The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

[Stuart]

I forget, can the angels send mental messages to each other? If so, then can't Uriel just call another angel for help? Or would that be too difficult in his condition? I figure he wouldn't care much about it being disgraceful at this point.

They can transmit and receive messages but they can't "read minds". You can take for granted Uriel is screaming for help. What happens then is coming shortly.

[ray245]

Whoa, look at this! Looks like this fic is getting a lot of fans! Better have it in print soon, this group will snap it up quickly!

Wow, that's one of the spammiest thread I've seen. In the end, they ended up talking about is about the people(and Mike's wife) on this site as opposed to the actual story. It's seems funny that they spend half their time comparing which forum is better, with nothing more than a bunch of one-liners.

[Slacker]

Well, it's the Something Awful forums...reading the first page, they're actually more on-topic than usual with these sorts of things.

[Shroom Man 777]

Let us heckle at and talk shit about some middle-aged dude, who work for the military doing serious business but also indulge in writing original fiction stories based on amusing premises for his own personal amusement and the amusement of others, in the internets for our own lulz! Hurrrr! Stuart is such a motherlover (lol word filters) for writing this poo poo (lol word filters) for his own fun! Haha! Look! A middle-aged man having his own funs writing it the internet! Haha, midle aged man with a corvette car! Haha! Look at him pose for a picture! Haha, he takes everything leik SRS BSNSS! LULZ!

Haha look at them have fun at their STOOPID STORIES whiel we have a grand old time heckling and belitteling them from afar because they are so STOOPIDS and we are so clevers! Tee-hee!

Look at me post off-tangent Q&A sessions about his stories on demons and angels waging war on Earth by going off the tangent and talking about caliphates and nazzies from some other un-related written work! Lol EVERYONE on that forum wants to blow up them brown-people mohammedians! Whoopsie I made a poopsie! Hee-heee!

Grrr! He has historical inaccuracies when portraying his Brown People Empire and has yet finalized details on it! What a poopoo! GRRR!



Well, each to his own. *shrug*

[NoXion]

I believe this is my first time ever to comment on this story - I thoroughly enjoyed Armageddon???? and I am well chuffed to see it continue with Pantheocide.

Whoa, look at this! Looks like this fic is getting a lot of fans! Better have it in print soon, this group will snap it up quickly!

What kind of derelict actually pays to be member of such a forum?

Also, maybe it's just me, but the story doesn't strike me as retarded right-wing military wank as some in that thread seem to be insinuating. Or perhaps that's just my own fascination with such things clouding my judgement.

[Edward Yee]

The thread on veterans should tell you all you need to know about that forum. (Which is a shame, since SomethingAwful also hosts the much more sane, even genuinely entertaining Let's Play forum.)

Then again, my membership is free. For certain archived threads (i.e. the Victoriana "Let's make Greece a world empire!") I have the Internet Wayback Machine if I care enough.

[phongn]

SA's forums are rather varied, to put it mildly.

[Shroom Man 777]

That veterans thread is really amazing. A real class-act crowd to hang around with and talk about Stuart with.

[Stuart]

Well, each to his own. *shrug*

I agree; if that's the environment they like, then they're welcome to it. To be honest, I don't think that cross-board sniping has ever achieved very much. They have the sort of community they like and I guess they're happy with it. We have the sort of community we like and we're happy with ours. There really isn't any need to go beyond that. In some ways their antics are amusing more than anything else; it's very obvious they are mostly young children.

Also, as far as books are concerned, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Norseman once started up a TBOsucks webpage dedicated to trashing the book and its sequels (the amusing bit being that none - repeat none - of his complaints could actually be supported but there is one dreadful crashing technical error in The Big One that neither he nor anybody else has spotted). He took the site down when people from HPCA found it (I guess he didn;t want his comments disputed) but during the time it was around, there was a small but significant spike in sales.

[Surlethe]

there is one dreadful crashing technical error in The Big One that neither he nor anybody else has spotted

Do you expect anybody to spot it, ever? Or will we all go to our graves wondering what it is?

[Stuart]

Do you expect anybody to spot it, ever? Or will we all go to our graves wondering what it is?

Nobody has to date but if somebody does get it I'll confirm its The One. I will give one hint; its nothing to do with the aircraft or the nuclear devices they carry

[Vehrec]

To be honest, they do home in on several things that just got my goat, but I held my tongue about. Bootstraping grandmas, Guitmo, waterboarding, MacNamera hate, fetus-souls and the miracle of fuel from hell all were things that made me go 'wait, what?' As they say, there are a lot of things in this story that are 'Wow Cool.' when you first think about them, but have ramifications we aren't exploring here. In no particular order, if we start burning diesel and gas from Hell, won't that be worse than regular global warming by virtue of altering the total amount of Carbon on Earth? Aren't the elderly likely to be taken for a huge financial trip when it comes to leaving their money to themselves, and aren't they the most likely people to have predatory lenders come after them? Why waterboarding instead of regular drowning, hot pokers, crushed fingers, iron maidens or committee meetings? If Fetus' have souls, why not dogs, cats, dolphins, and chimpanzees? Why plan on transporting thousands of dangerous prisioners to such a marginal facility?

[Samuel]

Funny- I thought Norseman was more accurate on the Caliphate being unrealistic.

In no particular order, if we start burning diesel and gas from Hell, won't that be worse than regular global warming by virtue of altering the total amount of Carbon on Earth?

Yes. However humanity is at a point where the leadership can ignore environmental concerns due to the extreme costs of losing. Plus we have an out to deal with the temperature problems.

Aren't the elderly likely to be taken for a huge financial trip when it comes to leaving their money to themselves, and aren't they the most likely people to have predatory lenders come after them?

Yep- notice that the grandma is now working in a factory? Stuart has presumably left social situations vague because there is going to be a ton of changes.

Why waterboarding instead of regular drowning, hot pokers, crushed fingers, iron maidens or committee meetings?

Cheaper and easier. It seems so normal in comparison... the sort of thing that the people who think of themselves as the good guys would use.

If Fetus' have souls, why not dogs, cats, dolphins, and chimpanzees?

Because it is based on DNA, not intelligence.

Why plan on transporting thousands of dangerous prisioners to such a marginal facility?

I think they were joking. The most likely location would be in the middle of Saudi Arabia- you can escape, but than the desert kills you!

[Stuart]

In no particular order, if we start burning diesel and gas from Hell, won't that be worse than regular global warming by virtue of altering the total amount of Carbon on Earth?

Arguably yes. However, that's not an issue that affects the present story, it'll be addressed in the third book that concerns the aftermath of the war and the social/cultural/impacts of a new world order where Heaven and Hell are under human control.

Aren't the elderly likely to be taken for a huge financial trip when it comes to leaving their money to themselves, and aren't they the most likely people to have predatory lenders come after them?

Possibly, in fact almost certainly. That brings us to the issue of law enforcement and so on in Heaven and Hell. Again, subjects to be addressed in the third book.

Why waterboarding instead of regular drowning, hot pokers, crushed fingers, iron maidens or committee meetings?

Because I was quietly making the point that waterboarding is on an ethical par with regular drowning, hot pokers, crushed fingers, iron maidens, stretching people on the rack and making them listen to Barry Obama's speeches. Torture is torture, whether it's in Heaven or on Earth.

If Fetus' have souls, why not dogs, cats, dolphins, and chimpanzees?

We haven't found out they don't yet. However, on the subject of foetuses, the issue was raised, given the phenomenom we are seeing, what would happen to foetuses that arrive in Hell apparently doomed to an eternal foetushood (and, by extension, to young babies). To the daemons they were of no practical use so they destroyed (ate) them. We don't think that way so what do we do? And how does the post-death survival of foetuses affect the abortion issue? These are interesting and challenging intellectual questions that go way beyond a knee-jerk response

Why plan on transporting thousands of dangerous prisioners to such a marginal facility?

Dumb plan wasn't it. But, look at who came up with it. The point is that in any realistic story (realism here being used to describe decisions etc), people make mistakes, come up with dumb ideas and sometimes those dumb ideas get to be enacted. Not everybody is perfect, not all decisions are sensible, logical or even sane. The Gitmo idea was a knee-jerk reaction. "Gee, where going to have a lot of prisoners coming in soon, what do we do with them? I know, send them to Gitmo. It's already there and secure." And nobody notices the hands waving at the back of the room and the calls of "You know, that's a really bad idea." You'll notice the Gitmo idea never surfaced again and the actual detention camp was first in Iraq and then moved to Hell.

[Stuart]

Funny- I thought Norseman was more accurate on the Caliphate being unrealistic.

I fear not. The TBO Caliphate was based exactly on the transnational Caliphate that's envisaged by the Taliban and Al Quaeda. It's structure, policies, attitudes etc are exactly as described in Taliban and Al Quaeda documentation captured in Afghanistan. The internal policies of the TBO Caliphate are exactly as described - and practiced - by the Taliban in Afghanistan and in areas where Al Queada linked groups hold power. Depriving women of education and condemning them to perpetual illiteracy, forcing women to remain inside as brood mares, destroying all mention of vast swatches of science because they contradict the koran, destroying historical relics because they pre-date Islam, the death-cult worship, argument by quotation from the Koran instead of logic, all are exactly as documented in our reality. For example,

*** in Afghanistan and Pakistan alone over the last two years over a thousand schools have been destroyed by Islamic terrorists, 80 percent of which provided education to girls and young women

*** in Afghanistan, Taliban terrorists have started a campaign of throwing acid at young girls attempting to go to school

*** in Southern Thailand, Islamic terrorists specialize in atatcking and murdering school teachers, some of whom have been burned alive, others killed by being drenched in boiling water

*** in Pakistan, fundamentalist religious leaders routinely make radio broadcasts inciting people to throw acid at women who do not wear burkas or who go in public without male escorts.

*** in Afghanistan, the Taliban blew up the Buddha statues at Bamiyan - an exact parallel to the TBO destruction of the Sphinx in Egypt

*** in Afghanistan, the development of biological weapons by the Taliban was documented.

In short, the Caliphate in TBO is exactly how the Taliban and al Quaeda envisaged the ideal society and is exactly the kind of society that al Queda and the taliban try to create whenever they get the chance. What the TBO novels do is look at that society and ask how would it function and how could it be made to work. The answer is, of course, that it can't, that the whole basic concept is untenable. That's what the ultimate message of the TBO series is, that such a society would inevitably be doomed by its own internal contradictions. One could also argue that the same basic lesson comes out of Armageddon; that a society that is based on fear, terror and oppression is fundamentally unstable and is likely to shatter when kicked hard.

[Shroom Man 777]

And sometimes, some things in this story ARE tongue-in-cheek and in jest? Succubus-shotgunning Bill Clinton, for example. Come on, this isn't some 100% SRS BSNSS story. Succubus Show hosts! I think the Pantheocide books are, well, done in good, if albeit bizzare and violent, fun.

Not everything has to make sense, anyway. Come on, Yahweh giving his kaiju pets cute names! The whole premise is absurd, based on Biblical events coming to real-life, but so what? I happen to like it a lot. It's by no means perfect, but I enjoy reading it and have been reading the stories for a while. That's what's important.

[Darth Wong]

I don't see any point in concerning oneself with what the people on SomethingAwful are saying. I looked through the first few pages of that link and it's mostly spammy teen babble and ultra-quick knee-jerk reactions as far as I can tell.

[Stuart]

And sometimes, some things in this story ARE tongue-in-cheek and in jest? Succubus-shotgunning Bill Clinton, for example. Come on, this isn't some 100% SRS BSNSS story. Succubus Show hosts! I think the Pantheocide books are, well, done in good, if albeit bizzare and violent, fun. Not everything has to make sense, anyway. Come on, Yahweh giving his kaiju pets cute names! The whole premise is absurd, based on Biblical events coming to real-life, but so what? I happen to like it a lot. It's by no means perfect, but I enjoy reading it and have been reading the stories for a while. That's what's important.

Oh yes, my tongue was - and remains - firmly in my cheek when writing both books. As you say, the primary objective is to have some fun, gore a few sacred cows and provide entertainment. If I can wrap some serious questions up in the text so they don't interfere with the fun, so much the better. Hence the use of waterboarding in Heaven (by the way, waterboarding appears much more effective than just dunking somebody, why I don't know).

[Shroom Man 777]

Funny- I thought Norseman was more accurate on the Caliphate being unrealistic.

I fear not. The TBO Caliphate was based exactly on the transnational Caliphate that's envisaged by the Taliban and Al Quaeda. It's structure, policies, attitudes etc are exactly as described in Taliban and Al Quaeda documentation captured in Afghanistan. The internal policies of the TBO Caliphate are exactly as described - and practiced - by the Taliban in Afghanistan and in areas where Al Queada linked groups hold power. Depriving women of education and condemning them to perpetual illiteracy, forcing women to remain inside as brood mares, destroying all mention of vast swatches of science because they contradict the koran, destroying historical relics because they pre-date Islam, the death-cult worship, argument by quotation from the Koran instead of logic, all are exactly as documented in our reality.

It's just that some are arguing that the Caliphate, as it is (a global Muslim state encompassing all Muslim nations, regardless of sect or specific creed) is impossible to create despite what some fanatics in the Taliban and AQ believe, practice or think.

That it's about as possible as some far-out randome altarnate realty wherein all the anglophone and Western dominantly-Christian nations have united into some kind of pan-Christian multi-national empire, heedless of specific Christian sect or denomination, that espouses a Medieval or super-fundy view of reality (that in-real-life is shared by only the most virulently extreme of real-life Christians).

Those of us who are familiar with Western civilization know that the latter is very much impossible. Those familiar with Mohammedian stuff are also pointing the same thing for the former.

Though that's no reason for anyone to talk shit about you in other forums. Because, frankly, that's just bizzaro and creepy. Very bizzaro and creepy.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh yes, my tongue was - and remains - firmly in my cheek when writing both books. As you say, the primary objective is to have some fun, gore a few sacred cows and provide entertainment. If I can wrap some serious questions up in the text so they don't interfere with the fun, so much the better.

I wonder why these trendy and hip internetubulewebbers who are so snarky apparently can't see that a whole lot of the humor in Pantheocide they deride is, well, intentional humor. Maybe their vision is being obscured by the bodily emissions of their own circlejerk.

Hence the use of waterboarding in Heaven (by the way, waterboarding appears much more effective than just dunking somebody, why I don't know).

Perhaps dunking the head wholesale still allows the tortured individual to just hold his breath. I mean, just like when you're diving. You can just close your eyes and hold your breath until your lungs catch fire and you run out of air, but at least you can willingly resist.

Waterboarding, because of the angles (you're lying back at a particular angle, your face is all exposed, your mouth is open or something...) however does not allow the same thing. You can't "actively resist" being drowned and are more helpless when the water is directly poured into your airway?

When you're being dunked, it's like you're diving into water. While waterboarding is more direct and the water is directly forced into your airway, making it a REAL simulation of drowning. Whereas dunking is more like diving.

[Darth Wong]

<snip>

Though that's no reason for anyone to talk shit about you in other forums. Because, frankly, that's just bizzaro and creepy. Very bizzaro and creepy.

It's not "bizarro and creepy" so much as it's just intellectually lazy. People like to make knee-jerk judgments about other people based on minimal information. Mind you, we are all at risk of doing this occasionally, because laziness is a nigh-universal human trait. But some people do it more eagerly and unapologetically than others, and many of the people posting in that thread seem to suffer from that problem.

I did read far enough into that thread to see people trying to decide whether I'm a hard-line right-wing social conformist misogynist or a hard-line left-wing liberal social deviant. That was rather amusing, and a good example of what I'm describing.

[Stuart]

It's just that some are arguing that the Caliphate, as it is (a global Muslim state encompassing all Muslim nations, regardless of sect or specific creed) is impossible to create despite what some fanatics in the Taliban and AQ believe, practice or think.

Well, the TBO Caliphate didn't include all Moslems for starters, those in Indonesia, Pakistan, the Phillippines, Malaya etc were excluded. The TBO Caliphate was basically the Arabic-Moslem world and it was shown to be radically at odds with the South East Asian Moslem community. However, the 'impossible to create' argument is begging the question. There's no doubt at all that what is described is exactly what the taliban and al Quaeda were aiming at and they have a substantial level of support. So, what would happen if they got their way? How would they create a state that worked? My solution to that was that a 'unitary state' existed only in outward appearance. That it was an extremely loose federation with only very limited internal cohesion. I took as a model the Gulf Cooperation Council whose organizational structure is that a given resolution is only binding on those who vote for it. I also suggested that even that tiny level of cohesion is unsupportable and eventually the group would bring destruction down upon itself from its own internal differences.

Though that's no reason for anyone to talk shit about you in other forums. Because, frankly, that's just bizzaro and creepy. Very bizzaro and creepy.

Well, everybody is entitled to their opinions even if they are without any real substance. I do greatly appreciate the level of support from here though.

[Darth Wong]

It's also worth pointing out that everyone always knew there was going to be a large subset of the population which absolutely hated the entire treatment of the subject matter, for various personal reasons. That's what happens when anyone writes any story involving a subject where people have hardened preconceptions.

[fgalkin]

Stuart, I hate it that my only contribution to the thread seems to be a defence of Veg, but he is right in that case. The Caliphate is as about as realistic as the Thousand Year Reich. Like the Caliphate, it had a large amount of documentation, and a significant level of support. And yet, it was a pipe dream. You even admit as much in having it eventually disintegrate, whereas we are saying that it would never even be created, since the member states would never come to an agreement about that.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[CaptainChewbacca]

As I recall with TBO, a lot of the 'funniest' stuff, the shout-outs to people or bashing of real-world people and events, got edited out. I would assume a lot of that will happen to Armageddon as well.