Nevada attitudes toward water conservation

[Darmalus]

What about a mesh cover of some kind? Chicken wire and cheese cloth immediately comes to mind, but I am sure there are better solutions.

[Redleader34]

Do what my grandfather does, put rain barrel out when it rains, cover it when it stops, or for the gutters, have the gutter drain into a rain barrel with a hole for the gutter connection, then cover up the hole.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

An "airtight water barrel" would also keep the rain out, wouldn't it? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Not if you're using something else as the collection point.

[Sea Skimmer]

An "airtight water barrel" would also keep the rain out, wouldn't it? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Not if you're using something else as the collection point.

Or if you just put mesh over the point in which the rain drops in, and install a very simple one way valve to let the overflow and air pressure in.

[Molyneux]

Do what my grandfather does, put rain barrel out when it rains, cover it when it stops, or for the gutters, have the gutter drain into a rain barrel with a hole for the gutter connection, then cover up the hole.

That's what I had been thinking - covering up the rain barrel when it's not actively raining. Sorry if I was vague!

[FSTargetDrone]

Everyone already covered it, but as an example of a government rain barrel program in Virginia:

Rain Barrel FAQs

What do the rain barrels look like and where do you get them?
The rain barrels are made from black, grey or blue plastic barrels that used to hold pickles, peppers or onions. We purchase these barrels from a variety of barrel distributors, and recycle them into rain barrels.

How large are the rain barrels?
The rain barrels hold approximately 50 gallons. They are 23 inches wide. The range from 41.25 inches to 43.75 inches tall.

Will I get mosquitoes in my rain barrel?
The rain barrels are capped with fiberglass screen that allows water in, but keeps mosquitoes from getting into the barrel to lay their eggs. However, if you are concerned about mosquitoes breeding in your rain barrel, you can add half a Mosquito Dunk to the water in your barrel to kill mosquito larvae. Mosquito Dunks can be purchased at most garden supply stores.

I can't make a rain barrel workshop. Do you have suggestions for places to order rain barrels or purchase a barrel so I can build my own?
We have a list of sustainability resources available to download that includes sources for rain barrels. A list of suppliers is also available on the Arlington County web site.

I have my rain barrel at home. How do I install it?
Download our installation instructions. If you need additional assistance, we have compiled a rain barrel accessories list that includes contact information for local installers.

I prefer not to shorten my downspout. Is there another way to hook up my rain barrel?
Another option for installing your rain barrel is to use a downspout diverter. Diverters can be manual or automatic. The main advantage of the diverter is that it can be used to regulate the flow of water into the rain barrel. Often you also don't have to shorten your downspout, but you will probably will still have to cut into the downspout to install the diverter. Sources for diverters are available on our rain barrel accessories list.

Is the water in the rain barrel safe to use in my vegetable garden?
There are differing opinions on this subject. Rain barrels that collect water from copper roofs or from roofs where wooden shingles or shakes have been treated with CCA (chromated copper arsenate) to prevent moss or algae growth should not be used on edible plants. If you have treated your roof with chemicals or installed zinc strips to prevent moss or algae growth, you should also not use the water in your rain barrel in your vegetable garden. Other considerations include the potential for air pollution in your area. Water flowing from your roof can contain deposited air pollutants. However, this water may end up in your vegetable garden anyway. No matter what you decide, make sure to wash all your garden produce thoroughly before you eat it!

[FSTargetDrone]

Forgot the picture:



The mesh is held down, water goes in, mosquitoes don't.

[thejester]

An "airtight water barrel" would also keep the rain out, wouldn't it? Sort of defeats the purpose.

In Australia it's standard practice to have a large tank hooked up to your gutter system. So the only way into the tank would be flying down the gutter tube, which I assume would be mosquito proof.

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm curious, what sort of technological solutions are there to extend the water supply aside from conservation, without putting a strain on acquifers or rivers? Huge fucking nuclear desalination plants is the only thing that comes to mind.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm curious, what sort of technological solutions are there to extend the water supply aside from conservation, without putting a strain on acquifers or rivers? Huge fucking nuclear desalination plants is the only thing that comes to mind.

Well, huge fucking nuclear desalination plants work perfectly!

[Sea Skimmer]

If we wanted to avoid additional destruction of river ecosystems, we could also build some additional dams in dry valleys to store extra water whenever we can grab it. I don’t think we have a shortage of desert land/mountain habitat that we can carve a little more off of. They can be filled up by the surplus night power from the nuclear stations.

[Darth Wong]

I'm curious, what sort of technological solutions are there to extend the water supply aside from conservation, without putting a strain on acquifers or rivers? Huge fucking nuclear desalination plants is the only thing that comes to mind.

Well, huge fucking nuclear desalination plants work perfectly!

An even cheaper solution is to ignore the evidence, pretend there's no problem, continue using more and more of the water, and hope that you get Raptured to Heaven before it runs out. I believe this is the Republican plan.

More seriously, if climate change patterns do reduce the overall amount of rainfall and mountain-peak snowfall in that region, they are fucked. It's not as if you can build a nuclear powered desalinization plant overnight, and the resulting water would be more expensive. Any other mitigation methods can't really do anything about a downward trend in water source quantity; at best, they can attempt to smooth out irregularities or provide more equitable distribution.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm curious, what sort of technological solutions are there to extend the water supply aside from conservation, without putting a strain on acquifers or rivers? Huge fucking nuclear desalination plants is the only thing that comes to mind.

Well, huge fucking nuclear desalination plants work perfectly!

An even cheaper solution is to ignore the evidence, pretend there's no problem, continue using more and more of the water, and hope that you get Raptured to Heaven before it runs out. I believe this is the Republican plan.

More seriously, if climate change patterns do reduce the overall amount of rainfall and mountain-peak snowfall in that region, they are fucked. It's not as if you can build a nuclear powered desalinization plant overnight, and the resulting water would be more expensive. Any other mitigation methods can't really do anything about a downward trend in water source quantity; at best, they can attempt to smooth out irregularities or provide more equitable distribution.

It will at least provide enough water for agriculture in areas suited to agriculture. The ridiculous water-heavy desert lifestyle is, of course, fucked.

[Sea Skimmer]

How expensive would it be to pump water 2,000 vertical feet? A 1000 mile diversion tunnel from the Mississippi to the Colorado watershed might only cost a few hundred billion dollars based on the Chunnel and Water Tunnel No.3 in New York. Stupider uses of money have been engaged in.

[Darth Wong]

How expensive would it be to pump water 2,000 vertical feet? A 1000 mile diversion tunnel from the Mississippi to the Colorado watershed might only cost a few hundred billion dollars based on the Chunnel and Water Tunnel No.3 in New York. Stupider uses of money have been engaged in.

Wouldn't the eastern states have an issue with the western states taking their water?

[Sea Skimmer]

Wouldn't the eastern states have an issue with the western states taking their water?

Unlikely. Mississippi flooding is a far greater problem then any water shortage ever has been. Keep in mind that downstream of St. Louis the Mississippi is completely free of dams so no water can be stored in any case. The eastern side of the drainage basin has some problems sometimes, but the water would be removed from the basin downstream of those areas in Tennessee and Kentucky. The only real issue is ensuring the river shipping channel retains enough depth for barge traffic, but we could deepen the channel. I don’t think that’s really a serious issue

Some fairly colossal diversion tunnels have actually been proposed as a means bypassing major chokepoints in the river, like St. Louis itself (it has huge floodwalls right on the rivers edge, bad combo), and to divert water into different watersheds downstream. Surface canals are already used for that. At one point it was proposed to build exactly the kind of tunnel I proposed, but only into the Nebraska region, an area suffering water problems itself. None of this has happened because recent policy on Mississippi flood control has been to pull back levees from the river, and buy out towns in flood prone areas rather then increasing our scale of anti flood fortification. Meanwhile the eastern midwest farms continue to creep by and ignore the growing groundwater shortage. So Vegas better cash in before Nebraska faces reality first.

[Glocksman]

OK, so you wash your car more carefully than you wash yourself. We get it. That doesn't mean it's a responsible use of water for someone who lives in a desert.

True.
Washing a car using a crapload of water is perfectly acceptable here in Vanderburgh County because the huge majority of our water comes from the Ohio river, and the traditional worry about the Ohio is flooding, not drought.

That said, you will find a surprising amount of people in the area who support usage restrictions, runoff limits, etc., simply because we are far enough downstream from other river communities to suffer the consequences if they don't impose any limitations.

This year, we've had enough rain that I only had to wash my car twice.
Once was the week after I bought it in mid April.
After the wash, I used an inexpensive Turtle Wax compound.
I didn't expect it to last a month, but I'm surprised.
Especially since I had it washed at the end of June at one of those fundraiser carwashes* you see on Saturday mornings in the parking lots of local businesses.
Here it is almost 3 months after the waxing, and it still beads the rain despite our heavier than normal rainfall.


*I was torn between gawking at the 30 something mothers in shorts washing my car on behalf of their teenage cheerleader children, and telling the kids themselves to go put on some more clothing.
Heck, IMHO the 17 year old teenybopper isn't even worth looking at when you consider just what her 37 year old recently divorced mother offers.

[Broomstick]

Wouldn't the eastern states have an issue with the western states taking their water?

Unlikely.

Wrong. Very likely. The Great Lakes, for example, have been fighting water diversion to the west for half a century. States that use the Mississippi only have to the look at the Colorado River and say "No, we want to keep our water"

Mississippi flooding is a far greater problem then any water shortage ever has been.

Yes, periodically the Mississippi floods. All the rest of the time it's a useful river. That doesn't mean that anyone would be enthused about shipping half its water west. Unless you have a useful proposal to capture only the floodwaters I doubt you'll find any takers.

Keep in mind that downstream of St. Louis the Mississippi is completely free of dams so no water can be stored in any case.

Keep in mind that downstream of St. Louis the Mississippi bears an uncomfortable resemblance to a toxic waste dump. You'll need some extensive water treatment if you want to use it for anything.

The only real issue is ensuring the river shipping channel retains enough depth for barge traffic, but we could deepen the channel. I don’t think that’s really a serious issue

Yes, I think it is. First of all, the Western states have sucked the Colorado dry - it no longer reaches the sea. You think they wouldn't be tempted to do that to the Mississippi? All they care about is growing water-intensive crops in the desert, they obviously don't give a fuck what they do to destroy a river in the process.

Second - the Mississippi bottom moves around a lot. Seriously. Shipping landmarks change frequently and its already not unheard of for barges to run aground because some sandbar moved. That has been a problem of the Mississippi since the first shipping started. Sure, dig it out, but it's going to silt back up quickly and reconfigure. You can't just dig it out once, you'll have to do it continually, as maintenance.

Who's gonna pay for all this? The dry states so desperate for water they'll destroy the environment to get it, then wreck someone else's back yard? Ha!

Meanwhile the eastern midwest farms continue to creep by and ignore the growing groundwater shortage. So Vegas better cash in before Nebraska faces reality first.

Are we all working from the same definition of "midwest" here? Or are you all really that unclear on the geography? There is no "growing groundwater shortage" in the "eastern midwest". The Ogallala aquifer is running dry, but given that its western border is New Mexico, Colordao, and Wyoming I wouldn't call it "eastern" anything. Is there some other major aquifer that's being drained that is actually in the east of something?

[Feral Abacus]

NSW is under water restrictions now too? (sorry to derail the thread) I knew Victoria has been for a long time now since during summer it's dryer that a witches tit, but I thought you guys were getting plenty of rain in your catchment areas.

They have for a while now. I lived in Goulburn in NSW when the drought was a lot worse than it currently is- dams were at 10% capacity. Residential restrictions were at stage 5, which meant 150 litres of water a day, per person. Gardening? Washing your car? No way- you can barely shower with that much water.

It's a lot less grim now, Goulburn has a pipe from Sydney, but yes- it was at least as bad as Victoria.

[Phantasee]

Washing a car the way Sephi says to is a once or twice a year thing, if I had a nice car. Wax it to protect the paint and clear coat, preferably after the winter. The rest of the time you are fine with a quick rinse, with maybe a little bit of foam brush/sponge on hard to remove mud, which also reduces the water usage since you aren't hosing it down for minutes with a pressure washer trying to get the dirt off. Most people wouldn't get much mud on their cars anyway, though. Other than the spring, of course.

[Darth Wong]

Wouldn't the eastern states have an issue with the western states taking their water?

Unlikely.

Wrong. Very likely. The Great Lakes, for example, have been fighting water diversion to the west for half a century. States that use the Mississippi only have to the look at the Colorado River and say "No, we want to keep our water"

I think it would be interesting to see what kind of political reaction there would be, to the idea of shipping half the Mississippi to the west. I'm guessing people would be up in arms about the idea. Water is considered a sovereignty issue for many people. Saying that you want to take somebody's water is like saying that you want to occupy their parkland. It doesn't play well, even among people who rarely visit the parks.

[Serafina]

Every time someone want to reroute major water sources, i tell him about the Aral Sea.

Not only did it ruina major fishing ground, but it also salted the area, making it almost completly infertile.

Oh, and the water from the sea was used for...growing cotton.
Irony, anyone?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Every time someone want to reroute major water sources, i tell him about the Aral Sea.

Not only did it ruina major fishing ground, but it also salted the area, making it almost completly infertile.

Oh, and the water from the sea was used for...growing cotton.
Irony, anyone?

Then you're simply not thinking, because the only way to restore the Aral sea will be also by diverting water from other sources. These plans would allow the level of the Caspian to be controlled and would divert water from the Arctic Sea, which desperately needs less fresh water in it, to refill this central desert basin, ultimately to its maximum expanse. Also re-lining the Kara-Kum canal and associated canals with concrete as a third aspect would provide another 20 kilometers of water a year back to the Aral. Cumulatively 90 kilometers of water a year would be restored to the basin through all of those projects, when the 1950 level was only about 50 kilometers of water a year... We'd have the Aral Sea very rapidly back to its largest expanse ever, which happened some time ago, and then the amount of flow could be reduced to just enough to maintain that level--which would ideally including flooding part of the Kara-Kum desert as the sea did in ancient times to further increase the fish stocks for the peoples in the area.

[Surlethe]

As the earth warms, isn't average precipitation projected to increase? Flooding will probably be a more frequent problem - could the desertization of the west be more than offset by rainfall increases in the Mississippi basin?

[Darth Wong]

As the earth warms, isn't average precipitation projected to increase? Flooding will probably be a more frequent problem - could the desertization of the west be more than offset by rainfall increases in the Mississippi basin?

The location of the precipitation may change as well. I don't know if anyone is particularly confident about exactly how things will change.