SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread IX

[Ryan Thunder]

Do not change anybody's actual data, though. Regardless if you feel it is incorrect, unrealistic, wanked, etc. That's not your place. Bring it up here in OOC, we'll argue about it, and then see what the verdict is. Like any other OOB bitching.

The thought hadn't actually crossed my mind. That's his stuff to sort out.

I was just reading through it and thought I'd fix a couple of things (format wise, anyway). Sorry that it bothered you, Czech.

[Beowulf]

You know, given Steve's currently uncertain status, I put forth the following question: Who objects to the idea of Steve as mod?

[RogueIce]

Well, like I said, A+ for initiative. My only problem is him doing it without asking, or just telling me the format errors. The snipe...well, I put that in because I felt like it. It's gone now and I don't feel the need to put it back. Nuff said.

Yeah, I can agree. I don't see the need to send someone a PM to fix an obvious typo (my Hitsory -> History example) although stuff like whether to put it in a bulleted list vs <br> tags should, out of courtesy, be a "I have a suggestion" type thing. Since we don't have any sort of article format standards, it's more or less open to each individual person in that regard.

ALLCAPS headers warrant an automatic fix, though. Because that just bugs the Hell out of me.

[Czechmate]

I don't. His status as mod is currently de facto, given he's the most trustworthy guy about (maybe that's just by comparison...) We may as well make it official.

Regarding allcaps headers - I use that as a placeholder before putting proper header ='s around it.

[RogueIce]

Do not change anybody's actual data, though. Regardless if you feel it is incorrect, unrealistic, wanked, etc. That's not your place. Bring it up here in OOC, we'll argue about it, and then see what the verdict is. Like any other OOB bitching.

The thought hadn't actually crossed my mind. That's his stuff to sort out.

Not saying it did or that you would. But I figured, if I'm making some post about Wiki editing guidelines anyway, might as well include that in the rare chance it comes up.

But I honestly don't expect there to be that issue here. Why fuck with a Wiki when you can just launch nukes at the offender and kick off World War III, after all.

Ok ok, don't really do that...

Regarding allcaps headers - I use that as a placeholder before putting proper header ='s around it.

Ah, that. Ok enough, I suppose. I was referring to allcaps within a == == bracket. If it's a place holder, fair enough. But if I see ROYAL CANISSIAN MARINES in somebody's table of contents, you can bet it'll be changed.

[Ryan Thunder]

I don't.

Yeah, me neither. I don't get any vibes of assholery from him so I'm cool with it.

Regarding allcaps headers - I use that as a placeholder before putting proper header ='s around it.

Yeah, okay. I've been fixing a couple things here and there in different pages to try and get it looking marginally more like Wikipedia.

In retrospect I should've just left yours until you were actually done with it, at least.

[Czechmate]

Guys, guys...it's cool. The wiki issue is just fine. Let's address the Steve=Mod? issue, yeah?

[CmdrWilkens]

As an addendum the "Talk" pages are always available to indicate objections and such (well the board is available for that as well).

Also Siege two things:

1) If you reduced your LHD to razorblades and rebuilt it as a CVA/CVL that would be at least a 4+ year project.

2) You aunched your secon module on June 15th or roughly 6 months ago and have added the third now plus regular supply routings. This would be 3 modules in orbit more than a year faster than was performed IRL (which means extra cost) along with minimal, at best, partner financing. In turn this means that the NFT has in the last year taken on an annualized additional cost of, roughly, $5 Bn most of which would be front loaded in terms of construction instead of operations meaning in the past year you've probably had to spend upwards of $10Bn on top of your additional programs.

In other words I'm calling bullshit on you being able to pay for both the space station AND the S-3. Your GDP is comparable to that of Japan (a fair portion of which is derieved from the still relatively recent inclusion of other nations into what was once San Dorado) and yet you are somehow paying for an entire space station AND your orbital bomber program in addition to the rest of your military programs (IADS and the like).

[RogueIce]

Is each SD world a different world? Or does it build on the last?

Inasmuch as the original "SDN World" is continued in "SDN World Redux" (I think that's what you were asking)...it is and it isn't. Those of us who were players of the last game remember it, and through us "Veterans" (as I refer to Game 1 players) I think most of the "New Breed" (ok I just came up with that five seconds ago) are more or less aware that A) there was a world before this one and B) have a general idea of what went down. And of course we all know we're in some Q scenario.

As far as the global population, for the most part they are ignorant there was ever another Terra Nova. There are a few rare exceptions of certain character who also existed in the first game having some memory, mostly due to Q being a dick. For instance, PeZook's former aide Kamila knows the whole story because I told her, as the result of a plot line where Q was giving her 'dreams' of the Old Terra Nova. I think Stas has had his character tell a few people close to him that there is an Earth out there and that he's from there, but I don't think he told them about the first game (Stas can correct me if I'm misremembering him, though). But on the whole, the denizens of this world are totally ignorant of any past world history.

And I think we've generally agreed that, for the most part, trying to tell anybody this outside of rare exceptions is only going to get us locked up in the loony bin. So nobody's going to go on international TV and tell all about Q, because they wouldn't be believed even if they did.

EDIT: Honestly, even Trusted Advisors would likely think you're nuts, though they may just ignore it and move on. But that's just me, and on the whole I think there should be a pretty good story justification if anyone does tell the truth to an "NPC" advisor or whatever; for good drama or something. Not just 'well I wanted so-and-so to know just because'. But it's only one man's opinion...

[Siege]

*snip*

That's a fair enough citicism. Disregard the module launch; I'll do that sometime in the next game-year. I won't be needing it anytime soon anyway.

I would like to point out that large amounts of foreign investments have gone into the S-3 program, most prominently from Shroomania. I'm far from paying for that on my own. The S-2 program has also earned back a significant portion of its cost through sales to foreign nations, which helps to pay for the continuation of the Silver program. And they don't call it the 'runaway defense budget' for nothing. The NFT is seriously up-arming in response to what is widely perceived as unjust treatment by *certain parties*.

Oh and also, it bears repeating that no nation was "included into what was once San Dorado". Three nations have joined a supranational union. It's not like they're subordinate to San Dorado in any way. That's like saying EU nations are included into what was once West Germany. It's a silly thing to say.

[Siege]

Oh, and Rogue, just for completeness' sake, I believe Lord Fairfax' main man Dr. Blitzschlag (which I think is an awesome name) is quite convinced of everything Lonestar told him about Q. Of course that might have something to do with the fact that he's got HERV to work with... Tangible proof and all that.

[RogueIce]

*snip*

That's a fair enough citicism. Disregard the module launch; I'll do that sometime in the next game-year. I won't be needing it anytime soon anyway.

I would like to point out however that large amounts of foreign investments have gone into the S-3 program however, most prominently from Shroomania. I'm far from paying for that on my own. The S-2 program has also earned back a significant portion of its cost through sales to foreign nations, which helps to pay for the continuation of the Silver program.

Fair enough. I'd just point out though that there's probably a limit to how much Shroomania would likely subsidize your program, if it's not getting anything in return.

For example, we have the MSA and the STAR project. Yes, an individual nation may take the "lead" on certain parts of it (like how STAR was part of Wilkonia's 'New Horizons' project) and we all help fund, but in the end it's because we get something out of it, as well. The Shinra Republic didn't put a man on the moon: the MSA did. Likewise, Wilkonia may have taken the lead in developing STAR, but in return most of the MESS is using those ships and designs in one form or another.

Basically, I think there's a limit to how much funding assistance you'd get from another nation, or even your alliance, before it is reasonably expected to become a "joint" asset, instead of just NFT's Rocket Forces. After all, Shroom has to justify the expenditure to his parliment, and just saying, "Well it's helping the NFT's Rocket Forces because they're our ally" is only going to go so far before they start expecting something tangible back. To a certain extent, they may let it go as helping an ally. But if they're putting forth, say, 60% of the funding, you'd except to see some Shroomanian S-3s entering service too.

And as usual, while I'm referring to one example, I use that more as illustrative rather than just picking on Siege. If he's got a good set up with Shroom, awesome. But the idea was in my head so I just had to stand on my soap box.

Oh, and Rogue, just for completeness' sake, I believe Lord Fairfax' main man Dr. Blitzschlag (which I think is an awesome name) is quite convinced of everything Lonestar told him about Q. Of course that might have something to do with the fact that he's got HERV to work with... Tangible proof and all that.

Good point. He might well know. And of course, there's a good reason for him to know. Thus reinforcing my point. As for why Kamila knows, well as I recall we got pretty good reviews of that little soap opera tale me and PeZook spun, so there's our justification. I suppose Stas just uses his Super Commie Powers to get away with who he told.

[Siege]

I see your point, although I feel compelled to point out that Shroomania is getting a whole batch of Silver Shrikes for their trouble. They got on board with the Silver program a long, long time ago after I showed the PM the mock-up of the first S-1 Silver Streak. Perhaps this confusion stems from Shroom's perpetual refusal to update his OOB ( ), but Shroomania has been a partner in this project for a long time, and definitely has something to show for it.

Furthermore the S-3 isn't an 'international' program like a moon landing. It's a corporate project run by Ralson Aerospace, a subsidiary of Ralson Concerns Ltd., with subcontracts going to MacMillan, probably to Byzantine Air, and maybe to firms in Indhopal and Miratia as well. The end product will enter service with the Rocket Forces, but it's not like they run the project itself. To use a comparison, sales and subcontracts to nations and industries all over the world won't change the fact that the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is still called the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

[Steve]

So, Lonestar's unleashed the Merc with a Mouth upon our fair STGOD.

Maybe I should counter with Cascadia getting "Department H" and getting some weird guy from the woods to graft metal on his bones....

[Lonestar]

Not quite. A bullet to the head would(probably) still kill him, obviously he can't regrow limbs, and as I hinted with him cramming down powerbars he needs a lot of blood sugar...which is something Marina alluded to in the past for "regular" Vamps.

[Master_Baerne]

Regarding Siege's orbiters - The Sovereign Duchy is also providing funding, since before the first S-1s were launched. I don't know how much that matters, but still...

[CmdrWilkens]

I see your point, although I feel compelled to point out that Shroomania is getting a whole batch of Silver Shrikes for their trouble. They got on board with the Silver program a long, long time ago after I showed the PM the mock-up of the first S-1 Silver Streak. Perhaps this confusion stems from Shroom's perpetual refusal to update his OOB ( ), but Shroomania has been a partner in this project for a long time, and definitely has something to show for it.

Furthermore the S-3 isn't an 'international' program like a moon landing. It's a corporate project run by Ralson Aerospace, a subsidiary of Ralson Concerns Ltd., with subcontracts going to MacMillan, probably to Byzantine Air, and maybe to firms in Indhopal and Miratia as well. The end product will enter service with the Rocket Forces, but it's not like they run the project itself. To use a comparison, sales and subcontracts to nations and industries all over the world won't change the fact that the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is still called the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

The last part here is more than fair enough...the problem is how are you paying for the development costs. In today's dollars (and inflation by 2018 is a bitch) you are going to have to shell out somewhere in the 20-50Bn range to make a new spacecraft operational. No private corporation has that kind of capital sitting around and able to invest while waiting for a market to appear. Again there is no market outside fo the government for a project where the startup costs are in the multi-billions and the return on investment is AT LEAST adecade and a half down the road. No corporate baron worth his shit and quite possible no corporate baron who isn't worth their shit will ever invest that kind of cash for that length of time for that dubious of payback.

By point of comparison the commercial launch industry is profitbale almost entirely because governments built the launch infrastructure and helped fund so much rocket development that commercial players only have to invest in the unit cost of a launch. Nobody was getting into the game when they would have had to build the entire infrastructure from the ground up.

My point with all of this is you can have the S-3 but it is definately going to cut a huge swath through the NFTs budget and probably would curtail virtually any other type of aquisition. The S-planes probably have a lifetime cost close to the STAR project that the MESS funded and we have 18x your GDP.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Eh.. PeZook, short of Syria conquering the area around Jerusalem, there isn't a Damascus harbour. Of course, there is the Mesopotamia area...

Regarding Siege's space station, some of this is drawn from CATO's internal funding.

[RogueIce]

Hey Fin, if you're getting rid of your F-22Bs... *smiles sweetly*

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Hey Fin, if you're getting rid of your F-22Bs... *smiles sweetly*

Bleah.. I sold a few of these damn things.. I guess you can take them. 108-72 = 36 of them. There's still 72 left to be gotten rid of.

[Beowulf]

Hey Fin, if you're getting rid of your F-22Bs... *smiles sweetly*

Bleah.. I sold a few of these damn things.. I guess you can take them. 108-72 = 36 of them. There's still 72 left to be gotten rid of.

I'll pick up half the remaining, and Ice will get the other half. Sound good?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Is each SD world a different world? Or does it build on the last?

There have been two SDN Worlds; the first ended in an orgy of nuclear violence. This is the second one (hence 'redux'), and each thread about it (so far nine OOC comment threads and four IC game threads) is a continuation of the previous, and is set in the same world and its (shaky) continuity.

So.... Not exactly somethign someone could jump into? I still have all the info for the gvery first SDnet World

[Steve]

Is each SD world a different world? Or does it build on the last?

There have been two SDN Worlds; the first ended in an orgy of nuclear violence. This is the second one (hence 'redux'), and each thread about it (so far nine OOC comment threads and four IC game threads) is a continuation of the previous, and is set in the same world and its (shaky) continuity.

So.... Not exactly somethign someone could jump into? I still have all the info for the gvery first SDnet World

Oh, you probably could. You'd just not get all the background stuff some people have going on unless you spent some hours reading all the Redux threads (and more hours reading the first game threads if you want).

[Shroom Man 777]

Shroomania has bought Siege's Silver Streaks and Silver Stars. When the Shrike is operational, we'll get S-3s as well. We'll probably be right next in line to San Dorado in getting them, since we're pouring significant monies in those things.

I think my OOB in the OOB Thread makes mention of orbiters.

[Crossroads Inc.]

hey man, i was IN the fvery first SDnet world, I have a knack for nations and politics, IE, not getting nuked.