Christian Recruitment Pamphlets...

[Darth Wong]

I believe Christian doctrine holds that children exist in a state of grace, and are essentially innocent. So what we need to do is construct air-pressure stone cannons, and then have small children operate them. Then we can stone his daughter. Righteously.

[Invictus ChiKen]

I've always wondered what would happen if one of them handed you a pamphlet, and you asked for another. And another. And another. Preferably his entire inventory. Would he get suspicious? Would he be weirded out? Would he just say no? What if you followed him and kept hounding him for more pamphlets?

I did something like that, back at Tech a man handed tracts and Bibles out after classes sometimes annoyed everyone one. I walked up to him and started hard selling him the same thing, you'd need to see Fundies in action to understand how they can hardsell each other the same thing with different terminologies. I kept him talking while the other students filed past, once everyone had gone I left. Poor guy didn't know what to do with someone there trying to hard sell him his own material.

[CarsonPalmer]

The entire idea of converting someone by pamphlet makes absolutely no sense to me, at all. Do they really expect someone to drop everything and convert to their particular stripe of Christianity just because they got a piece of paper declaring that the Bible says so? I don't get it at all.

[Darth Wong]

The entire idea of converting someone by pamphlet makes absolutely no sense to me, at all. Do they really expect someone to drop everything and convert to their particular stripe of Christianity just because they got a piece of paper declaring that the Bible says so? I don't get it at all.

Christian pamphlets are like any other kind of pamphlet; they only work as advertising if you're already leaning toward purchasing the product in the first place. Nobody runs out and buys a new car because somebody handed him a pamphlet, but if someone is already in the market for a new car, a pamphlet might get him to take another look at a particular model.

The problem with fundies is that they honestly don't understand that people are generally not looking to pick up a new religion.

[Simon_Jester]

Maybe they're the ones that the pamphlets did work on, and are unable to imagine that the rest of us aren't equally gullible. In their experience, the pamphlets are quite successful, since they and many of the people they know were brought to their church by a pamphlet. And they don't draw the connection that they are not a representative sample of the population.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Maybe they're the ones that the pamphlets did work on, and are unable to imagine that the rest of us aren't equally gullible. In their experience, the pamphlets are quite successful, since they and many of the people they know were brought to their church by a pamphlet. And they don't draw the connection that they are not a representative sample of the population.

Naw, they use pamphlets because it's easier than getting into dialogue. Within fundie circles, there is a compulsion to go out and witness for Jesus, and if they don't, then they're not real Christians and aren't truly saved. Handing out pamphlets is the easy way out for many of them.

They probably weren't converted by pamphlets, but they haven't stopped to think about whether such pamphlets are at all effective.

[Rahvin]

Naw, they use pamphlets because it's easier than getting into dialogue. Within fundie circles, there is a compulsion to go out and witness for Jesus, and if they don't, then they're not real Christians and aren't truly saved. Handing out pamphlets is the easy way out for many of them.

They probably weren't converted by pamphlets, but they haven't stopped to think about whether such pamphlets are at all effective.

Exactly. The last time I was given a pamphlet, it was by a pair of girls who said nothing more than "You take this" as they briskly walked past me. No conversation, no introduction, not even a friendly "Hello!"

The first time I was given a Chick Tract, the guy similarly avoided real conversation. He simply said "You know you boys are wasting your time with that garbage, right?" (some friends and I had just been speaking to a Buddhist peddling books, who was in contrast extremely friendly and tried to actually make polite conversation and tell us what he was about himself). Again no "hello," not even a reasonable "hey, would you like to learn about Jesus?"

[Simon_Jester]

I have this sudden image of every perfunctory evangelical's nightmare:

The guy who follows them and won't go away. The nontheists are painfully familiar with the clingy would-be missionary who's trying to convert them; I wonder if a fundie who just wants to get their "witnessing" out of the way ASAP is similarly annoyed by someone who won't stop talking at them until they've identified every flaw in the Chick tract.

[The Spartan]

Has anyone here ever seen From Dusk till Dawn 3: The Hangman's Daughter? Horrible movie, I thought, and it's been a few years since I've seen it, but I ask because it included a fictional depiction of Ambrose Bierce in a stage coach with a pair of missionaries. It included the following exchange:

Ambrose Bierce: My singular critique of the Good Book... is that its covers are too far apart.
Mary Newlie: Excuse me?
Ambrose Bierce: I am of the opinion that the, uh, Bible... is perhaps, the greatest assemblage of lies and untruths ever gathered together, with the possible exception of the Congressional record.
Mary Newlie: Are you an atheist, sir?
Ambrose Bierce: Yes, ma'am. Thanks to your God. I am an athiest.
Mary Newlie: Then there is no hope for your soul on the final day. When Gabriel blows his horn, your ears will be deaf... to the resounding tone of its glory, Mr. Bierce.
Ambrose Bierce: Oh, no. On the contrary, when Gabriel blows his horn, I shall be playing the tuba.

That only stuck with me because it's such an unusual, for me, reaction to the typical proselytizing.

[Intio]

I think the mentality of pamphleteers is similar to those theists who ignore any rebuttals or points raised to them, whether by email or in person. They simply carry on repeating rehearsed points and learned mantras. From having email contact with a few, I know that they simply view their beliefs as self-evident: they therefore have no need to explain, justify, or analyze them.

Often I've had the feeling that they think they are 'lowering' themselves into logical debate for my benefit - and if that doesn't work with me, well then simply wash rinse and repeat the whole damned "personal experience".

Pamphleteers seem to be the same: it's just so obvious that their way is the true way, so all it needs is the smallest of pushes. The more evident it is to them, the less they believe they need to show us.

And on campus preachers - I think a lot of them are trying to fulfil persecution complexes. Their self-image is that 'true' Christians are the persecuted few of God's choosing, and that the world will not heed their message. Whenever they encounter calm tolerance for their views this self-image becomes threatened. This, I believe, accounts for those Christians who throw themselves into confrontation as often and vociferously as they can. They need to feel like they are a persecuted minority.

Watch some clips of them on YouTube, it's suprising the number of those preachers who will twist any attempted conversation onto how they are hated or not represented by society.

[Patrick Degan]

Naw, they use pamphlets because it's easier than getting into dialogue. Within fundie circles, there is a compulsion to go out and witness for Jesus, and if they don't, then they're not real Christians and aren't truly saved. Handing out pamphlets is the easy way out for many of them.

They probably weren't converted by pamphlets, but they haven't stopped to think about whether such pamphlets are at all effective.

Exactly. The last time I was given a pamphlet, it was by a pair of girls who said nothing more than "You take this" as they briskly walked past me. No conversation, no introduction, not even a friendly "Hello!"

The first time I was given a Chick Tract, the guy similarly avoided real conversation. He simply said "You know you boys are wasting your time with that garbage, right?" (some friends and I had just been speaking to a Buddhist peddling books, who was in contrast extremely friendly and tried to actually make polite conversation and tell us what he was about himself). Again no "hello," not even a reasonable "hey, would you like to learn about Jesus?"

It is also a means to avoid conversation with the unsaved so as not to be contaminated by different ideas. Some sects practise this form of ideological insulation which is not unlike the methodology of a mind-control cult to retain the loyalties of the converted.

[Darth Wong]

Naw, they use pamphlets because it's easier than getting into dialogue. Within fundie circles, there is a compulsion to go out and witness for Jesus, and if they don't, then they're not real Christians and aren't truly saved. Handing out pamphlets is the easy way out for many of them.

They probably weren't converted by pamphlets, but they haven't stopped to think about whether such pamphlets are at all effective.

Exactly. The last time I was given a pamphlet, it was by a pair of girls who said nothing more than "You take this" as they briskly walked past me. No conversation, no introduction, not even a friendly "Hello!"

The first time I was given a Chick Tract, the guy similarly avoided real conversation. He simply said "You know you boys are wasting your time with that garbage, right?" (some friends and I had just been speaking to a Buddhist peddling books, who was in contrast extremely friendly and tried to actually make polite conversation and tell us what he was about himself). Again no "hello," not even a reasonable "hey, would you like to learn about Jesus?"

That might be simple laziness more than a belief-based behaviour. If they believe they get "God points" for witnessing to the "unsaved", but they're lazy shiftless clods, then they will try to witness to the heathens, but they will do the absolute minimum work per heathen. This kind of drive-by proselytizing allows them to reach far more people with the same amount of work, or to reach the same number of people with far less work.

[Davey]

Oh man. Great opportunity for some cheap laughs here: what you do is you take as many of those pamphlets as you can, and save them by your front door - you'll need ones from different religions to do this. Then when the door-to-door guys come around, hand them a pamphlet from something like Islam and totally turn the tables. The laughs are well worth the trouble.

[Intio]

From your phrasing, it sounds like you have already tried this. Any stories and reactions you'd like to tell us about?

[Davey]

From your phrasing, it sounds like you have already tried this. Any stories and reactions you'd like to tell us about?

Unfortunately, nothing golden just yet. My main problem is I can't seem to do it straight-faced (that, and there haven't been many door-to-door guys in a while), but someone who's a better actor than I am could probably get a lot better results.

[Lagmonster]

The most amusing comeback I ever heard to a street pamphlet-Christian was from a young woman at a downtown crosswalks. I was there with four other strangers waiting for the light to change, one of which was this young woman and another which was a street-corner proselytizer handing out pamphlets to every passer-by. After everyone else had politely declined to take one, she turned him down in no uncertain terms with the following remark: "I don't want that. If your god was such a big deal, he wouldn't need this (referring to the pamphlet) to get my attention."

[Axiomatic]

I've received two pamphlets in my life, and I treasure them both.

One of them told me about how we should all be vegetarians, because eating meat makes Mother Mary cry. The other one was a stern warning that psychic hinduists were infiltrating this country and need to be fought. It gave several names of suspected secret psychic hinduists and their masters.

[von Neufeld]

Oh man. Great opportunity for some cheap laughs here: what you do is you take as many of those pamphlets as you can, and save them by your front door - you'll need ones from different religions to do this. Then when the door-to-door guys come around, hand them a pamphlet from something like Islam and totally turn the tables. The laughs are well worth the trouble.

Has anyone tried the Cthulhu pamphlets?

[Aaron]

The most amusing comeback I ever heard to a street pamphlet-Christian was from a young woman at a downtown crosswalks. I was there with four other strangers waiting for the light to change, one of which was this young woman and another which was a street-corner proselytizer handing out pamphlets to every passer-by. After everyone else had politely declined to take one, she turned him down in no uncertain terms with the following remark: "I don't want that. If your god was such a big deal, he wouldn't need this (referring to the pamphlet) to get my attention."

That was under the Rideau Centre over-pass wasn't it? There's always someone down there handing out pamphlets or standing on a milk crate with a bull horn.

I think I've only received one pamphlet that wasn't a JW one, a local girl left a pamphlet describing Islam in my mailbox a year or so ago. I actually thought it was a decent idea considering how few non-christians/whites there are in the area.

[Lagmonster]

That was under the Rideau Centre over-pass wasn't it? There's always someone down there handing out pamphlets or standing on a milk crate with a bull horn.

And how. We really don't have that many fundies here, but we do see some and the ones we do have try extra hard in order to stand out.

[dworkin]

I suspect more doublethink at work here. On one level the fundy actually believes all this and that they can convert people. On the other they must realise it doesn't work. In this mindset, however they still go out to confirm that society rejects them which helps support a awful lot of the crazy.

[Surlethe]

I'll bet the "doublethink" is related to Calvinism. Under Calvinism, the impetus to engage in evangelism is divorced from the expectation of results: evangelism is an act of obedience to the Great Commission, while conversion - what a reasonable person expects from an act of evangelism - can occur only through the Holy Spirit working through a heart. This may or may not occur as a result of evangelism, and spreading the Word, while it may facilitate the working of the Spirit, in no way guarantees or even implies success.