The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

[Jamesfirecat]

Should be very interesting to see just what Lemuriel (sp?) has gotten himself into, what kind of trouble Uriel is already into, and most of all here's one more big question, since we've gotten to see the Samuri and the Spartan (which sounds like the name of a bad sitcom) will we next get to see just what Robert E. Lee is up to at some point in Pantheocide?

[Serafina]

Military leaders in general are of limited use - they do not know anything about modern warfare.
Lee in general would not know anything about armoured warfare, aircrafts, strategic bombing, guided missiles, long-range power projection and so on. He should be able to understand those concepts after some time - but thats not something you want to rely on.

Aenas and Ori are usefull as instructors, perhaps even more than modern soldiers, as they have a better understanding for the martial tradtion of the baldricks (which is based on melee, rather than firepower) but still know about the imporance of teamwork.

On that subject, i want to see Ceasar (or another non-modern military genius) getting his mind blown by some modern military concepts (such as strategic bombing, blitzkrieg or nukes). Similar to Abigors introduction to nukes.

[KlavoHunter]

On that subject, i want to see Ceasar (or another non-modern military genius) getting his mind blown by some modern military concepts (such as strategic bombing, blitzkrieg or nukes). Similar to Abigors introduction to nukes.

Yes, but Caesar is undoubtedly taking pillow-talk tuition on modern warfare from Jade Kim, not to mention reading everything he can get his hands on (Which is 'practically anything', given his position). Plus, he's had the extremely important benefit of being free in Hell for the past 2 millenia, as opposed to writhing in not-quite-eternal torment, like any other random major historical figure that might be pulled from the lava.

[bcoogler]

Hydrogen. We know certain kinds of Demons and assume Angels as well chemically store hydrogen in their bodies and release it to inflate gas sacks which lessens their weight and makes wings a realistic method to keep airborne. They also know being shot will make the gaseous hydrogen explosively react with the surrounding air.
...
Now, how could they produce such vast amounts of hydrogen? Since they aren't likely to produce it by poking holes in themselves and collecting the evacuating hydrogen I would put my bets on electrolysis.

You could also throw pieces of zinc into acid and collect hydrogen that way. Easy to do, but difficult, I'd wager, for the angels to collect and store.

Something less technologically challenging would be to construct hot-air balloons. You initially inflate a hot-air balloon from a fire, and attach a gondola loaded with pitch. Set the pitch on fire, and quickly shove the whole works through a portal. When the pitch burns through the gondola, you have falling fire from the sky that sticks to things and burns.

[declan]

Okay, the whole technical discussion aside since it's flying right over my head... I couldn't help but notice neither Michael nor Belial had any ideas for the raining fire without sky vulcanoes.

The author may have his own ideas on how thats going to happen, but really the only person who actually needs to see the bowl get tipped over is Yah Yah or at least been told his will has been done.

Since the big dude seems to have delegated authority for the godstrike to Michael-lan, seems to me that a case could be made for Mikey gun decking the problem and telling Yah Yah its been done. Lots of casualties and all.

Declan

[Stuart]

It was probably just poetic license on Stuart's part. Saying it's a warcrime to use these guys in battle sounds a lot cooler then saying "That would get their Swiss Citizenship revoked."

You got it, its just the character speaking being poetic (remember the golden rule; in fiction the characters speak for themselves, not teh author). I don't think the hire of Swiss pike regiments is actually a warcrime, I think it was just frowned upon as being not quite playing the game. The problem now is of course that the term "war crime" has been so over-used it has lost all meaning.

[Darth Wong]

I don't know why so many people insist on assuming that every line of dialogue in the story must be literally true in-context. In real life, people say ridiculously exaggerated things all the time. I've accused people of crimes against humanity for passing gas after eating Mexican food.

[Bayonet]

I've accused people of crimes against humanity for passing gas after eating Mexican food.

If you had been sitting next to me, you might even have considered convening a tribunal.

[muon]

The eventual arrival of the YAL-1A has actually been set up for some time. It was introduced in Armageddon Part 33 (one of the Chekov's guns contained there) and it's now about to get fired. The whole point about the Normandy's SPY-1 target designation radar being included and having an effect was to set up the switch to the YAL-1. The idea was that (more or less accidentally) an inefficient beam weapon of relatively little effect was used and this woke people up to the idea of replacing it with an effective and efficient beam weapon. And that sets us up for the next phase of the story

The way I do stories is to write out a relatively detailed plot first and then flesh it out. In Armageddon, I didn't initially do that, the first part appeared within a day or two of the light getting turned on in my head. The first few parts were actually written in parallel with the plotline being worked out. That also meant I was able to bring in contributions from other people as they were formulated (it also meant that I had to modify or, in one case change direction, of the contributions). In contrast, the gap between Armageddon and Pantheocide allowed me to get the detailed plot worked out in advance and we're more or less following that line.

Well, that's even more impressive then! Knowing that there really is such a detailed and self-consistent backstory and plot structure in place, helps make the entire tale that much richer and more enjoyable. I'm just pleased I was able to correctly deduce this sub-point, in my own rather roundabout way.

Regardless, no worries here. I have no ego at stake in the game, and wasn't implying that this was some sort of personal vindication; seeing the physics itself be validated is more than enough for me.

"...the YAL-1A ... now about to get fired..."! Oooh, this is gonna be good!

Wow! I'm still getting used to actually being a part of SDN... seeing my physics suggestions (including lasers vs masers for this application, no less) appear quickly in-story like this is, well, somehow disturbingly gratifying.

Thanks, Stuart! For the acknowledgment, as well as, yes, the online addiction.

Your contributions are well-written and no doubt appreciated by all.

Thanks. The incredibly high signal-to-noise ratio of this site is what prompted me to join and compose such posts, and I'm happy to know I'm in such good technically-sophisticated company... even if all this is, in the final analysis, dangerously memetically-irresistable intellectual crack! Sigh. Very well then, "I'm muon, and I'm a Salvation War addict."

[Simon_Jester]

I don't know why so many people insist on assuming that every line of dialogue in the story must be literally true in-context. In real life, people say ridiculously exaggerated things all the time. I've accused people of crimes against humanity for passing gas after eating Mexican food.

Quite often, when a character says something ridiculous in-story, it's because the author screwed up. Telling when it's an authorial screwup and when it's just a character saying something ridiculous is tricky, so people get it wrong a lot.

You could also throw pieces of zinc into acid and collect hydrogen that way. Easy to do, but difficult, I'd wager, for the angels to collect and store.

In which case it comes down to a question of "did Michael ever bother to get his hands on a high school chemistry textbook?"

[Edward Yee]

"Everybody bombed up?"

Is this a typo that should be "everyone topped up" or "topped off"?

If a plane has completed loading it's payload of munitions, it is said to be 'bombed up'. It's not a typo.

It was right after a mention of fueling, so I surmised at the time that it was related to that instead of her asking a separate question about munitions.

[BR7]

In which case it comes down to a question of "did Michael ever bother to get his hands on a high school chemistry textbook?"

I think that would be a reasonable development. He should have realized a while ago that basic knowledge like that would offer insight into human activities and capabilities. A more interesting question, I think, is whether he provided Beliel with references like that.

[Pelranius]

In which case it comes down to a question of "did Michael ever bother to get his hands on a high school chemistry textbook?"

I think that would be a reasonable development. He should have realized a while ago that basic knowledge like that would offer insight into human activities and capabilities. A more interesting question, I think, is whether he provided Beliel with references like that.

The problem for Michael is, can he use such knowledge (assuming that he has it in the first place) by employing it on a mass scale without creating more problems by letting his underlings gain access to such information that they could use for trouble in the event of someone getting disgruntled?

I don't think Michael and Belial by themselves can produce enough material to make it literally rain fire instead of just throwing flaming spitballs.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I've kept up with the story whilst I was at Ft Sill, so I'm still waiting for that hole to be filled, Stuart, he IS dead after all.

[tim31]

Oh, so you think you can just waltz in after more than a year and not say hi to the rest of us?

[bcoogler]

I don't think Michael and Belial by themselves can produce enough material to make it literally rain fire instead of just throwing flaming spitballs.

True, but flaming spitballs may be all that is needed to meet the "fire from the heavens" requirement. If a flaming spitball starts a forest fire which burns up a few houses, you know Michael would make a lot of mileage out of it with the boss.

Another low-tech solution would be to build a trebuchet. There may already be humans in heaven who know how to build one. If not, Michael could request printed plans the next time he makes a Myanmar drug run.

What can you do with a trebuchet? Open a portal and use the trebuchet to lob flaming balls of pitch through the portal. Depending on Micheal's trade relations with Myanmar or North Korea, he could just as easily use a trebuchet to launch napalm or incendiary bombs. (Or if Micheal's into Monty Python, a flaming cow. )

No need for an angel to endanger himself flying through the portal -- just open it, toss a few things through, and close it. There would be no way I'm aware of to stop flaming pitch, napalm, or bombs from dropping out of a portal parked a few hundred feet above a target.

EDIT: However, if a bunch of angels opened a portal for trebuchet tossing and left it open for too long, that would give us the opportunity to fly something back through the portal, and possibly get a fix on the location of Heaven.

[Valiran]

I don't know why so many people insist on assuming that every line of dialogue in the story must be literally true in-context. In real life, people say ridiculously exaggerated things all the time. I've accused people of crimes against humanity for passing gas after eating Mexican food.

Why can't more people have this sort of common sense?

[Hawkwings]

I'm looking forward to the epic fail of the fourth bowl and the reactions from scientists and world leaders to that epic fail. Flaming spitballs? Trebuchets? Hell, if it's anything less than another city-destroying volcano, especially after such a long delay since the third bowl, people are going to be disappointed.

Of course, this does seem like a good point in the story to have Michael start being knocked down. With him going to rescue Uriel, the detective moving in, and all. Murphy's law still applies no matter what universe you're in, and things tend to go crashing down around you all at once.

[Pelranius]

Or Michael could try Greek Fire, if he talks to one of Heaven's humans. That would probably be more problematic to employ than the 'flaming spitballs'.

If Michael can fool Ya ya about the extent of the attacks, then why not just straight out lie to him about the deployment of the Bowls?

[Darth Wong]

Or Michael could try Greek Fire, if he talks to one of Heaven's humans. That would probably be more problematic to employ than the 'flaming spitballs'.

Without access to a huge natural reservoir of high-temperature material such as Belial's volcanoes, it would be an insignificant annoyance relative to the kinds of weapons humans routinely deploy on each other. He can't manufacture such gigantic volumes of napalm.

[Ast]

Or Michael could try Greek Fire, if he talks to one of Heaven's humans. That would probably be more problematic to employ than the 'flaming spitballs'.

If Michael can fool Ya ya about the extent of the attacks, then why not just straight out lie to him about the deployment of the Bowls?

I guess that Michael isn't the only one Yahyah talks to and he has to at least make it seem as if he conducted the attack so the other angels don't get suspicious.

[Simon_Jester]

As noted before, at this point all he's really aiming for is to use the attack to cause some semblance of damage. If he can tell Yahweh that he did it, he can get on with things that will actually have more effect, even if the 'rain of fire' was little more than a nuisance attack.

I think forest fires might be his best bet. Portal detection coverage is likely to be weaker in the middle of large forests, so he's more likely to get away with it. The fires take at least a noticeable amount of money and effort to fight, and it sounds good to be able to tell your boss "we burned a hundred thousand square miles of forest down." It's not as effective as pouring lava all over major enemy cities, but it's better than nothing.

If he tries that, it might help for him to appeal to Yahweh to divert rain away from the forest areas he wants to hit, causing artificial drought conditions.

[Sea Skimmer]

Or Michael could try Greek Fire, if he talks to one of Heaven's humans. That would probably be more problematic to employ than the 'flaming spitballs'.

Without access to a huge natural reservoir of high-temperature material such as Belial's volcanoes, it would be an insignificant annoyance relative to the kinds of weapons humans routinely deploy on each other. He can't manufacture such gigantic volumes of napalm.

Earth used to have a quite a few spots at which crude oil naturally seeped to the surface which was collected for lamp oil centuries before anyone through to drill for oil. Obtaining relatively large quantities of fuel oil might not be totally out of reason if any deposits such as this exist in Heaven and can be exploited with thousands of slaves and maybe some drilling rigs secretly brought in from North Korea. It only took about 100 tons of firebombs to destroy a square mile of Japanese city under optimal conditions after all.

[bcoogler]

Or Michael could try Greek Fire, if he talks to one of Heaven's humans. That would probably be more problematic to employ than the 'flaming spitballs'.

Without access to a huge natural reservoir of high-temperature material such as Belial's volcanoes, it would be an insignificant annoyance relative to the kinds of weapons humans routinely deploy on each other. He can't manufacture such gigantic volumes of napalm.

Unless Stuart has something really cool in mind no one here has stumbled over yet, "flaming spitballs" is exactly what I expect.

Even if Michael traded for napalm from one of his regular suppliers, a napalm attack could not be in the same devastating league as a volcano attack, if he just targets a city center at random.

OTOH, if Michael is a bit more careful with his target selection, such as targeting a commercial airport hub (like LAX), a chemical plant, or above-ground fuel stores, he could achieve a few significant disruptions. In other words, Michael can achieve more if he behaves like a terrorist.

[Pelranius]

Unless Stuart has something really cool in mind no one here has stumbled over yet, "flaming spitballs" is exactly what I expect.

Even if Michael traded for napalm from one of his regular suppliers, a napalm attack could not be in the same devastating league as a volcano attack, if he just targets a city center at random.

OTOH, if Michael is a bit more careful with his target selection, such as targeting a commercial airport hub (like LAX), a chemical plant, or above-ground fuel stores, he could achieve a few significant disruptions. In other words, Michael can achieve more if he behaves like a terrorist.

Given how stretched thing the ammo supply situation is, Michael would be smart to start firebombing Chinese industry.