KrauserKrauser hyperventilating(Obama's Gates comment)

[Kamakazie Sith]

Apparently the dispatch call and 911 call are released now(Is this normal?). It honestly doesn't sound like what the officer describes, unless officer radios don't pick up ambient noise at all.

It's public record so if you want them you can get them, but you need to fill out the proper paperwork. Anyway, it's clear that someone is lying or is simply mistaken. The detail in Sgt. Crowley's report makes me wonder who is lying. Sgt. Crowley describes his encounter with Whalen pretty well though.

As for police radios they don't pick up ambient noise because you'd effectively jam all other transmissions.

[Big Phil]

Playing devils advocate, it's possible crowley made a simple mistake in the report in saying that the witness described gates as two black men. It would be easy to make that mistake after the episode. Of course, it could also have been added on purpose for some reason...

[KrauserKrauser]

Maybe it was Gate's "Black man in America!" opening mind that might still be lingering around in his head.

Gates was a fucking douchebag and Obama was stupid to blindly support him and give the finger to the cops.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Playing devils advocate, it's possible crowley made a simple mistake in the report in saying that the witness described gates as two black men. It would be easy to make that mistake after the episode. Of course, it could also have been added on purpose for some reason...

I forgot to suggest this as a possibility. Sometimes you can get things mixed up in your head when you go to write a report on an incident like this one.

[Themightytom]

Is this what you were looking for, or was there another report out there?

oh sweet! That sheds some light on the "disorderly conduct" charge I didn't realize there was a crowd gathering. NO mention of the concern about other people being present but I suppose you can forgget to put some things in a report under such duress.

[Big Phil]

Maybe it was Gate's "Black man in America!" opening mind that might still be lingering around in his head.

Gates was a fucking douchebag and Obama was stupid to blindly support him and give the finger to the cops.

Dude, stop being such a dildo. Other than regurgitating Boss Limbaugh's racist bullshit you haven't contributed much to this thread, in spite of starting it.

[Glocksman]

Maybe it was Gate's "Black man in America!" opening mind that might still be lingering around in his head.

Gates was a fucking douchebag and Obama was stupid to blindly support him and give the finger to the cops.

Gates may very well have been a 'douchebag'.
The problem is that being a douchebag to a cop isn't supposed to be a crime.

I fucking expect the police to be professional 99+% of the time.
That perhaps 1% percent I can understand doesn't include arresting someone whom you pissed off in their own home.
A cop breaking down when seeing a murderer standing over the body of the 6 year old he just cut up, and shooting the fucker, that I can understand.
I may not condone it, but I understand.

Gates? Gates could have been the biggest prick in a 50 mile radius, but that still doesn't justify arresting him on his own porch.

Unless actual evidence of Gates committing a crime materializes, Crowley was wrong.
Crowley needs to pay more attention to the course materials he uses.

[Count Chocula]

Gates? Gates could have been the biggest prick in a 50 mile radius, but that still doesn't justify arresting him on his own porch.

Assuming that Crowley's report is more-or-less factual (and I'm betting it is, since his partner and chief of police backed him), Gates pursued Crowley into his front yard, producing a racial, verbal harangue that drew a crowd of onlookers. Crowley stated that he left the foyer/porch because Gates was SO LOUD Crowley couldn't hear his dispatcher on his walkie-talkie. At that point Gates became a public nuisance, his property or not, and despite repeated warnings kept on yakking.

From what I've read, Crowley (and his partner) were professional throughout, and Gates was the one (and keep in mind that his front door was sprung from a prior burglary attempt and not repaired) who kept escalating the situation. From what I've read, Gates was indeed a prick and did indeed earn his arrest.

[Darth Wong]

Gates? Gates could have been the biggest prick in a 50 mile radius, but that still doesn't justify arresting him on his own porch.

Assuming that Crowley's report is more-or-less factual (and I'm betting it is, since his partner and chief of police backed him), Gates pursued Crowley into his front yard, producing a racial, verbal harangue that drew a crowd of onlookers. Crowley stated that he left the foyer/porch because Gates was SO LOUD Crowley couldn't hear his dispatcher on his walkie-talkie. At that point Gates became a public nuisance, his property or not, and despite repeated warnings kept on yakking.

From what I've read, Crowley (and his partner) were professional throughout, and Gates was the one (and keep in mind that his front door was sprung from a prior burglary attempt and not repaired) who kept escalating the situation. From what I've read, Gates was indeed a prick and did indeed earn his arrest.

You are so right. He failed to respect the authoritah! Anyone who does that should be arrested, in order to keep him from getting too uppity.

[Glocksman]

Gates? Gates could have been the biggest prick in a 50 mile radius, but that still doesn't justify arresting him on his own porch.

Assuming that Crowley's report is more-or-less factual (and I'm betting it is, since his partner and chief of police backed him), Gates pursued Crowley into his front yard, producing a racial, verbal harangue that drew a crowd of onlookers. Crowley stated that he left the foyer/porch because Gates was SO LOUD Crowley couldn't hear his dispatcher on his walkie-talkie. At that point Gates became a public nuisance, his property or not, and despite repeated warnings kept on yakking.

From what I've read, Crowley (and his partner) were professional throughout, and Gates was the one (and keep in mind that his front door was sprung from a prior burglary attempt and not repaired) who kept escalating the situation. From what I've read, Gates was indeed a prick and did indeed earn his arrest.

Being backed by his partner and COP doesn't mean squat given the 'blue wall', but let's say for the sake of argument that you're right in that Gates was so loud and obnoxious, he became a 'public nuisance'.

This link explains just what constitues 'public disorder' under MA law.

I freely concede that Gates was a dick, but that's not a crime.
If a cop's feelings are so hurt by someone's commentary that he acts outside of the law to punish that person, I submit that said police officer is manifestly unfit to be a police officer and should be dismissed from his job and prosecuted for civil rights violations if his conduct rises to the level of criminal intent.

[Darth Wong]

It's so easy for white people to declare that any black person who has a chip on his shoulder about race must be an asshole, isn't it?

If Gates is to be accused of anything, it's stupidity. He should have known when to quit. But yelling at a cop for harassing you in your own home while standing on your front lawn is not exactly hard to understand when you think you're looking at a case of being stopped by police for blackness.

[Count Chocula]

What? Canada doesn't have laws against disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance? Gates was pretty obviously on a tear, regardless of the cause, and his brain got stuck in neutral. I've been pulled over by the RCMP traveling in Canada (Saskatchewan province, does that count?) and guess what...I was polite to the officer. And that was just a 10km-over speeding arrest.

Gates' behavior towards an officer investigating, per department procedure, a neighbor-reported break-in at a house that had already had one attempted burglary, was just stupid. In my mind, it's foolish and narcissistic to insult and verbally assault a man who was called to your house to protect your property and possibly yourself, given that Crowley had no idea if Gates was even in the house and reluctantly produced only a faculty ID.

[Darth Wong]

What, have you got a fucking reading problem? I never denied that it was stupid to be so confrontational toward the police officer. I was just pointing out that it's really fucking easy for you white people to brush off the notion that it might actually be understandable for a black man to react that way, in that circumstance. Oh no, it means he's an asshole!

[Count Chocula]

I was just pointing out that it's really fucking easy for you white people to brush off the notion that it might actually be understandable for a black man to react that way, in that circumstance. Oh no, it means he's an asshole!

"Color" me skeptical, but I have a hard time understanding a Harvard professor reacting that way, or having that big a chip on his shoulder. I expect a higher standard of comportment from a tenured professor, regardless of color or perceived provocation. Somehow, I doubt Cambridge MA is a hotbed of racism, unlike, oh, rural Florida. The man is in the elite of America's university staff, and acted like a community college gym teacher on his worst day. And what's with the "you white people" shit? I didn't see that one coming from you.

[LMSx]

Here's a link to a transcript, I've quoted and bolded the relevant parts.

Now, I've -- I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcing disproportionately. That's just a fact.

As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in the society.

That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us.

And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently, and oftentime for no cause, casts suspicion even when there is good cause. And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody's going to be.

He specifically says he has no idea what role race played in this. Then Obama goes on to address some important historical background/context for this controversy -and this is the important part- relates that context to the present day by pointing out how this racial history can taint even completely color-blind police actions. I understand why someone would object to Obama's criticism of the police officer's action as uninformed, foot in the mouth, you need to know local statutes, whatever. But there's no way to read that and come away with the accusation of racism. "I don't know if there was racism involved, but obviously there's a history involved that makes everyone jumpy even if it's completely color-blind. Let's try and fix that."

"I don't know what role race had in this incident," but clearly, Mr. President, race did have something to do with this incident? That's nonsense. I object to the assumption that he's making that race played any role, here, at all. That's totally unsupported by the facts. And, yeah, it is an example of whiny, infantile minority leadership leaping to racism without a shred of evidence.

I suppose it doesn't help that his number 1 and 2 things that "it's fair to say" are total bullshit: I would NOT have been pissed off at the officer. The Cambridge police did NOT act stupidly by arresting Gates. And race had nothing whatsoever to do with this incident except as a bullshit justification of Gates' assholery and ridiculous behavior.

When the arrested man publicly says he was a victim of racism and there are differing accounts on what happened, yes, that means it's now fair to engage what role if any race had. It's a serious accusation! And Obama acknowledged that already-existing claim responsibly in an evidence-based fashion, taking pains to not draw racial conclusions about the officer before he had all the facts. "No role" is certainly one of the options available for him.

[Darth Wong]

I was just pointing out that it's really fucking easy for you white people to brush off the notion that it might actually be understandable for a black man to react that way, in that circumstance. Oh no, it means he's an asshole!

"Color" me skeptical, but I have a hard time understanding a Harvard professor reacting that way, or having that big a chip on his shoulder.

Of course you do.

I expect a higher standard of comportment from a tenured professor, regardless of color or perceived provocation. Somehow, I doubt Cambridge MA is a hotbed of racism, unlike, oh, rural Florida. The man is in the elite of America's university staff, and acted like a community college gym teacher on his worst day. And what's with the "you white people" shit? I didn't see that one coming from you.

Why shouldn't I say that? You're acting like the stereotypical smug white fucker. And you won't even stop. I like the way you imply that a black person is only allowed to have a chip on his shoulder about race if he's a dumb nigger, and not a well-educated person.

[Count Chocula]

Why shouldn't I say that? You're acting like the stereotypical smug white fucker.

Well I can't, no won't, argue against your ad hominem position. Enjoy your moment of biased stereotyping bliss, Mr. Wong.

EDIT

I like the way you imply that a black person is only allowed to have a chip on his shoulder about race if he's a dumb nigger, and not a well-educated person.

You completely missed the point; allow me to elucidate it further. Ignorant people, you may have noticed, tend to fly off the handle and say stupid shit more frequently than those more educated. Black, white, brown, yellow, it doesn't really matter, stupid is as stupid does. Neither Gates nor Crowley strike me as stupid men...normally. Gates clearly acted stupidly in this instance. He should have acted more maturely than he apparently did, judging by his words and behavior. Crowley's insistence that he prove he lived at the house was entirely within proper procedure; Gates showed his ass in reply.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Gates? Gates could have been the biggest prick in a 50 mile radius, but that still doesn't justify arresting him on his own porch.

Assuming that Crowley's report is more-or-less factual (and I'm betting it is, since his partner and chief of police backed him), Gates pursued Crowley into his front yard, producing a racial, verbal harangue that drew a crowd of onlookers. Crowley stated that he left the foyer/porch because Gates was SO LOUD Crowley couldn't hear his dispatcher on his walkie-talkie. At that point Gates became a public nuisance, his property or not, and despite repeated warnings kept on yakking.

From what I've read, Crowley (and his partner) were professional throughout, and Gates was the one (and keep in mind that his front door was sprung from a prior burglary attempt and not repaired) who kept escalating the situation. From what I've read, Gates was indeed a prick and did indeed earn his arrest.

Being backed by his partner and COP doesn't mean squat given the 'blue wall', but let's say for the sake of argument that you're right in that Gates was so loud and obnoxious, he became a 'public nuisance'.

This link explains just what constitues 'public disorder' under MA law.

I freely concede that Gates was a dick, but that's not a crime.
If a cop's feelings are so hurt by someone's commentary that he acts outside of the law to punish that person, I submit that said police officer is manifestly unfit to be a police officer and should be dismissed from his job and prosecuted for civil rights violations if his conduct rises to the level of criminal intent.

Did you read that entire article because it states that being outside could constitute a public setting. According to the report Gates was arrested after being outside and being warned twice when a crowd was attracted. According to your article that could be an acceptable arrest.

[[R_H]]

Skip Gates Speaks

The Root: We’ve all seen the police and media reports around your arrest last Thursday in Cambridge, Mass., Charles Ogletree issued a statement to The Root that included a synopsis of the incident. But what have you been going through since Thursday?

Henry Louis Gates Jr.: I’m outraged. I can’t believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I’m astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race. And I’m deeply resolved to do and say the right things so that this cannot happen again.

Of course, it will happen again, but … I want to do what I can so that every police officer will think twice before engaging in this kind of behavior.

TR: Can you describe, in your own words, what went on in and outside of your home? When did you suspect you were the victim of racial profiling?

HLG: I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service. And went to my home arriving at about 12:30 in the afternoon. My driver and I carried several bags up to the porch, and we fiddled with the door and it was jammed. I thought, well, maybe the door’s latched. So I walked back to the kitchen porch, unlocked the door and came into the house. And I unlatched the door, but it was still jammed.

My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I’ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I’m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday.

It looked like someone’s footprint was there. So it’s possible that the door had been jimmied, that someone had tried to get in while I was in China. But for whatever reason, the lock was damaged. My driver hit the door with his shoulder and the door popped open. But the lock was permanently disfigured. My home is owned by Harvard University, and so any kind of repair work that’s needed, Harvard will come and do it. I called this person, and she was, in fact, on the line while all of this was going on.

I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.

So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.

But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly.

TR: How did this escalate? What are the laws in Cambridge that govern this kind of interaction? Did you ever think you were in the wrong?

HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.

It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”

It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.

A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’

TR: What was the jail experience like? Was it humiliating?

HLG: By the time I was processed at the Cambridge jail, I was booked, fingerprinted, given a mug shot and answered questions. Outrageous is the only word that I can use. The system attempts to humiliate you. They took my belt; they took my wallet, they took my keys, some change; they counted my money. And I knew that because they said, ‘We’re going to release you upon your own recognizance, and the fine is $40, and we know you can pay it because we went through your wallet.’

It’s meant to be terrifying and humiliating. And I couldn’t believe that this was happening to me. And I said I can’t wait to get out, I am eager to talk to my lawyer, and they said they had to book me first. Then I was told that Charles Ogletree was in the building, and that he was there with three other Harvard professors—my friends Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham, Larry Bobo and Marcelina Lee Morgan.

I was in jail for four hours. I told them that I was claustrophobic, that I couldn’t be in this cell. And a very nice police officer said here are some of your friends and I could talk to them one at a time in the interview room until the magistrate came and signed the form allowing me to leave. I was there just between 1:00 p.m. and 5:15 p.m., which is an interminable amount of time. I spent the rest of the time in another room, slightly bigger, and my friends just had to sit there and wait. And it was kind of like a Senate filibuster; we had to tell stories in the prison cell.

TR: How has this resonated within the academic community at Harvard? I know that Larry Bobo and Charles Ogletree, also black men, have expressed dismay. President Barack Obama has talked about how difficult it is to hail a cab, even as an elected official. Is there an irony to your notoriety and the incident?

HLG: There is such a level of outrage that’s been expressed to me. I’ve received thousands of e-mails and Facebook messages; the blogs are going crazy; my colleagues at Harvard are outraged. Allen Counter called me from the Nobel Institute in Stockholm to express his outrage. But really it’s not about me—it’s that anybody black can be treated this way, just arbitrarily arrested out of spite. And the man who arrested me did it out of spite, because he knew I was going to file a report because of his behavior.

He didn’t follow proper police procedure! You can’t just presume I’m guilty and arrest me. He’s supposed to ask me if I need help. He just presumed that I was guilty, and he presumed that I was guilty because I was black. There was no doubt about that.

TR: What do you make of the suspicious neighbor who called the police with an erroneous report of “two black men” trying to enter your apartment? Was this neighborhood watch gone wrong?

and I’m sure that she thought she was doing the right thing. If I was on Martha’s Vineyard like I am now and someone was trying to break into my house, I would hope that someone called the police and that they would respond. But I would hope that the police wouldn’t arrest the first black man that they saw—especially after that person gives them an ID—and not rely on some trumped-up charge, which is what this man was doing.

TR: The charges have been dropped. What are your plans for legal action against the city of Cambridge, its police department or the individual officer?

HLG: I’ll be meeting with my legal team, and we will be deciding what kind of legal action I should take. I haven’t made the decision yet. But I am determined that this experience, my experience, as horrendous as it was and as outrageous as it was, be used for the larger good of the black community. There are 1 million black men in the prison system, and on Thursday I became one of them. I would sooner have believed the sky was going to fall from the heavens than I would have believed this could happen to me. It shouldn’t have happened to me, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone.

As a college professor, I want to make this a teaching experience. I am going to devote my considerable resources, intellectual and otherwise, to making sure this doesn’t happen again. I’m thinking about making a documentary film about racial profiling, and I’m in talks with PBS about that.

TR: Does this put to rest the idea that America is post-racial?

HLG: I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning. There is no more important event in the history of black people in America than the election of Barack Obama. I cried when he was elected, and I cried at his inauguration, but that does not change the percentage of black men in prison, the percentage of black men harassed by racial profiling. It does not change the number of black children living near the poverty line. Which is almost a similar percentage as were under poverty when Martin Luther King was assassinated.

There haven’t been fundamental structural changes in America. There’s been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama. But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Glocksman]

It's so easy for white people to declare that any black person who has a chip on his shoulder about race must be an asshole, isn't it?

If Gates is to be accused of anything, it's stupidity. He should have known when to quit. But yelling at a cop for harassing you in your own home while standing on your front lawn is not exactly hard to understand when you think you're looking at a case of being stopped by police for blackness.

IOW, Obama was originally right when he said that both of them were acting stupidly.
I'm willing to give Crowley the benefit of the doubt and say he's not guilty of racism.

That said, I'll also say that if Gates had been a 'lippy' white guy, Crowley would have arrested him as well.
I base this on my own experience when I was once threatened with a beatdown by a cop when I was 19 and merely guilty of speeding 10 mph over the limit and if I hadn't pulled over in a hospital parking lot* at shift change, he almost certainly would have worked me over with that Mag-lite he was waving in my face and threatening to 'beat the shit' out of me with.

That single incident has led me be much more credulous when I read about some cop threatening someone.

Though I should also add that during the one time I was actually arrested (got caught stealing hubcaps 2 months after my 18th birthday on a gag dare**) by the police, the cop in question was very professional, answered all of my questions and wasn't an asshole who made me bitter about being arrested.

Looking back on it with hindsight, the cop who busted me was pretty good at 'verbal judo' and knew when and how to diffuse difficult situations without first resorting to the PR-24 or mace canister.

I'm sure there are those who'll accuse me of holding cops to a higher standard than I do civilians.
I most certainly do.
Unlike civilians, police have the legal power to detain, arrest, and question people.
With those powers come higher standards of behavior.

Going by what I've seen and heard so far, Crowley arrested Gates for 'contempt of cop'.
While I can sympathize with Crowley (no one likes being abused for doing your job), professional behavior on his part wouldn't have led to any arrest and might in fact have led to a quiet apology from Gates for initially being a prick.

I'm a union steward and there are numerous times I've been cussed up one side and down the other by pissed off people ranting and blowing off steam, so while I don't know specifically what it's like to be a cop, I have been on the receiving end of misplaced anger.

In fact, several of them went beyond 'venting' and violated company rules enough to have been immediately terminated if a manager had heard the conversation.

Did I turn them in?
Fuck no I didn't.
One reason is that I knew that such abuse would occasionally come along as part of the job.
Another is that I'm not a 'rat' by nature.
I guess the reason that bears the most relevance is that I came to realize that it wasn't 'personal' and that he or she would be screaming at Mickey Mouse if he were the steward.

Though I will admit to satisfaction on several levels when one particularly obnoxious person had been complaining for several minutes about the union in general (several of which I privately agreed with) and then started on me in particular.

After he'd vented and calmed down, he actually apologized for blaming me.
Listening is one of my best tools in such situations and can work wonders.

Was is Peter Parker's Uncle Ben who said 'with great power comes great responsibility'?
It's true.




**Charges dismissed upon successful completion of a 'pre-trial diversion' program, just like the cop said when I asked him what would happen to me.
* No, I wasn't speeding in the hospital lot.
I pulled over into the lot because the cop was in an unmarked car, and for all I knew he could have been some volunteer fireman fucking with his lightbar, so I wanted witnesses.
Considering what happened I'm fortunate I did pull over into that lot instead of a lonely curbside.

[Glocksman]

Did you read that entire article because it states that being outside could constitute a public setting. According to the report Gates was arrested after being outside and being warned twice when a crowd was attracted. According to your article that could be an acceptable arrest.

I didn't post links to them (my apologies) but I've seen several articles that claim being on one's own porch in a residential area doesn't rise to the level of 'acceptable' under several MA court rulings.

Now Sgt Crowley either might not have been aware of those rulings or I'm blowing smoke out of my ass based on biased reports, but my inclination is to blame the arrest on Crowley not liking Gates's reactions and looking for a reason to charge him, instead being either based on Gates's race or that the bare facts called for an arrest.

If facts later come to evidence that prove me wrong in my conclusions, I'll freely admit to the error.

[Keevan_Colton]

I also find it interesting that the assumption is that Gates drew the crowd and not the presence of police officers/cars outside in the afternoon causing curious neighbours to come investigate.

[Darth Wong]

Why shouldn't I say that? You're acting like the stereotypical smug white fucker.

Well I can't, no won't, argue against your ad hominem position. Enjoy your moment of biased stereotyping bliss, Mr. Wong.

Yet again, Moron Boy demonstrates that he doesn't even know what an ad-hominem fallacy is. He just quotes fancy words he heard and thinks he understands.

EDIT

I like the way you imply that a black person is only allowed to have a chip on his shoulder about race if he's a dumb nigger, and not a well-educated person.

You completely missed the point; allow me to elucidate it further. Ignorant people, you may have noticed, tend to fly off the handle and say stupid shit more frequently than those more educated. Black, white, brown, yellow, it doesn't really matter, stupid is as stupid does. Neither Gates nor Crowley strike me as stupid men...normally. Gates clearly acted stupidly in this instance. He should have acted more maturely than he apparently did, judging by his words and behavior. Crowley's insistence that he prove he lived at the house was entirely within proper procedure; Gates showed his ass in reply.

No, YOU missed the point. I never said it was not stupid. I said it was not "asshole". You keep trying to change the subject because you have no case. Your arrogant dismissal of black racial emotion is, as stated earlier, stereotypical of smug white fuckers.

[Darth Wong]

I also find it interesting that the assumption is that Gates drew the crowd and not the presence of police officers/cars outside in the afternoon causing curious neighbours to come investigate.

Even if he did draw the crowd, you don't necessarily know why. Given some of the history of race relations in the US, it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted a crowd, so there would be witnesses in case the cop did something really bad.

[Keevan_Colton]

I also find it interesting that the assumption is that Gates drew the crowd and not the presence of police officers/cars outside in the afternoon causing curious neighbours to come investigate.

Even if he did draw the crowd, you don't necessarily know why. Given some of the history of race relations in the US, it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted a crowd, so there would be witnesses in case the cop did something really bad.

I tend to agree, there is also the matter of the police report not only contradicting Gates account, but also the public statement of the witness that made the call.