Federation superweapons?

[Ender]

Actually, it's not that much more expensive to produce a sun crusher; it's the torpedos they fire that are quite expensive.

If i'n not mistaken the Sun crusher project costed has much as the Death Star.
And it isn't just the torpedos it is also the armor.

Where was that ever stated? Given that the Maw station was totally isolated, I can't see it getting the materials and man power that went into the DS, which is what made it cost so much.

[Ben Ingram]

there is no "proof", because the Maw installation was destroyed, along with the plans for the Sun Crusher, and Qui Xux's memory erased, so there is no definative answer; but just looking at the Empires economic ability, I'd have to say they could build at least another half dozen crushers; the torpedoes are another matter, as the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessles, an official source, states that one torpedoe costs nearly as much as the Death Stars superlaser, but I still see them as being able to build more than a dozen SC's.

[Sothis]

A. I couldn't care less about being in the "in" crowd or not, I have never liked trek.... ever, and if I ever saw a Trek-based site, they'd ban me for being a troll.
B. The Empire is fully capable of fielding dozens of Sun Crushers, the only reason they didn't was because the prototype was still being built by the time Palpy died.
C. And you are a Trekkie. And a troll.
D. So I take it a Trekkie speaks for the majority of members of this site?

A: so you're saying you'd troll on purely Trek-based sites like the offical site? Why?
B: Don't know anything about this, so I'll keep out of it.
C: Why is Alyeska a troll because he's a Trekkie?
D: You've had a number of Warsies complain about your frequent posting of already dealt with topics. When your allies and enemies tell you the same thing, you should listen.

A. no, I'd troll on sites saying that Star Trek would destroy Star Wars.
C. He's a troll for basing his arguements against me, not for being a Trekkie {although that's nearly as bad; I have no problem agains trekkers, but Trekkies annoy the hell outta me}
D. And I've apologized, but he says he represents the majority of the members of this site.

I didn't come here looking for an arguement, he started it. I have nothing against him, but he needs to stop attacking ME as the basis for his arguements. I dont mind being flammed occasionaly, but sixty percent of his arguement is against ME. It is style over substance, if you look at it from my angle.[/quote]

A: ok... you'd say Star Trek would destroy Star Wars, on pro-Trek sites? Or do you have Trek and Wars switched around?
C: Well, from what I've read, he's also raised points about the Suncrusher and it's cost and torpedo count. And 'Trekkie' can mean a lot of things in the Star Trek context. I consider myself to be a Trekkie, in tha I am a fan of the show and films, and watch them. I have books, games, etc. There's nothing bad in that.
D: Well, on this, I don't honestly know, though looking at recent posts, a lot of people, Trekkie and Warsie alike, think you should tone things down a bit.

[Ben Ingram]

A: so you're saying you'd troll on purely Trek-based sites like the offical site? Why?
B: Don't know anything about this, so I'll keep out of it.
C: Why is Alyeska a troll because he's a Trekkie?
D: You've had a number of Warsies complain about your frequent posting of already dealt with topics. When your allies and enemies tell you the same thing, you should listen.

A. no, I'd troll on sites saying that Star Trek would destroy Star Wars.
C. He's a troll for basing his arguements against me, not for being a Trekkie {although that's nearly as bad; I have no problem agains trekkers, but Trekkies annoy the hell outta me}
D. And I've apologized, but he says he represents the majority of the members of this site.

I didn't come here looking for an arguement, he started it. I have nothing against him, but he needs to stop attacking ME as the basis for his arguements. I dont mind being flammed occasionaly, but sixty percent of his arguement is against ME. It is style over substance, if you look at it from my angle.

A: ok... you'd say Star Trek would destroy Star Wars, on pro-Trek sites? Or do you have Trek and Wars switched around?
C: Well, from what I've read, he's also raised points about the Suncrusher and it's cost and torpedo count. And 'Trekkie' can mean a lot of things in the Star Trek context. I consider myself to be a Trekkie, in tha I am a fan of the show and films, and watch them. I have books, games, etc. There's nothing bad in that.
D: Well, on this, I don't honestly know, though looking at recent posts, a lot of people, Trekkie and Warsie alike, think you should tone things down a bit.[/quote]

A. No, I said I'd troll on pro-Trek sites, not support them.
C. And hes also bashed me much more than I've bashed him.
C. And I apologized, but I have had alot of original posts, as well, like my Q post.[/i]

[Darth Phoenix]

Actually, it's not that much more expensive to produce a sun crusher; it's the torpedos they fire that are quite expensive.

If i'n not mistaken the Sun crusher project costed has much as the Death Star.
And it isn't just the torpedos it is also the armor.

Where was that ever stated? Given that the Maw station was totally isolated, I can't see it getting the materials and man power that went into the DS, which is what made it cost so much.

It cost so much because it was a prototype, further constructions would be cheaper.
But the fact remains that it did cost much.

[Darth Servo]

First, the Genesis is not lost. There is plenty of information to support this. The station that created it survived.

But all data was erased from the computers there so Kahn wouldn't get it.

The creator survived.

Carol Marcus wasn't the creator. David was. Carol was an assistant. He was the one who used protomatter and he never told his mom about it before he died.

The secret ingrediant was exposed.

Only to Savik, and David never told her HOW to use it.

The station it was created on survived.

Which had no information in the computers so Kahn woulnd't be able to get it.

The second test site survived.

Its reasonable to assume it was just as unstable as the third test site was.

The technology behind the Genesis device was used in a solar restoring device that converts balls of rock into new stars.

What episode was this?

Infact the Dominion had star destroying technology yet strangely witheld its use.

They claimed to have that ability. Without an actual demonstration, claims don't mean much around here.

The Federation has accidently blown up stars before (abnormal circumstances, but still).

If they can't reproduce it under controlled circumstances, you can't argue that its actual Fed tech.

And of course the ultimate super weapon. Time Travel.

You know where that discussion will end. You really want to go there?

[Alyeska]

First, the Genesis is not lost. There is plenty of information to support this. The station that created it survived.

But all data was erased from the computers there so Kahn wouldn't get it.

Having the source of the information and the original testing equipment is important.

Carol Marcus wasn't the creator. David was. Carol was an assistant. He was the one who used protomatter and he never told his mom about it before he died.

Actually Carol Marcus was the lead scientist.

Only to Savik, and David never told her HOW to use it.

Just knowing this is important enough. With Savik knowing and Carol being interested in knowing why her experiment failed, Savik is bound to have told Carol about the protomatter.

Which had no information in the computers so Kahn woulnd't be able to get it.

It still has important equipment. Besides, Kahn only had time to check the obvious points. He missed the transporter room. How much you wana bet he missed data on computers not connected to the main one in peoples dorm rooms.

Its reasonable to assume it was just as unstable as the third test site was.

I always wondered about that. The third test had elements not present in the second. The third test site failed very quickly. We get the impression that the second test site had been stable for a while.

What episode was this?

DS9 "Second Sight". A terraformer used a protomatter device to reignite a dead star (ball of rock). Given the number of similarities between Genesis and this, its fair to assume similar technology was used, but on a larger scale.

They claimed to have that ability. Without an actual demonstration, claims don't mean much around here.

Actually it was more then a claim. They attempted to blow up the Bajoran star and the Defiant detected Trilithium on the ship that attempted it.

If they can't reproduce it under controlled circumstances, you can't argue that its actual Fed tech.

True. Though the interesting bit is that these were standard torpedoes with only their navigation altered.

You know where that discussion will end. You really want to go there?

Trek has demonstrated two types of Time Travel. They can dimension jump with their time travel, but they have also time traveled on the same time contium.

[Admiral Johnason]

Ben, you need to stop before you call down Ousus or Mike. I made a few "errors" when I started to post here and made myself look like a jackass. Now, ST isn't that bad, otherwise it why is it the most common thing to have fighting Star Wars. Now, most of the new stuff is shit, but that doesn't mean that all of it is. Now calm down. You don't need to get emotional. Besides, most of the Trek superweapons are very effective and are extremly powerful. Some of them are equal to their Wars counterparts or are even better. The Genisis device can destroy a whole planet's population and still leave the planet habitable and useable. The trilithium torp is actually superior to the Sun Chrusher's weapon because it causes the reaction to occur at a faster pace and can be used on most ships. But, we don't know if the Sun Chrusher's weapon can only be used by the Sun Chrusher.

[Ben Ingram]

So I post something against Star Trek and all the ass kissers jump on my back because I'm a little less generous to Trek. Yeah, thats nice.

[Master of Ossus]

Shut the fuck up, Ben. Alyeska's not a troll. You are. You can stop posting your bullshit threads about things we've already covered several dozen times at your leisure, but until you do I'm going to have MUCH more respect for Alyeska than I do for you.

[Ben Ingram]

And I couldn't care less.

[Alyeska]

And I couldn't care less.

That is the words of a Troll.

[Ender]

It cost so much because it was a prototype, further constructions would be cheaper.
But the fact remains that it did cost much.

I repeat, where was this said? I don't recall it.

[Darth Servo]

Having the source of the information and the original testing equipment is important.

But not sufficient.

Actually Carol Marcus was the lead scientist.

But David is the one who got the thing to work (sort of) and he never told mom how.

Just knowing this is important enough.

But not sufficient. Knowing uranium is used in atomic bombs doesn't tell you how to use it or how much to use.

With Savik knowing and Carol being interested in knowing why her experiment failed, Savik is bound to have told Carol about the protomatter.

Assuming Savik ever left Vulcan again. Carol has no knowledge of the conversation between Savik and David so she has no reason to go look for Savik. Besides, Savic doesn't know HOW protomatter was used.

Which had no information in the computers so Kahn woulnd't be able to get it.

Besides, Kahn only had time to check the obvious points. He missed the transporter room. How much you wana bet he missed data on computers not connected to the main one in peoples dorm rooms.

How much you wanna bet that the genesis scientists would have taken such a stupid risk of leaving anything important behind for Starfleet to get its grubby hands on.

The third test had elements not present in the second.

Such as?

The third test site failed very quickly.

Define "very quickly" in spite of the fact that we have no idea how much time elapsed between ST 2 and ST 3. How long do you think it took them to patch up those big holes on the side of the ship?

We get the impression that the second test site had been stable for a while.

Again, define "a while".

DS9 "Second Sight". A terraformer used a protomatter device to reignite a dead star (ball of rock).

Dead star=ball of rock? Since when?

Given the number of similarities between Genesis and this, its fair to assume similar technology was used, but on a larger scale.

The same main ingredient was used. But re-igniting a dying star is hardly the same thing as making life grow in the middle of a barren asteroid or an accelerated time planet.

Actually it was more then a claim. They attempted to blow up the Bajoran star and the Defiant detected Trilithium on the ship that attempted it.

But they still never demonstrated it.

Trek has demonstrated two types of Time Travel. They can dimension jump with their time travel, but they have also time traveled on the same time contium.

Which instance of time travel did not result in a new time line?

[Darth Servo]

And I couldn't care less.

Then STFU asshole. I have far more respect for Alyeska than I do for you.

[apocolypse]

Shinzon's funky radiation? Sorry, I can't remember the name, but wasn't it supposed to kill all life (or at least humanoid life) on a planet?

[apocolypse]

Sorry, just realized that this is Feddie superweapons....not all of ST.

[Admiral Johnason]

What is the most powerful weapon that is employed on the majority of Starfleet's ships?

[Helm]

What is the most powerful weapon that is employed on the majority of Starfleet's ships?

Most powerful weapon? Well... the Federation's morality prohibits any sort of super weapon.

The only case that something is turned into a super weapon is when it has been perverted. The genesis device was designed to only be used to against lifeless planetoids... but of course, you can laungh it at lifeful one as well.

Then there is the trilithium torpedoes from Generations. The data was probably lost, however the theory to create one still exists.

But, everyone wants to know what the Federation's most powerful superweapon is?

Section 31. Rogue. Out of control... the Galactic Empire would love them.

[Helm]

And I couldn't care less.

Then STFU asshole. I have far more respect for Alyeska than I do for you.

I hope I'm not as bad as him. I hope you don't find me offensive.

[Admiral Johnason]

I said on the majority of starships. Unless Starfleet finally got off their butts and did the smart thing, they don't all have protomatter torps or tranphasic weapons on every ship yet.

[Helm]

Well, my answer was pretty much "no, they don't have any superweapons any any majority of ships"...

Section 31 is just the best bet they have right now for anything at all.

[Patrick Degan]

Sorry, but Genesis is lost technology. All but one of the project scientists were killed. The test-station computers were wiped to prevent the design specs for the Genesis Device from falling into Khan Singh's hands. The prototype Genesis Torpedo was destroyed when detonated, and the resulting planet produced from the Genesis Effect soon destroyed itself after formation. No further prototypes were produced of the device and all the information necessary to recreate the system was lost. Carol Marcus certainly does not survive to the 24th century and the project left no traces behind.

Having the Regula 1 station is useless. Information isn't stored within the framework, and unless the Federationists are planning to conduct a séance, there is nothing from the station which could possibly be useful in recreating the project from scratch.

The experimental stellar device used to reignite a dead sun may have used protomatter, but without the accompanying Genesis Effect, which seemed based on a rather complex computer formula to regulate the reaction, it could not perform the same function as a Genesis Device, no matter how much protomatter was used. Remember, it was "protomatter in the Genesis Matrix" which was the key to the planet-creation function.

[Helm]

I understand what you are saying Deagan, but they created it before. It's quite possible they could do it again, if they really felt they had to. Who knows what they might have hiding in secret... you never know. There could be a secret file deep inside Star Fleet data banks or in possession with Section 31 somewhere.

LIke I said, who knows. We will neve rknow. But it's rather pointless anyway, since the Fed's woul dnever use it as a super weapon.

[Soontir C'boath]

Quite possible and possibly they have it somewhere is pure speculation. If we allow it in...then we get a buncha of other lost tech and many other shit in.

Cyaround,
Jason