

Main metabolic pathways are at least double redundant. Every component of backup of a critical pathway is significantly mutable, to ensure quick formation of resistance to possible attempts at antibiotic treatment.

Active antibiotic resistance (AAR) systems built-in by default (xenometabolite detection and efflux, xenometabolite inactivation, etc), at least two additional, redundant highly mutable AAR systems present.

Several external digestive enzymes that are aggression factors against host are highly mutable, to improve probability of hostile antibody counteraction and destruction.

Metavariation systems (constructs that rapidly increase mutation rates in response to stress and environment change associated with destruction of adjacent Little Boy cells) to increase mutation when a colony is threatened.

Distributed genome, >40% of genotype is encoded extra-chromosomaly (stringent conjunctive plasmids, etc) to increase mobility (see below), improve DNA protection in endospores and complicate reverse-engineering

Several methods for exchanging extra-chromosomal genetic material between strains of little boys (relatively secure against potential viral abuse).

Free bonuses
  • Airborne dispersal bonus:
    basically, as soon as a Lamprey gets a colony of Little Boys in its respiratory tract, Little Boy gets airborne. And because every single Little Boy bacterium is tough as hell, every tiny slime drop gets formidably contagious.
  • endosporal bonus:
    Even if the phagocytes in the host are super-persistent and chemically aggressive, the endospore will linger in the hostile cell until the host cell dies, assuming that side products of enzymes that were tearing down the UHMWPE cell wall during endospore release did not unmake host cell outright. After the host cell’s death the Little Boy shall resume its destructive activities. The hypothetical super-phagocyte will thus serve to distribute infection throughout organism of the victim, forming bacterial metastases.
  • UHMWPE bonus:
    UHMWPE-metabolic pathways can be (AND SHOULD BE) used to attack several similar classes of industrial polymers (HMWPE, UHMWPE), thus granting the Little Boy ability to score additional damage against infrastructure, and even potentially compromise bio-containment protocols by actively attacking air filtration systems and polymer barriers.

    Any ecological niche that is colonized by LB will be inhospitable for normal life for years to come (toxic metabolism)
  • Antibody-philiac:
    Apparently, surface proteins will attract antibodies. However, those will not be able to severely harm a creature with a UHMWPE cell wall. Thus, antibody-rich environment will amount to a protein soup the Little Boy will proceed to break down and consume.
  • Burned-until-it-was-clean bonus:
    Burning down the infected swaths of biosphere not only fails to kill of the pathogen, but causes airborne dispersal of endospores stuck to the soot particulate, thus facilitating ecosystem-wide contamination.
  • Sadistic bonus:
    Hosts will die a very torturous death. *cold robotic stare* *snicker*


Problems
  • Catabolism of UHMWPE (normal part or re-building a cell wall) will have wastes that are toxic to "normal" life. Hosts will have their blood vessels scorched by substances that are essentially hazardous paint thinners. Asymptomatic course exceeding one week is theoretically possible, but not guaranteed.
  • Problems with "locking in" the virulence down-selection (actually a non-issue, as it will arise AFTER most complex life is converted to plastic. Still, an engineering trade-off)
  • Slow (relatively low rate of reproduction)
    it will spread slowly, but steadily. Thus, can be contained early on, if in small dryland isolates (containing it in a marine environment is not a realistic possibility, however).
    Bear in mind that after a critical mass is reached, and/or a major water body is contaminated, its game over for Lampreys.
  • non-motile outside biofilm
rhoenix
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1910
Joined: 2006-04-22 07:52pm

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by rhoenix »

Thank you for that reply, Junghalli - this has given me something else to map out and examine.
User avatar
frogcurry
Padawan Learner
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:34am

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by frogcurry »

Well, a planet thats not ruined gives you:

1) suitable temperature, gravity, pressure, composition
2) habitable environment w/ drinkable water, breathable air & eatable food
3) protection from radiation

In order:
1) Temperature is vaguely doable, but would need action on a massive (much larger than all of humanitys efforts to date) scale to render a planet actually uninhabitable. The temperature rise attributed to global warming from all the coal and oil burnt to date in human history is <0.5 C, we need much more, much much more. The other factors are effectively so big as to be unalterable.
2) Probably the easiest, as long as you can get a poison/ harmful agent across the whole planet. Getting it everywhere and keeping it persistent for 1000 yrs might be hard though. I've nothing to add to the suggestions so far, save that I'd favour large scale distribution of a harmful, bio-accumulating stable chemical if a suitable one can be identified (say something that stop a critical metabolic function in every eukaryotic organism on earth). There are several chemical families of potential candidates, chemicals that are bio-accumulative and harmful, the plan just needs manufacturing of these normally speciality chemicals on a truly massive scale. If only removed from nature by inevitable deposition in sea sediment then the effect could be preserved for > 1000 yrs.
3) Not practical. The sun is quite a nice radiation based killer-device, the only problem is the planet is protected by a magnetic field which isn't fully understood (the ozone layer also has some affect, but its much less importance and easily eliminated by continued mass-CFC manufacture and release on a scale of 2 -3 orders of magnitude above what we used to release at the peak). You'd need to dramatically improve understanding of the planetary magnetic field, if you did you might be able to make a hole for the solar wind by influencing the magnetic field in some way. Once thats done it'd do a pretty nice job of finishing off the planetary life and possibly eventually a large part of the atmosphere.
User avatar
Buritot
Youngling
Posts: 141
Joined: 2009-07-03 07:07am
Location: DE-MV

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by Buritot »

I propose fleet of nuclear powered ramjets delivering nuclear payloads. I don't care what payloads and where they detonate. Since it is a ramjet engine, it will be fast. Furthermore you can't easily make a nuclear reactor airborne unless we discard the shielding. This in turn will irradiate any land or water the ramjets will fly over. Furthermore you can keep that thing in the air for years without need for refuelling.
For a more in-depth study, look for Project Pluto. The Air Force developed these babies to prototype phase.
~Buritot
BRAN! The Morning Meal for Dyslexic Zombies!
User avatar
starslayer
Jedi Knight
Posts: 731
Joined: 2008-04-04 08:40pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Fun With: Ruining a World

Post by starslayer »

frogcurry wrote:3) Not practical. The sun is quite a nice radiation based killer-device, the only problem is the planet is protected by a magnetic field which isn't fully understood (the ozone layer also has some affect, but its much less importance and easily eliminated by continued mass-CFC manufacture and release on a scale of 2 -3 orders of magnitude above what we used to release at the peak). You'd need to dramatically improve understanding of the planetary magnetic field, if you did you might be able to make a hole for the solar wind by influencing the magnetic field in some way. Once that's done it'd do a pretty nice job of finishing off the planetary life and possibly eventually a large part of the atmosphere.
You've got it backwards; by far the more important layer to killing off life in the short term (i.e., effecting the first die off) is the ozone layer. Once that's gone, most complex life will die as it is subjected to an enormous UV flux. Then you can get to work on keeping it dead and killing off the rest. Solar wind stripping of the atmosphere takes many millions of years, even in the complete absence of a planetary magnetic field, though once it happens, it is rather final. In the meantime, life on the surface is protected from cosmic rays and other ionizing radiation due to the enormous amount of air in between them and space.

This presumes that no intelligent and/or underground life is present, however. Intelligent life like us will move underground, away from the harsh glare of the Sun. Cave dwellers are obviously already there. To get them, more extreme methods are needed, like others that have been suggested here. To add to that, you must keep up the CFC production, or they will disappear after a century or two, and the ozone layer will come back in just a few years afterwards (UVC band radiation forms ozone from oxygen in the upper atmosphere; once oxygen appears in an atmosphere and is persistent, an ozone layer is inevitable). The surface biosphere would recover quickly once that happened. So, all in all, if you're looking for a more hands-off approach to planetary destruction, removing a planet's radiation shields isn't the best way to go about it.
Post Reply