KrauserKrauser hyperventilating(Obama's Gates comment)

[Ryan Thunder]

It's possible that 83% did not qualify him. Different high schools have different "fudge factors" because some of them grade rather easily. A while ago there was a student from one particular high school in Ontario who graduated with an average above one hundred percent, which is a good example of the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. That particular high school probably had a pretty high fudge factor.

I applied for some other ones but I didn't get them. That had nothing to do with race, my marks just weren't good enough.

In any case, it's worthless until he produces evidence, which he won't. But even if there were such programs that he would otherwise be eligible for (and I don't personally recall being eligible for any when I went to school here), he is failing to understand that such programs are entirely designed to compensate for pervasive racism directed against these minorities. Whining about them is only more of the same: he is refusing to recognize the need for these programs, and so he perceives them as unfair.

Alright, alright, I get it.

I would hope not, but I suppose that it could be true. My average when I graduated was something like an 83 or so.

You expect to get a scholarship with a mere 83% average?

What? No. I was talking about my university program. I applied for the scholarships and bursaries anyway just in case I got lucky somehow, though.

[muse]

What I'm not used to is dealing with people who pretty much size me up and figure I'm here because I'm white, rich, and male and proceed from there.

Gee, I wonder why?

[Darth Wong]

Indeed. You can tell from what he's posting here that he really needed to run into some resentful lower-class kids who took him down a peg, because he's so fucking oblivious and full of himself.

[Ryan Thunder]

Indeed. You can tell from what he's posting here that he really needed to run into some resentful lower-class kids who took him down a peg, because he's so fucking oblivious and full of himself.

Uh, no, these were anything but "lower-class" kids, what with their iPhones and trendy Apple shitboxes. You can't afford that shit unless your rich and/or spoiled.

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself. The only financial advantage I have over many of these students is that I get to live at my parents' house and they don't charge me rent. That's pretty big, I'll admit, but I still end up with near-zero net gain at the end of the year.

[General Zod]

Indeed. You can tell from what he's posting here that he really needed to run into some resentful lower-class kids who took him down a peg, because he's so fucking oblivious and full of himself.

Uh, no, these were anything but "lower-class" kids, what with their iPhones and trendy Apple shitboxes. You can't afford that shit unless your rich and/or spoiled.

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself. The only financial advantage I have over many of these students is that I get to live at my parents' house and they don't charge me rent. That's pretty big, I'll admit, but I still end up with near-zero net gain at the end of the year.

You know. . .you're really not using the best examples here. A PS3 is easily more expensive than the highest end model iPhone with a contract. Apple "shitboxes"? Please. For a few hundred more than most laptops you can buy an entry level Macbook. It doesn't require being rich to own them, just having decent money-management skills. Most universities will also offer subsidies on leased Macs too.

[Mr. Coffee]

Since when is an iPhone a symbol of wealth? I can pick one up for a fraction the cost of my Nokia. Seriously, Ryan, you're being a douchenozzle here. We get it, you're a poor white boy that had to bootstrap himself up or whatever. So am I. But even I can see what Mike's talking about regarding racism here. Remove the entitlement stick from your ass and you'll figure out why.

[Lagmonster]

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself.

I know a wonderful Haitian gentleman who earned what he has, buys his own stuff, etc., etc., but racism still affects him because of gut-level prejudices. When a delegation team went to a minimum-security prison to conduct an audit of their emergency preparedness plan, he went along. All the other team members were allowed to leave the prison when the time came. He was held back for two minutes while they verified his pass was legitimate. It was only a quick check and everybody was polite and quick about it, but the fact remains that they singled out the black guy in a group of white people leaving the prison. Now, YOU wouldn't have been singled out and detained because the authorities had no prejudices that told them to suspect you.

[Ryan Thunder]

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself.

I know a wonderful Haitian gentleman who earned what he has, buys his own stuff, etc., etc., but racism still affects him because of gut-level prejudices. When a delegation team went to a minimum-security prison to conduct an audit of their emergency preparedness plan, he went along. All the other team members were allowed to leave the prison when the time came. He was held back for two minutes while they verified his pass was legitimate. It was only a quick check and everybody was polite and quick about it, but the fact remains that they singled out the black guy in a group of white people leaving the prison. Now, YOU wouldn't have been singled out and detained because the authorities had no prejudices that told them to suspect you.

And that's ridiculous, yes, and I understand why he'd be frustrated by it.

Anyway, my point was that I'm not a spoiled rich white boy born with a silver spoon in my mouth like Mike was assuming, that's all. I got where I am on merit. But these people I was referring to tend to assume that because I'm "white" I must be <insert racist rich "white" man stereotype here>, and then move on from there like I think I'm some kind of white supremacist.

Indeed. You can tell from what he's posting here that he really needed to run into some resentful lower-class kids who took him down a peg, because he's so fucking oblivious and full of himself.

Uh, no, these were anything but "lower-class" kids, what with their iPhones and trendy Apple shitboxes. You can't afford that shit unless your rich and/or spoiled.

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself. The only financial advantage I have over many of these students is that I get to live at my parents' house and they don't charge me rent. That's pretty big, I'll admit, but I still end up with near-zero net gain at the end of the year.

You know. . .you're really not using the best examples here. A PS3 is easily more expensive than the highest end model iPhone with a contract.

I admit it wasn't the smartest purchase I've ever made. I should've bought a 360, if anything at all. But that was the year before I graduated, when minimum wage still felt like alot of money then.

Apple "shitboxes"? Please.

Marginal to no improvement in functionality + shitty UI + a few hundred $ => frivolous luxury.

You could buy a cell phone and pay the bill on it for a few months with that kind of money while getting the same capability if you just bought a different brand of PC.

For a few hundred more than most laptops you can buy an entry level Macbook. It doesn't require being rich to own them, just having decent money-management skills. Most universities will also offer subsidies on leased Macs too.

Really? I have seen a deal around here where they throw in a "free" iPod Touch if you buy one of their laptops. The amusing part is when you realize that they have such an absurd profit margin that they can afford to do this.

[aerius]

The comedy really does write itself.

[ArmorPierce]

Have you ever been in a ghetto? Brand new flashy cars litters the streets. Everyone is walking around with the latest phone model and ipods. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. A lot of these people will spend a lot of money that they don't have that gives the impression that they aren't as poor as they are (ironically making them poorer). I've seen plenty of poor people with laptops and the latest model cell phone.

[Lagmonster]

Have you ever been in a ghetto? Brand new flashy cars litters the streets. Everyone is walking around with the latest phone model and ipods. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. A lot of these people will spend a lot of money that they don't have that gives the impression that they aren't as poor as they are (ironically making them poorer). I've seen plenty of poor people with laptops and the latest model cell phone.

An amusing way to scare the shit out of the middle class is to ask them to imagine what their life would be like if you instantly took away their credit cards, loans, mortgages, bank savings interest accounts, and lines of credit. No borrowing whatsoever, even a handful of cash from mom and dad would be off limits. Suddenly, they're forced to view their life from the position of no car, no house, and their luxuries purchased over a larger period of time as they are forced to save money instead of buying now and paying later.

[Edi]

Ryan, you're still being an oblivious, spoiled moron. You don't even have any idea just how spoiled.

I come from a very well off family. That has made my life significantly easier than that of many people I know because my parents have been generous beyond all reasonable expectation to me, my siblings and even other members of the extended family. Compared to many of the people on this board, I am one of the spoiled, rich white boys. I don't have any illusions about that. I guess I've displayed some obliviousness sometimes, but I try to keep in mind just how fucking lucky I have been.

Thing is, while I am a spoiled rich white boy, my parents weren't. Mom comes from a farm family and had four siblings. Dad's family had nothing but the apartment they got and I'll have to ask about the details of how it came to the family in the first place. Both sides of my family happen to be Karelian refugees, meaning everything they had that they couldn't cart off went to the Russians after the war, so my father actually worked up from near enough point zero to become well off. He was lucky in part, yes, but he got where he did purely on merit and together with my mother they did a damn good job both of being professional people with careers as well as parents (mom stayed at home for well over ten years raising us, then resumed her teaching career).

There have been times when I have used social services while trying to get up to stand on my own two feet. I am doing well on my own now, have been for some years, but it took me far longer to get there than I envisioned back when I was fresh out of the army and just going for a higher education.

You say you have earned your own money and you pay for xyz etc etc. Good for you that you work, but holy fuck how it seems you have absolutely zero understanding of all the resources your parents put into you to get you where you could go out and start earning money on your own. And you still live with them.

It's just fucking amazing how deep you have your head inserted into your arse.

[Themightytom]

Ryan I can kind of identify with you here but I think you're perspective is a little skewed.

I jokingly complain to my hispanic coworkers that i am a victim of prejudice, because I have a hispanic last name but a really weak heritage on that side of the family. At first glance I'm irish, but as soon as i identify my last anme, all of the spanish speaking people in the room assume i speak it. When i disclose taht i don't speak it well, they almost invariably object and want to know why I'm ashamed of my roots.

What roots?? Why do I have to learn spanish, is my English not enough? i don't even like Enchiladas but I'll be damned if someone doesn'tt try to make me one to show me what i missed growing up.

But thats not discrimination, its a nuisance. I remember in HS kids trying to get away with calling me a wetback, and I immediately pointed out half my family has probably been here longer than any of there's and I hadn't at that time even been out of the country. Growing up I probably took the cowards way out, deflecting discrimination rather than challenging it. I could easily dismiss their comments as nonapplicable to me, but what if I COULDN'T because they were "applicable" in that the insults attacked the roots of my identity. At the end of the day I can shrug off unfair treatment because I know that no real consequence will come of it.

That little nuisance is the result of a strong cultural identity developed through adversity. Hispanics stick together because they get shit on when they don't, they get in your face because there was always someone there to put them down. My coworkers are amused because I'm the one hispanic there who doesn't speak the language, literally. thats fine, beause if I went on a rant and demanded that everyone around me speak English and stop acting like being hispanic was so special, I would be acting like an insensitive douchebag, because what is amusing to me has an entirely deeper meaning to them. There's a practical cosnequence between self advocacy and respect for others. I'll let them rib on me a little because at the end of the day I haven't been through half of what they've been through and they have earned respect that I am granted in most cases because of a miiiiinor case of albinism bestowed by my irish side.

The same can be said for poverty. I'm sure most of us have had our brushes but we can't categorize our experiences as equivelant. We may have worked hard and earned what we have but that doesn't autoqualify us to critique the experiences of others. That would be like looking at a 50 yr old laboring along behind you in a race and going "Ha, kicking your ass old man, we started at the same spot, whats wrong?"
On the other hand you can respect the dude when he finishes so far ahead of you that he's sipping an ice tea in a folding chair when you finally make it.

In other news. we're throwing Lucia under the bus now.

Heads up though it loads slow bc theres like a billion ppl trying to watch it at once.



There was a little backhanded comment by her spokes person that "Hey while the rest of you guys are having your beer tomorrow, Lucia has to be at work."

oh snap! We can make it a gender issue too . Race vs Race, Cops versus civillians, men vs women. its the Opression Trifecta

[Ryan Thunder]

Ryan, you're still being an oblivious, spoiled moron. You don't even have any idea just how spoiled. [...]

Well, alright. Sorry, guys.

[Simon_Jester]

An amusing way to scare the shit out of the middle class is to ask them to imagine what their life would be like if you instantly took away their credit cards, loans, mortgages, bank savings interest accounts, and lines of credit. No borrowing whatsoever, even a handful of cash from mom and dad would be off limits. Suddenly, they're forced to view their life from the position of no car, no house, and their luxuries purchased over a larger period of time as they are forced to save money instead of buying now and paying later.

Could we refine that scenario a little? I'm not sure what you mean by "bank savings interest accounts;" isn't that normally one of the things people put money they've saved into? I know a fair chunk of my income over the past two years is in my savings account...

If you're just saying "what if all your possessions disappeared overnight?", that will scare anybody, not just the middle class. If that happens, you're reduced to a random hobo pretty quickly. If you're asking "where would you be without the ability to go into debt?", that's a very different question.

[Kamakazie Sith]

This whole side issue with Whalen is probably the worst thing that's happened out of this whole story. I'm glad the media is paying some attention to what's going on with her, but I'd like them to publically name those individuals that are threatening or harassing her or at the very least share with the rest of the nation the things they're saying so people can see how unreasonable the extremists on both sides can be.

I can't even fathom how someone could interpret the misconception that she reported race in her description as racist in nature unless she were to use racists slang when giving the description. Obviously that's not the case because no description was given beyond their gender.

As for why an interaction between Sgt. Crowley and Whalen I don't see why either would lie about it because it does nothing to change the events after he supposedly spoke with her. It would have still played out the same because Sgt. Crowley would have still investigated the home and discovered two men inside it.

[Themightytom]

Her lawyer is well known for work in women's advocacy groups, my coworker says she's pretty sharp. Which I believe given the deft insertion of gender equality into this issue.

Incidently my coworker also knows professor Gates and decribes him as extremely arrogant.

[Big Phil]

Incidently my coworker also knows professor Gates and decribes him as extremely arrogant.

A (Harvard) professor arrogant? Say it ain't so!

[TheLostVikings]

Look, I earned what I have. I buy my own clothes, I bought my own laptop, I bought my own PS3, controllers, and games, I pay my own cell bills, I bought my own phone, and I pay for my courses and text books with money that I earned myself.

I know a wonderful Haitian gentleman who earned what he has, buys his own stuff, etc., etc., but racism still affects him because of gut-level prejudices. When a delegation team went to a minimum-security prison to conduct an audit of their emergency preparedness plan, he went along. All the other team members were allowed to leave the prison when the time came. He was held back for two minutes while they verified his pass was legitimate. It was only a quick check and everybody was polite and quick about it, but the fact remains that they singled out the black guy in a group of white people leaving the prison. Now, YOU wouldn't have been singled out and detained because the authorities had no prejudices that told them to suspect you.

It's so prevalent you don't even have to be all that dark skinned to trigger that kind of racism. When I was in high school my eczema was pretty bad, bad enough that I had to get hourly UV treatments 2-3 times a week to not look like freddy krueger, and after nearly a year of I was obviously much darker than average.

Cue me and the rest of the family going on a vacation to Greece: As I walked towards the security control I saw them just casually waving everyone by without doing any checks at all, until it was my turn that is. Not only did they stop me and ask me for my passport, the official in charge spent a full 2-3 minutes looking suspiciously at my passport, then at my fact, then back again before letting me pass. (keeping the entire line waiting while he was at it) As I walked along after they let me pass I kept looking back, out of the remaining 200 people passing trough guess how many they stopped? None, which coincidentally also happened to be the number of non whites in the line too. What a coincidence!

[Stofsk]

Are we sharing anecdotes now? If so, my friend is from the Mauritius (well, his mum was, I think he was born here) so he has a darker complexion than the Anglo-celts in my country, so when he was walking through a shopping centre years ago he got stopped and had his backpack searched by a security guard. I was more outraged than he was, and I'm a pasty white boy.

[ArmorPierce]

I've been stopped due to my name but after seeing me passed with no problem at borders. As you can see from my avatar, I'm pretty light. Last time I was going through the train station to get into Newark airport. Their were about 4 army guys there at a table. There was four of us walking - my father and I , we are two guys of muslim descent but my father is very light with blonde hair and green eyes, me with dark hair and brown eyes but fairly light skin - then some Indian Sikh guy wearing a head turban, and then some other white European guy. Guess who out of the group they pulled over to check his bag and items? If what they were going for was discriminating based on religion, they actually missed the two Muslims walking and got the darkie of the other religion.

[Lagmonster]

Are we sharing anecdotes now?

A lot of racism happens anecdotally, and even more probably doesn't get reported. It's a weak, but fair way to demonstrate to Ryan "I don't benefit from racism" Thunder that he does, in fact, benefit - not just from the advantages he can get, but from the harrassment from authorities that he doesn't get.

[Lagmonster]

If you're just saying "what if all your possessions disappeared overnight?", that will scare anybody, not just the middle class. If that happens, you're reduced to a random hobo pretty quickly. If you're asking "where would you be without the ability to go into debt?", that's a very different question.

You're right; I was talking about evaluating your life without your ability to borrow, not stripping you of everything you have indiscriminately. But it's really too much of a thread hijack to pursue here.

[Hillary]

Are we sharing anecdotes now? If so, my friend is from the Mauritius (well, his mum was, I think he was born here) so he has a darker complexion than the Anglo-celts in my country, so when he was walking through a shopping centre years ago he got stopped and had his backpack searched by a security guard. I was more outraged than he was, and I'm a pasty white boy.

Similar story here. My old boss was a 2nd generation West Indian. When on business, he got stopped at Heathrow/Gatwick customs without fail. I've never been stopped by them. I also remember arriving back from a holiday to St Lucia (quite a mixed flight of Brits and West Indians). More customs men than I've ever seen at Heathrow. Guess which colour every single stopped passenger was? They were stopping poor old men with cases tied up with string - not exactly your typical drugs mule.

Growing up white in the UK, it is impossible for me to entirely understand how it feels to be part of an ethnic minority - however, it is pretty fucking clear that they get the shit end of the stick and need to be cut some slack here. I get (unasked for) privileges in this country due to my colour, which isn't my fault in any way - but it's a bit much to ask those who get the reverse side of this not to be pissed off at it.

[Ziggy Stardust]

From the Boston Globe

An officer in the Boston Police Department has been suspended after allegedly writing a racially charged e-mail about Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. to colleagues at the National Guard, a law enforcement official said.

The law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Officer Justin Barrett referred to the black scholar as a “jungle monkey’’ in the letter, written in reaction to news coverage of Gates’s arrest July 16. Barrett was suspended Tuesday, pending a termination hearing.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino condemned the comment and called for the officer’s dismissal.

“I was angry about the incident when the commissioner spoke to me [Tuesday] night,’’ Menino said. “I said, ‘He has no place in this department, and we have to take his badge away.’ That stuff doesn’t belong in our city, and we’re not going to tolerate it.’’

The mayor said he has not seen the e-mail and while the officer is not officially terminated, he might as well be. “He’s gone - g-o-n-e. I don’t care, it’s like cancer, you don’t keep those cancers around.’’

In an interview that WCVB-TV aired last night, Barrett said he used “a poor choice of words.’’

“I did not mean to offend anyone,’’ he said. “The words were being used to characterize behavior, not describe anyone . . . I didn’t mean it in a racist way. I treat everyone with dignity and respect.’’

Barrett and his lawyer said they will fight the charges. “People are making it about race. It is not about race,’’ Barrett said. Gates was arrested by Cambridge police Sergeant James Crowley on charges of disorderly conduct.

Though the charges were dropped, the case became national news after Gates accused Crowley of arresting him because he was black. The two men are set to have a beer with Obama tonight.

Police Commissioner Edward F. Davis stripped Barrett, 36, of his gun and badge Tuesday, said police spokeswoman Elaine Driscoll. Barrett, who has been on the job for two years and has no previous disciplinary record, faces a termination hearing in the next week, she said.

When a supervisor confronted Barrett about the e-mail, he admitted to writing it, Driscoll said.

“[Tuesday] afternoon, Commissioner Davis was made aware that Officer Barrett was the author of correspondence which included racially charged language,’’ she said. “At that time, Commissioner Davis immediately stripped Officer Barrett of his gun and badge, and at this time we will be moving forward with the hearing process.’’

It was unclear last night when the letter was sent. Barrett, who was assigned to District B-3 in Dorchester, will receive legal representation from Boston Police Patrolmen’s Association.

In a letter to union members posted on their website, union officials denounced the statements but asked “that the facts be determined before a rush to judgment is made.

“While the Boston Police Patrolmen’s Association has a duty to assure that the contractual and due process rights of each and every member are protected, we strongly denounce these statements as being offensive and hurtful.’’ The letter is signed by Thomas J. Nee, the union president; Ronald T. MacGillivray, the vice president; John D. Broderick, Jr., treasurer; and Thomas N. Pratt, secretary.

A spokesman for the Massachusetts National Guard, with which Barrett also serves, did not respond to messages left at his office or on his cellphone. WCVB reported that Barrett was relieved of National Guard duty.

This is slightly different from what I heard on the radio this morning, but I can't find a transcript of that. The version I heard was that some columnist for the Boston Globe wrote an editorial defending Gates, and this police officer sent the columnist (who was black) an e-mail in which he described Gates as a "banana-eating jungle monkey." He CCed it to his buddies in both the police force and the National Guard.

In any case, I like how he his defense is that he didn't CALL Gates a jungle monkey, he just said he ACTED like one. See? Not racist, guys, I swear! What a miserable piece of shit.

The guy on the radio also mentioned that Sergeant Crowley was responsible for the Boston Police Department's training in some way? I can't find anything to substantiate that, though, and I hadn't heard it before.