SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread IX

[PeZook]

Erm...that's the BUDGET percentage, not GDP percentage. It's still an obvious sign of runaway militarization, but it's not 20% of GDP.

[Bluewolf]

My mistake. I have had 3 hours sleep. I am sorry for being an idiot there.

[Beowulf]

The US spends a huge amount, but that's because we also have a huge GDP. So the % of GDP isn't actually that much. Israel spends about 7% of their GDP (plus they get a bit extra from the US). It has been said "The US isn't at war, the US military is at war. The US is at the mall."

[Beowulf]

Erm...that's the BUDGET percentage, not GDP percentage. It's still an obvious sign of runaway militarization, but it's not 20% of GDP.

Right. It's about 8% of GDP. It's a bit high, but nothing like what the US was spending during the Vietnam War, for example (9-10% at one point, IIRC)

[Ryan Thunder]

What I remember from my research on the World Factbook yesterday; Israel is highly militarized and they spend about 7.5% of their GDP on the military. The US spends around 4%. Russia spent less than this, IIRC.

Most European Union members spent around 1% or less.

The highest number I saw was about 11%, and the lowest was Iceland at 0%.

[Bluewolf]

If anyone has a quarral with my 10% then I am happy to lower then, it should. I don't mind being reasonable. I am not out to go wild with my military, I just had it high as having all that stuff probably costs a bit to maintain and run.

[Ryan Thunder]

If anyone has a quarral with my 10% then I am happy to lower then, it should. I don't mind being reasonable. I am not out to go wild with my military, I just had it high as having all that stuff probably costs a bit to maintain and run.

I don't really mind; it is within the realm of possibility, after all, even if its at the extreme edge of it.

[Bluewolf]

I just don' want anyone to think its unrealistic or to think that I am going to go on some grand campaign to take over places or anything. So yeah, I don't mind either way, as long as people are not too unhappy and that

[Steve]

To be fair he's in a standoff with an incredibly militaristic fascist autarky separatist country. And that may be his old numbers unchanged, would have to ask.

Frankly it wouldn't shock me if Cascadia's military spending has surpassed 8% given my Air Force, Navy, and Army.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Hey guys! Fear my Wiki Editing skills!
http://sdnworld.wikia.com/wiki/The_Inco ... rossroadia

[Czechmate]

To be fair he's in a standoff with an incredibly militaristic fascist autarky separatist country. And that may be his old numbers unchanged, would have to ask.

Frankly it wouldn't shock me if Cascadia's military spending has surpassed 8% given my Air Force, Navy, and Army.

I'm quoting Steve here instead of the rest of you cause he beat me to my own response and I'm feeling lazy;

My military budget, before divvying up into acquisitions/research/maintenance/etc, is 34.6B, or an even 8% of the national GDP of 432.6B. You know why I spend that much on the military these days and feel justified doing it?

I live next to Fascist Autarkist Austrian North Korea. And you know what? We're still legally at war. At the end of the One Year War (Jan 1-Dec 25 2002) Emmeria and Polaria signed an armistice, not a proper peace treaty, in keeping with the Korean-peninsula vibe.

(Speaking of the One Year War, you can read up on it here - the timeline is by no means complete, but the background to the war is certainly there.)

And 'zook, you don't need to point any SSGNs at me. All of that money goes toward maintaining an army on the DMZ, keeping enough planes in service to assure I don't get blindsided in case of renewed war with Polaria, keeping enough ships afloat to keep the Polarians from doing anything retarded, maintaining a reserve for all of those in case of wartime, and researching the technology to keep pace with Polaria's rampant wunderprojekt development and the shit Vitoze buys from Tonkin.

Emmeria is so busy dealing with their psychotic northern kin and the lingering Vitozan question mark that they don't have the time to bother with the MESS-CATO cold war or any of the geopolitical jousting that entails.

[Shroom Man 777]

I say Crossroads can be placed where Greenland was. Well, maybe further off Messica's coast, to be right in the middle of the Atlantic. Or something.

[Steve]

I say Crossroads can be placed where Greenland was. Well, maybe further off Messica's coast, to be right in the middle of the Atlantic. Or something.

I was planning on it being midway between Canissia and the Caribbean.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I say Crossroads can be placed where Greenland was. Well, maybe further off Messica's coast, to be right in the middle of the Atlantic. Or something.

I was planning on it being midway between Canissia and the Caribbean.

As long as it is somewhere nice and not next to any Crazies at all!

[Shroom Man 777]

That's kind of... clunky. Just a big island floating there in the middle of the Atlantic?

Maybe there could be a more aesthetic arrangement. I think putting it on Greenland's corner would be prettier.

(Where can I find an image of the latest world map anyway?)

[Crossroads Inc.]

This is a current proposal.
http://stgjr.com/sdnworld/mapproposal3.png

[Czechmate]

I say Crossroads can be placed where Greenland was. Well, maybe further off Messica's coast, to be right in the middle of the Atlantic. Or something.

I was planning on it being midway between Canissia and the Caribbean.

As long as it is somewhere nice and not next to any Crazies at all!

There be crazies everywhere.

[PeZook]

My point is that Czech is spending 40% of his budget on the military, which means every other government service has to suffer for it, especially in light of his ridiculously low tax rate.

That's why I say it's a sign of rampant militarism in Emmeria: not the sheer proportion of GDP, the fact that you spend almost as much on the military as schools, health care, police, firefighting, roads etc. combined.

In addition to other things, it's not sustainable. Sad fact is high military spending requires high taxes

[Czechmate]

Well, Emmeria -is- Prussian. I could adjust the tax rate upward, if you like. :3

Polaria is Austrian and Vitoze is Italian. Vitoze might actually have been the source of the people that colonized the PRSF way back in the day. ;p

[Steve]

My point is that Czech is spending 40% of his budget on the military, which means every other government service has to suffer for it, especially in light of his ridiculously low tax rate.

That's why I say it's a sign of rampant militarism in Emmeria: not the sheer proportion of GDP, the fact that you spend almost as much on the military as schools, health care, police, firefighting, roads etc. combined.

In addition to other things, it's not sustainable. Sad fact is high military spending requires high taxes

Requires higher taxes certainly, if you want higher service spending too. However, IIRC, in the days before widespread service spending, lots of governments spent around that proportion of their budget on military spending.

[Czechmate]

Regarding the labelling of Emmeria as suffering 'rampant militarism', I gotta say that...you're right. Oh noes, you got me. They are. They're a fortress-state because of their crazy unstable neighbors. It's a very high priority because there is no official peace between Emmeria and Polaria. There are still skirmishes between patrols in the DMZ when one side or the other crosses the Demarcation Line. Not really the kind of situation that, say, Polan---Pezookia is in.

[Siege]

Wow thanks Mang! how did you do that so fast?

In paint.net, add a transparent layer over the original top-down map of the island, trace the outline using the pencil tool, then delete the background layer with the original image. Rather straightforward and quick, took ten minutes tops. So you're welcome .

Concerning Polaria, I see they use French army equipment... Did they get it from San Dorado? As far as I know I've been the only one who manufactures and uses that stuff thusfar (under different names, but still.)

[Beowulf]

I think Polaria uses natively manufactured equipment (definition of Autarky). Also, the OD uses significant amounts of French equipment (the Mistrals are used, at least).

[RogueIce]

Heh. Very well. I'm editing things appropriately given that I both have more people and a larger economy than Israel. And my armed forces still aren't anywhere near as big as theirs, according to Czech, either, so anybody who wants to bitch about whether I "built it like the rest of you" or not can kindly fuck off, and that'll be the end of it.

No, Ryan. Look, I'm sorry you feel wronged by all this, but it's way too late to just magic in a bigger OOB for you. You are in no worse a position than the rest of us were at the start of the game when we used the points system while Shep and Skimmer did not. And we didn't magic in new units; we simply lived with it and started an in game expansion. So if you feel your military is too small, it's on you to do something about in game. Not via magic.

EDIT: Heck, you're in a better position. It's not like Emmeria even poses a threat to you. Shepistan and Japanistan did pose a threat to the rest of us.

As far as I know, nobody else magiced up their OOB in response to Shep and Skim. If they did, I'd be curious to know; because frankly, they'd be assholes if they did.

[Czechmate]

Polaria uses French equipment because I thought nobody was using French equipment and wanted them to be different without using Eastern (UCSR) equipment. Maybe it's just a coincidence, or maybe it's the result of espionage? Whatever floats your boat, but keep in mind that they're autarkist and as Beo said natively manufacture their equipment.

I assume that they lack stuff like depleted uranium armor or advanced composites, and instead simply try to do the best with what they've got, so they've got sort of cheap versions of the Leclerc and the VBCI and all.

EDIT: I'll note now that I never magicked anything up. My OOBs are always the result of proper research and skullduggery.