Stardock doesn't learn - MoM-inspired game heavy story based

[Stark]

Oh dear.

Now, in general terms, people would say 'why would they do that'. But Stardock is a special case. Galciv2 is regarded (even here) as having a derivative, incomprehensible, massively lame story (communicated through awful cutscenes and scripted missions nobody ever played) that was ultimately a meaningless embarrassment. So they're making a Master of Magic-esque game (which has some interesting ideas no mistake) and ... ... WRITING A FUCKING BOOK ABOUT IT.

Do they think anyone wants to buy their 10,000 years of fanfiction? Do they think this is a sensible use of money? GalCiv2 showed that they thought they could write a compelling scifi story (ie, Stargate + B5 + horrid) and they were dead wrong. Instead of learning, they're getting WORSE! Recent dev journals suggest the background they've created will feed somehow into the way sandbox works. There may be no escape.

[Duckie]

Well, I'm pretty sure the feedback loop is like this:

Stardock Manager: "Guys, the previous game's story got bashed pretty heavily in the reviews, even ones that liked the game."
Stardock Employee: "Hmm. We'll have to try harder on the story next time."

I'm delighted at where this is going, because I'm going to be interested in just how terrible and fanfiction.net the story is. Didn't the last one have a race of monkeys send a stargate at slowship speeds across a star system for 50,000 years, then open it up and invade a planet they had detected to enslave and eat those people; also everything was completely technologically stable until Open Source Humans released FTL engines on the interstellar internet so now suddenly everyone is researching new technologies at a Civilisation-esque pace?

That's some pretty hillarious stuff. I want more, this time terrible uninspired tolkienian fantasy in a "Man vs Machine" setting that totally hasn't been done before.

[Stark]

Today I spent a lot of time working on the story elements and timeline for Elemental to make sure it goes along with the book.
...
Of course, since I worked on that, I wasn’t able to do my walk thru of the alpha. I plan to get on that tomorrow.

Worthwhile use of time! Must make sure sandbox game with random map generator connects to marketable property fanfiction.

[Samuel]

I'm delighted at where this is going, because I'm going to be interested in just how terrible and fanfiction.net the story is. Didn't the last one have a race of monkeys send a stargate at slowship speeds across a star system for 50,000 years, then open it up and invade a planet they had detected to enslave and eat those people; also everything was completely technologically stable until Open Source Humans released FTL engines on the interstellar internet so now suddenly everyone is researching new technologies at a Civilisation-esque pace?

Yep. It gets better because the Yor are supposed to have FTL ships but don't really use them

[SirNitram]

Screw whining about the story.

MASTER OF MAGIC RIDES AGAIN!

Screw you all, I'm a fanboy, irrationality is part of it.

[Stark]

It's not Master of Magic in general or in detail; it's just a fantasy-themed strategy game.

Ironically MoM's story was BETTER.

[SirNitram]

It's not Master of Magic in general or in detail; it's just a fantasy-themed strategy game.

Ironically MoM's story was BETTER.

There was a story? I never found my manual.

[Vendetta]

It's not Master of Magic in general or in detail; it's just a fantasy-themed strategy game.

Ironically MoM's story was BETTER.

There was a story? I never found my manual.

I believe that's what Stark meant.

Anyway, I think I've got this game, it's called Age of Wonders....

[Stark]

Shadow Magic is so broken unit-wise, though. None of the cool squad-based stuff in MoM; it feels far more Civ-y and Civ sucks. Everything but the combat was MoM or MoM+ though, although the AI was lame.

Ironically I may have got my hazy memories of 'big wizard is dead now little wizards try to be big man on campus' story from Age of Wonders.

[Nephtys]

It's a hilariously sad state of affairs when MASTER OF ORION has a better storyline for a space epic than you. I think GalCiv's narrative counts as like... negative storytelling points.

It makes Sword of the Stars and Sins of a Solar Empire look like epic masterpeices by comparison.

[Stark]

That's the thing. Seriously read the dev stuff I linked to. Not only are they making another stupid story that will suck, they're printing a book! Why can't he just stop writing fanfiction?!

[Samuel]

That's the thing. Seriously read the dev stuff I linked to. Not only are they making another stupid story that will suck, they're printing a book! Why can't he just stop writing fanfiction?!

He thinks his stuff is good. Presumably his employees won't tell him or they also think it is good. The backround for Galactic Civilizations was written when he was in college but (mercifully) he rewrote it.

It's a hilariously sad state of affairs when MASTER OF ORION has a better storyline for a space epic than you. I think GalCiv's narrative counts as like... negative storytelling points.

It makes Sword of the Stars and Sins of a Solar Empire look like epic masterpeices by comparison.

Don't forget they have no interaction with your character. You are doing stuff because... just press the buttom okay? Seriously you are
http://galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Alan_Bradley
and we know jack shit about him. Everyone else is just a disposable number. They didn't even bother with something like having any advisors or any interaction with anything!

[Duckie]

Don't forget they have no interaction with your character. You are doing stuff because... just press the buttom okay? Seriously you are
http://galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Alan_Bradley
and we know jack shit about him. Everyone else is just a disposable number. They didn't even bother with something like having any advisors or any interaction with anything!

Wow, there's a guy named 'Netro Mancer' in the game? That's... really lame if it is supposed to sound like 'Necromancer'. Or even if it isn't.

Also, this Bradley earth president guy seems to have way more information about him than anyone else linked to (Netro Mancer and whoever his page links to), so it's not like he's particularly blank compared to anyone else.

[Anarchist Bunny]

While I never finished the campaign, and understood the Tech Level cap(but loathed that no one remembered how to build my fucking laser cannons), there was one mission in the middle that I really did enjoy. Where the Dread Lords start with three planets and you are matched up with 3 or 4 other races against them. It was great because it was bloody fucking battles with repeated Wolf 359 like battles just trying to hold the fucking line until one of the other races took Doom Rays in a quick recapture of a planet, me trading everything short of a planet for it, and bascily giving it to all the allies so that we could turn the tided and use our superior logistics to attrition the Dread Lords into dust.


Then fucking stardock changed it so you couldn't trade tech in that mission.

Fucking A.

[Oskuro]

How dare you question the creative genius of the minds who brought us the mighty Snathi?!

These guys are E-V-I-L! It's rumored that the Dread Lords, in a last ditch effort to destroy the Arnorians in the epic Battle of Kalis-Yu', focused all their dark energy, malice, and hatred into a army of war-hungry demons... the SNATHI! Now, after billions of years hoarding their proverbial 'Nuts', the Snathi have metaphorically 'climbed out of their tree' and will 'gnaw the galaxy with their big squirrel-like teeth'... so to speak.

"The Snathi exists to enslave all inferiors. We will soon learn if you are amongst them."

[Samuel]

Also, this Bradley earth president guy seems to have way more information about him than anyone else linked to (Netro Mancer and whoever his page links to), so it's not like he's particularly blank compared to anyone else.

I know- no one is given a personality. It would be better for the leaders to have one than the races because it would be less retarded, but they didn't go that route. It gets better because the game goes so close to doing that... and than says ignores it. A Krox acting in the name of something aside from greed? Don't worry- we are eliminating them from the game anyway.

How dare you question the creative genius of the minds who brought us the mighty Snathi?!

The picture doesn't work so the joke falls flatter than it normally would. Of course, it highlights their retarded morality system.

[Oskuro]

The picture doesn't work so the joke falls flatter than it normally would. Of course, it highlights their retarded morality system.

It doesn't? Odd, it does for me. Anyway, the Snathi were a bit funny, the rest was totally lame, I really never bothered with the campaigns, so I fully agree with Stark, these guys should focus on the gameplay.

In fact, how telling is it that they added the ability to create your own setting (AI opponents) in the second expansion?

[Dooey Jo]

It works for me, and I'm pretty sure I don't have anything cached from that site.

[Oskuro]

Must be the EVIIIIIL power of the Snathi at work

[Noble713]

I just figured this would be a 3d, polished version of Dominions 3, with less variety in factions.

Maybe that's because I never played Master of Magic, or Heroes of Might & Magic, etc....

The fact that they are writing a book/fanfic is largely meaningless to me, as long as GalCiv's tonque-in-cheek stupidity doesn't seep into the actual game.

[Stark]

Let's hope it's nothing at all like Dominions; indeed, let's hope you can start a game without having to fight a crap interface to 'create' a game and then 'start' it. What's that? Play by Email? Oh dear!

Dominions totally lacks many of the mechanics of a Civ-em-up anyway; it's much higher level and more traditional spreadsheet warrior than actual management. But the list of things Dominions lacks is pretty long, so...

[Noble713]

Dom3 excels at a few things, which, for me, are some of the most fun aspects of fantasy strategy games:

1. Lots of options for customizing your godlike avatar.
2. Huge variety of spells, creatures, and magic items.
3. "Supercombatants" that shit all over hundreds of rank&file troops.

Over the past two years there has also been plenty of work on Warhammer race mods, making it the closest computer equivalent of Warhammer Fantasy (the various Total War mods never seem to get finished, and the Total War engine doesn't support spellcasting well anyway).


Either way this new game has piqued my interest. Variety + customizability + 3d polish = win. Unless you go the Space Empires V route and burden it with one of the worst user interfaces EVER.

[Stark]

Lots of (worthless unbalanced) options
Lots of spells (you seldom get to cast or do jack shit), creatures (that are just a slightly variant statline and sometimes not a variant at all), and magic items (that are totally generic)
supercombatants that shit over hundreds of troops (unless they roll a 20 and your massive monster goes down to tim the light infantry)

The idea that Dominions is the 'closest computer equivalant to WHF' says more about them never making a WHF game than Dominions having anything to do with interesting tactical battles or non-retarded morale systems.

If Elemental is half as customisable as they say (and frankly I hope it is because their retarded fantasy world sounds horrid) it'll be great. The Space Empires games had a lot more problems (and fundamental ones) than just the UI; but complaining abotu SEV's UI without commenting on the masochism of the deliberately ugly and obtuse Dom3 interface is bizarre.

Remember, Elemental is actually CHEAPER than Domininons 3, which is years old and basically just an expansion to an even older game that looks and plays like my mum. Indy developers should really learn something.

[Noble713]

Lots of (worthless unbalanced) options

For me, "balance" doesn't have much meaning. I don't play anything multiplayer, so I don't need to do any power-gamey cutthroat min-maxing, nor do I benefit from some "fair" distribution of power. Against the AI, you're pretty much guaranteed to win sooner or later, it's just a matter of how. The fun is in crafting a "how" that I find interesting. It often involves employing sub-optimal units simply because I think they are cool and like what they represent. In which case the metric shit-tonne of "worthless" options aren't worthless, as I'm actually using many of them. YMMV.

but complaining abotu SEV's UI without commenting on the masochism of the deliberately ugly and obtuse Dom3 interface is bizarre.

The biggest problem with Dom3's interface is moving/managing your troops and configuring the spells/orders for your commanders. The rest is pretty straight-forward, as there really aren't too many facets of the game that need player interference. SE5, on the other hand, sucks across the board, lacking functionality common to even the most basic of Windows programs. The clearest example is in Fleet/Task Force Management. A Fleet lists its subordinate Task Forces, their formations, and their strategies.

To change a formation/strategy, you have to select the TF, go all the way down to the bottom of the window, click the relevant formation/strategy button which brings up a WHOLE NEW SUB-WINDOW, select the option you want, and hit ok.

A simpler solution would be to employ drop-down lists. Click on the TF's displayed formation/strategy, and then select a different option from the drop-down list. Voila. And we KNOW Aaron Hall knows how to program these because he used them in SE3 and SE4 (been so long since I played SE2 I don't remember much about the interface).


But anyways, I digress. My point was that Elemental sounds like a great idea on paper, and the screenshots look pretty, and I hope it doesn't all come crashing down when we get it and find it murderously unfun to play because of a bad interface, rendering it actually a worse than its 2D spiritual predecessors.