Early SW Atlas info

[VT-16]

Someone got advanced copies of the SW Atlas at CC and started posting various trivia. They scanned some of the character images from the book, including a couple of never-before-seen ones.

Here's a roundup of sections in the book (incomplete, the person stopped at the early NR era):

There are pages for many planets, and a species section, as well as history lessons by era.

Maps in the Atlas:
The Galaxy (generic dateless)
The Core
The Colonies
Galactic Population c. 25 ABY
The Inner Rim
The Expansion Region
The Mid Rim
Hutt Space
The Outer Rim
Client States and Miscellaneous Regions
The Rakata Empire c. 30,000-25,200 BBY
The Conquests of Xim the Despot 25,127-25,096 BBY
The Pre-Republic Galaxy c. 25,100 BBY
Origins of the Jedi (and other mystic traditions of the young Republic) c. 25,000-22,000 BBY
Galactic Explorations (basically a pre-Naboo timeline of such, most colorful map in the Atlas)
The Sith Empire c. 5,000 BBY
The Great Hyperspace War c. 5,000 BBY
The Great Sith War 4,000-3,996 BBY
The Jedi Civil War 3,959-3.956 BBY
The Mandalorian Wars 3,976-3,960 BBY
The Fall of the Republic 1,004-1,000 BBY
The Hapes Cluster
The Hydian Way c. 3,693 BBY
Sidious's Preparations 52-32 BBY
The Phantom Menace
The Fate of Outbound Flight
Tatooine, Geonosis and the Arkanis Sector
Attack of the Clones
The Clone Wars (2 maps)
Kashyyyk and Neighbors
Revenge of the Sith
Imperial Atrocities
The Adventures of Han Solo 14-0 BBY
The Centrality
The Corporate Sector
Missions Merciful and Otherwise 2-0 BBY
The Ultimate Power in the Universe 22 BBY-12 ABY
A New Hope
Yavin and the Gordian Reach
Famous Shadowports
Flashpoints in the Galactic Civil War 2 BBY-4 ABY
The Road to Kessel
The Spice Trade
Hoth and the Greater Javin
The Empire Strikes Back
Endor and the Moddell Sector
Inner Zuma Region (Side View)
Return of the Jedi
The Ssi-Ruuk and Nagai Invasions
The New Republic Advances 4-6 ABY
The Road to Coruscant 6-7 ABY
The Hunt for Zsinj 7-8 ABY
Campaigns After Zsinj's Death 8 ABY
Thrawn's Campaigns 9 ABY

[VT-16]

Rakata Empire map and info.
Jedi and Sith expansion map and info.
Hapes Cluster map and info.
Republic expansion map and info.

[NecronLord]

I am ambivalent. On the one hand those look cool. On the other, I've never liked the notion of 'unknown regions' in the GFFA that much.

[VT-16]

I like the explanation for the Rakatan Empire being so dispersed, yet only having a few hundred planets in total. Basically, their Force-based hyperdrive homed in on Force-strong locations, bypassing enormous amounts of systems in the process. Also, there appears to be multiple Celestial constructs in the galaxy, with the Corellian system, the Kathol Rift, the Cron Cluster, the Hapes Cluster, the Maw, and Vultar presumed to all originate with this civilization.

[Lord Sander]

I'm not surprised they included got a huge Unknown Regions, but I really, really wish they hadn't.

[Old Plympto]

I'm going to do the same to the atlas as I did to the other maps. I'll consider The Unknown Regions the immediate area surrounding the galaxy. Cut the "Unknown Region"-marked slice out of the galactic disk. Bring together the freshly cut sides together. Presto! A full galaxy. (In my mind, of course. No need to physically cut a perfectly good book.)

I did this before with the NJO novel map. Then spin in around by a certain angle which currently escapes me. Then, it nearly fits the circular map in the Locations book planet by planet.

Anyway, according to Wookieepedia they'll have a section on satellite galaxies, so yay.

[Connor MacLeod]

Even disregarding the AOTC map (Where'd all that empty space disappear then?) it's pretty funny considering that the AOTC: novelization specifies that over 80% of the galaxy was known (to the Jedi Order at least at that point in time) and IIRC novels in the NJO specified it as much smaller (fewer than a million systems or something). Hell if yuo had a massive plot of space totally unexplored like that it would be ludicrously easy for someone (with automated DS style construction) to fabricate some massive army o doom and try to annihilate the galaxy (again)

[Lord Sander]

I got a reply from Jason Fry, co-author of the Atlas, after I sent an email asking about the decision to include the Unknown Regions:

Hey, thanks for your note. Sorry to hear of your disappointment. I won't argue with your logic, but Dan and I were bound by a large amount of Expanded Universe information, including numerous previous maps, that does indeed show unexplored territory within the galactic disk. Even if we had wanted to, we would not have been allowed to discard all this established information.

As for Jocasta, I think you're taking her a bit literally. She is emblematic of the arrogance and close-mindedness of the Jedi: Her blithe assurance that Kamino cannot exist is rapidly disproved by a galactic short-order cook.

At any rate, I'd hope you'd find a lot to like in the Atlas. But if our depiction of the Unknown Regions is enough to keep you away, that's understandable. Either way, appreciate the note.

Best,

Jason

[Ghost Rider]

So wait, because when Yoda goes "It's missing...because it was taken OUT." must've flown over his fucking dumb ass. Jocusta was arrogant because, she was likely correct and Obi Wan didn't think of the obvious notion that it was erased within the Jedi's records. Given the time and powers said galaxy can muster, the thought of unknown shit being large as the EU makes it, is another problem of the writers in the EU in context of what galactic power means.

[VT-16]

Looking at the map, it's not that big. If most of it is just Chiss stuff and those raptor-thingies, we're not missing out on much. It looks like they squeezed it out as much as they could without "violating" canon, though, it's pretty funny.

[VT-16]

An article up describing the creation of several maps (focus on Hutt Space) and inventing new stuff along the way. My copy is in transit as of yesterday.

[Balrog]

Was able to read a good chunk of the Atlas today, lot of information and it was pretty well written and organized. Something that stood out was that the Empire's size went up; it's now IIRC 1.75 million member worlds and over 69 million non-member worlds. One of the maps also shows galactic population density, average size of a Core world's population hovers between tens to hundreds of billions, with Coruscant and maybe one or two other planets above a trillion. Unknown Regions still stand out and take up like a third of the galaxy, but the excuse seems to be primarily that there's some sort of permeable hyperspace barrier splitting the galaxy roughly half (one of the theories is that it was caused by the Rakata fighting the Celestials or something), as well as colonization being sporadic with no central planning. Sander's reply seems to show this was not something they were too happy about but had to comply with anyway, so I'm more forgiving about it.

[VT-16]

Plus, it seems to have shrunk since the other maps and from what we know, doesn't contain too much of interest. It could be it was relatively uninteresting for colonization, yet visited and exploited by Republic mining machines. Also, with the inclusion of seven satellite galaxies, most of which are also unexplored by anything other than probe droids, we have even more space for the galactic population to move out into.

[Publius]

Mr Fry's assertion then is that Mme Jocasta is both monumentally incompetent and offensively stupid. The equivalent scenario would be to deny the existence of Bangkok because it does not appear in the Library of Congress.

[VT-16]

Mr Fry's assertion then is that Mme Jocasta is both monumentally incompetent and offensively stupid. The equivalent scenario would be to deny the existence of Bangkok because it does not appear in the Library of Congress.

Well, that is kinda the point of the scene itself.
They keep mentioning things they didn't want and had to include by mandate, so I can understand their frustration and excuses. Let's not forget the "scanner globe/auxiliary shield generator" inclusion in ITW:OT. These things happen.

[Publius]

Mr Fry's assertion then is that Mme Jocasta is both monumentally incompetent and offensively stupid. The equivalent scenario would be to deny the existence of Bangkok because it does not appear in the Library of Congress.

Well, that is kinda the point of the scene itself.
They keep mentioning things they didn't want and had to include by mandate, so I can understand their frustration and excuses. Let's not forget the "scanner globe/auxiliary shield generator" inclusion in ITW:OT. These things happen.

The point of the scene is to suggest that the Jedi Order's records are extraordinarily extensive, and that it would be easy for one to fall into the trap of believing them to be infallible. She is meant to be arrogant, not grotesquely stupid. The EU asserts that large swathes of space in relative proximity to the Core itself are unexplored. This is equivalent to Thomas Jefferson claiming that absolutely nothing exists in North America which was not documented in Congressional records as of 1800. It is patent imbecility, not exaggerated pride.

[VT-16]

I think you're misunderstanding his reply, as well as exaggerating the "Unknown" part of the Unknown Regions. For a book that says some satellite galaxies were largely "unknown" due to only being visited by probe droids, it seems very progressive in thought of how the galactic society has evolved in the Republic era. Basically, the "Unknown Regions" might simply be named as such due to a lack of anything of interest beyond the basest of automated mining opportunities. Thanks to AOTC:ICS we already know these areas can't be completely unknown, given the Mining Guild's operations throughout the spiral arms of the galaxy, which I assume means all the galaxy's arms.

Plus, the Jedi have their lightsabre crystal repository on Ilum, a UR planet. Would be hard to rely on it, if the region was truly unknown in the first place. Perhaps a more comprehensive name would be "Mining Regions", since there's been nothing else of interest there.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Basically, the "Unknown Regions" might simply be named as such due to a lack of anything of interest beyond the basest of automated mining opportunities.

Why would any astrographic distribution, be it resources, habitable planets, navigable territory, etc. be distributed dramatically asymmetrically about a morphologically typical spiral galaxy?

[VT-16]

A wizard The Celestials did it. Apparantly, during a conflict with the Rakata, something happened to disturb the hyperspace navigation of that area, relative to the rest of the galaxy. That's what I've gathered is the reason for the navigation difficulties, according to the book. It's retarded, but better than nothing. And having checked most known planets of the region on Wookieepedia, most of them are either more or less known to the rest of the galaxy (in a backwater sort of way) or belong to the Chiss (which themselves have had a loose connection to the Republic for millennia, but marked by their isolationism). So this is basically unknown in name only, probably dating from early Republic times.

[Darth Hoth]

Something that stood out was that the Empire's size went up; it's now IIRC 1.75 million member worlds and over 69 million non-member worlds.

That is down rather considerably from earlier high-end WEG estimates (some of which spoke of the Empire controlling "billions" of worlds, years before AotC: ICS); if I recall correctly they even dumped the "51 millions" number from the original rulebook in the second edition and replaced it with something like "countless millions".

Of course, scratching the one-million number screws with Tarkin's dialogue in the film novelisation; rationalising with one million full member worlds and additional unenfranchised holdings made sense.

One of the maps also shows galactic population density, average size of a Core world's population hovers between tens to hundreds of billions, with Coruscant and maybe one or two other planets above a trillion.

Is that a step up or down? On the one hand, this shows higher populations than is usually implied by most media. On the other, it now becomes that much more difficult to justify higher numbers, or to argue that Coruscant is not one giant anomaly.

Unknown Regions still stand out and take up like a third of the galaxy, but the excuse seems to be primarily that there's some sort of permeable hyperspace barrier splitting the galaxy roughly half (one of the theories is that it was caused by the Rakata fighting the Celestials or something), as well as colonization being sporadic with no central planning. Sander's reply seems to show this was not something they were too happy about but had to comply with anyway, so I'm more forgiving about it.

Retarded bullshit and writer's fiat, of course, but I suppose they were forced to keep it, so it would not really be their fault.

[Big Orange]

It would've been better if the Unknown Regions were "unknown" due to the dense patchwork of alien empires and nations (the Ssi-ruuk, Chiss, Mon Calamari, etc) occupying that blanked out quarter of the Galaxy that independently developed far from the early Republic and mostly barred the Republic/Empire from their vast territories. That would make the most sense.

[Balrog]

That is down rather considerably from earlier high-end WEG estimates (some of which spoke of the Empire controlling "billions" of worlds, years before AotC: ICS); if I recall correctly they even dumped the "51 millions" number from the original rulebook in the second edition and replaced it with something like "countless millions".

Of course, scratching the one-million number screws with Tarkin's dialogue in the film novelisation; rationalising with one million full member worlds and additional unenfranchised holdings made sense.

Really? I've only ever heard that it was 1 million member + 50 dependencies, also based on old RPG books. Do you know which book mentions billions of worlds?

Is that a step up or down? On the one hand, this shows higher populations than is usually implied by most media. On the other, it now becomes that much more difficult to justify higher numbers, or to argue that Coruscant is not one giant anomaly.

However, the population density only gives the average population of a planet within the colored area; you can still have trillion plus populations outside of Coruscant, but since they're lumped in with populations much lower that drags the average down. And the hundreds of billion coloring covered almost all of the Core and Colonies, which includes a hell of a lot of planets.

[Darth Hoth]

Really? I've only ever heard that it was 1 million member + 50 dependencies, also based on old RPG books. Do you know which book mentions billions of worlds?

At least two imply it, of which one is rather unambiguous:

Before you can adventure in the galaxy, you better know something about it. First off, it's Big - the Empire rules billions of worlds.

The civilization of the Galactic Empire spans billions of stars, from Coruscant - the heart of the Empire - to remote Outer Rim worlds like Tatooine and Gall.

(Thanks to Connor for the quotes.)

However, the population density only gives the average population of a planet within the colored area; you can still have trillion plus populations outside of Coruscant, but since they're lumped in with populations much lower that drags the average down. And the hundreds of billion coloring covered almost all of the Core and Colonies, which includes a hell of a lot of planets.

Ah, that might be another matter (depending on how you count the planets/habitats and whatnots). I will wait and see what it works out to in the end, then. Depending on how they list it, it might square pretty well with the old WEG "quadrillions" of citizens, which is not too bad.

[Kaiser Caesar]

Perhaps the "billions of worlds" include uninhabited worlds which the Empire claims but has not yet colonized?

[Captain Seafort]

I think it's more likely that it refers to those systems that aren't properly colonised (i.e. have a self-sustaining civilian population), but have mining outposts or similar.