Animated Films You Probably Never Saw (DW, Dis. seqs, obsc.)

[Pick]

I'd say An American Tale is less obscure than any of those, actually, but I was just doing a run by studio (which makes it easier for me to remember.) Don't worry, Scamper the Penguin, the 1973 The Nutcracker, the Soviet The Mermaid, and others are sure to come . Part of it is even remembering the name. There's one about some animals who are musicians in a land that has banned music, but I can't even remember what country it was produced in.

[Guardsman Bass]

Did you ever see The Little Toaster? That one was one of my favorites when I was younger. I also watched Little Nemo (whose opening sequence freaked me out as a kid).

[Pick]

Yup, Brave Little Toaster is one of my favs. By Hyperion. They made two sequels. I'll probably cover it in the next roundup, though it's hardly rare. Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland was totally on my list of next ones to cover, though, since that film is frankly amazing. I mean, the plot is pretty "eh", but the animation is first-class and the production values are mmm delicious. It's a good movie anyway, but I'm not a big circus fan, so it put it and me at a bit of a rift.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I've heard mostly second-hand that the out of print Little Nemo DVD includes the original Japanese version, which is about 15 minutes longer than the American dubbed release. Is there truth to that? I've kind of wanted to see that movie for a while.

Also, I always liked Prince of Egypt a lot, mostly because it comes off as a much less bombastic and blowhard version of The Ten Commandments in my opinion.

[Ryushikaze]

I was glad to see more of the characters, which was the main thing, although unfortunately, Gantu doesn't show up. Man, though, are those side-character aliens gay or what. See, I try not to be one of "those" girls, but... but man.

It's not just you. They hammed up the birdcage aspect pretty heavily during the animated series.

And I love the little Nemo cartoon (I read an archive of some of the old old newspaper comics) and the video game, but have never seen the animated movie that the video game is apparently based off of. I should correct that.

[Ford Prefect]

I was glad to see more of the characters, which was the main thing, although unfortunately, Gantu doesn't show up. Man, though, are those side-character aliens gay or what. See, I try not to be one of "those" girls, but... but man.

It's okay, if Gantu had shown up he would have been inexplicably been shrunk. Seriously he goes from the size of a Gundam to just 'pretty big' in the series and I wasn't young enough at the time to ignore it. Also Jumba and Pleakley are strange, bro. Obviously Pleakley wears a dress because he has three legs, but it's amazing how much they act as if they are actually married, as opposed to being undercover.

Treasure Planet and Lilo & Stitch are probably the best animated films ever made, from a technical standpoint

I was going to make a smary comment along the lines of 'lol akira *smugdog*', but thought better of it. More seriously, it seems bewildering that people would maintain that The Prince of Egypt remains better than all of Disney's films. It's solid, of course, but usually pretty standard when it coems to direction.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, I kind of thought that animu Akira's detailed artwork in giant mutaloidified guts and intestines asphyxiating and squishing tiny little underaged Japanese rape-victim girls was kind of compelling and really breath-taking.

[Ford Prefect]

I don't really want to derail Pick's thread because the theme is quite obviously animated films out of the West, but AKIRA's animation is frankly kind of astonishing. Even after 21 years it doesn't have any real sort of equal in Japanese animation when it comes to both the level of detail and the fluidity of animation. 160,000 cels, and even adjusting for inflation it doesn't cost all that much more than, say, Spirited Away. Beauty and the Beast cost almost twice as much to produce, for example. It's just kind of impressive that even after all this time there isn't much which actually comes close to matching it in terms of animation. The closest is basically the original Ghost in the Shell film, which had awful character designs.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh, hell yeah, I definitely agree with you. Akira - for all its weirdness and not-for-the-squeamishness - was a marvel of animation. It's probably the animu equivalent of Blade Runner, in terms of technical achievement that still stands the test of time, being damn good to look at despite being a decades-old work. Though I don't really think it's obscure.

Personally, I'd go with Blue Submarine No. 6 as an awesome animu. I don't think it's that popular but I totally dig it.

There was another animu about submarines... it had some kind of sentient liquid lifeform, something like Abyss, that was wrecking havoc and fighting it were submarines (that weren't crazy sci-fi ones like from Blue Submarine). The submarines had awesome "3D visual sonar" technology. I don't remember the title of it - can someone help me out?

Hey, has anyone mentioned The Hunchback of Notre Dame? I don't think it's one of the more popular Disney movies... seeing as its protagonist IS a deformed cripple. It's also great in that the villain is a crazed religious authority figure.

[Themightytom]

Oh, hell yeah, I definitely agree with you. Akira - for all its weirdness and not-for-the-squeamishness - was a marvel of animation. It's probably the animu equivalent of Blade Runner, in terms of technical achievement that still stands the test of time, being damn good to look at despite being a decades-old work. Though I don't really think it's obscure.

Personally, I'd go with Blue Submarine No. 6 as an awesome animu. I don't think it's that popular but I totally dig it.

There was another animu about submarines... it had some kind of sentient liquid lifeform, something like Abyss, that was wrecking havoc and fighting it were submarines (that weren't crazy sci-fi ones like from Blue Submarine). The submarines had awesome "3D visual sonar" technology. I don't remember the title of it - can someone help me out?

Hey, has anyone mentioned The Hunchback of Notre Dame? I don't think it's one of the more popular Disney movies... seeing as its protagonist IS a deformed cripple. It's also great in that the villain is a crazed religious authority figure.

Or what about unico?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083258/

I'm Preetty sure unico kicked Stans ass at some point but I was pretty young when I saw it.

[Stark]

Blue Submarine is hobbled by itself, though; through the run the producers became massively better at what they were doing. The first episode is a disaster of animation/CG blending, wheras the last episode is superior.

[Ford Prefect]

Blue Submarine is hobbled by itself, though; through the run the producers became massively better at what they were doing. The first episode is a disaster of animation/CG blending, wheras the last episode is superior.

We've totally knocked the train off the rails, but Blue Submarine no.6 was a Gonzo production, from around the time they were really getting into CG. The same problems actually plagued the Hellsing TV series, too (which was probably lower budget to boot). On the upside BS6 had character designs by Range Murata, who is excellent.

[Pick]

Ryu: You should! The movie is great and I'm sure you'll be impressed .

--
Ford: Aww, but his giant-ness was half the charm! That and his gooby feet. Man, I wonder if they ever made merchandise of him? I need it. As for Jumbaa and Pleakley, well.... They're at that point where I suspect the writers think of it that way but just can't say it for fear of offending people, but a part of me rejects viewing it in that manner because I'm touchy about people over-analyzing children's media (read: being an internet crazy).

--
Akira's animation is very strong--indeed, some of the best ever produced. However, like Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, which is also very nicely animated if not of the same tier, it does have a few weaknesses I don't think Disney's very best shared, but that Disney's merely good, average, and poor certainly did in spades. I actually think one of the most impressive things about Lilo & Stitch's animation, for instance, is the character 'weight' and the sense of volume that they got with minimal use of linework. It was perfectly crisp and clean while at the time same entirely convincing. Having more lines does not a superior piece of animation make; in the same vein, I think one of the best comic book artists is (and forgive me here for not recalling the name, it's on the tip of my tongue) is the person who drew the initial volumes of Invincible (I simply haven't read the later ones and hear the artist changed but is still good.) And as for integration between 3D and 2D elements, Long John Silver is the best example ever made.

--
Themighttom: I mentioned that Unico and its sequel are on my list.
--

As for Hunchback of Notre Dame, that's definitely not obscure enough to make the cut. In fact, the only two members of Disney's recent canon that I think could would be Home on the Range (the studio's last) and The Black Cauldron, the latter of which is not "new" by a long shot, but definitely sucks.

I do feel inclined to mention, though, that Hunchback is another marvel of animation that I think was sorely under-appreciated. Frollo, especially--whose lead animator was actually a woman, which is pretty damn rare. Visually, he was the most complicated villain design that Disney had ever done at that point, and maybe ever did. He was exceptionally animated and amazes me whenever I watch it. However, Quasimodo himself--animated by the great James Baxter--was also handled beautifully. Animated cripples or encumbered people is extremely hard, since the weight is shifted and the gait has to be determined by the build and load. "God Help the Outcasts" is a beautifully directed sequence, but "Hellfire" is better, and damn if they aren't two of my favorite Disney songs.

[TimothyC]

We're Back was a perversion of a Children's book that I enjoyed as a young kid. The pain plot in the book was the dinosaurs evading the cops after the T.Rex popped a Thanksgiving balloon.

[Big Orange]

The Nostalgia Critic reviews We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story.

Freddie as F.R.0.7 was such a weird and awful cartoon movie (and perhaps the worst animated bomb of all time), this edited clip perhaps more sense:

[Pick]

Thanks! I haven't seen Freddie the Frog in a long-ass time (partially since I'd have to... buy it. And on VHS.) It was just so fucking surreal.

[White Haven]

Not only is Rock and Rule awesome to watch with friends (and an 80s nut!), but your review of it has produced my new out of context theatre for the week. Rejoice!

[Tiriol]

As for Hunchback of Notre Dame, that's definitely not obscure enough to make the cut. In fact, the only two members of Disney's recent canon that I think could would be Home on the Range (the studio's last) and The Black Cauldron, the latter of which is not "new" by a long shot, but definitely sucks.

I do feel inclined to mention, though, that Hunchback is another marvel of animation that I think was sorely under-appreciated. Frollo, especially--whose lead animator was actually a woman, which is pretty damn rare. Visually, he was the most complicated villain design that Disney had ever done at that point, and maybe ever did. He was exceptionally animated and amazes me whenever I watch it. However, Quasimodo himself--animated by the great James Baxter--was also handled beautifully. Animated cripples or encumbered people is extremely hard, since the weight is shifted and the gait has to be determined by the build and load. "God Help the Outcasts" is a beautifully directed sequence, but "Hellfire" is better, and damn if they aren't two of my favorite Disney songs.

I absolutely love The Black Cauldron, but not due to a complex story or anything similar: the main villain is simply amazing, despite his lack of character.

And yes, Hellfire IS amazing. The Hunchback is my favourite Disney animation to date and Frollo is a powerful character and villain and his animation is truly amazing. However, a lot of credit has to be given to the voice actor, Tony Jay (may he rest in peace). I'm also rather fond of the German Frollo and the Finnish Frollo, both excellent version of Disney's Frollo.

[Sriad]

I would like to call to the board's attention a hidden gem:

The Thief and the Cobbler
Stop me if you've heard this one before: you have on one hand an urchin, the beautiful princess he loves, and a doddering old sultan. On the other, you have a scheming vizier (with bird sidekick) reaching beyond his grasp for magical and temporal power... and a bumbling stinky thief. And a one-eyed hundred-toothed bandit atop an unstoppable war machine hell-bent on ransacking the jewel of the desert. And one of the longest stays in Development Hell in the history of cinema.

If you know him at all, it's probably for Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, but this movie is Richard Williams' hand animated life's work. It spent 26 years in production, bouncing between different financiers until Williams lost the rights in 1991. The full horror show is chronicled on (of course) wikipedia, but the short version is that the finished footage was slopped together with shoestring budget outsourced filler animation and released as the reviled flops The Princess and the Thief internationally and the even worse Miramax version Arabian Knight. Execrable musical numbers were shoehorned in, the silent Cobbler and Thief were given trite voice-tracks... a classic train wreck of studio meddling.

That's not the version you're going to watch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_and_the_Cobbler
In 2006, a fan of Richard Williams' work named Garrett Gilchrist created a non-profit fan restoration of William's workprint, the Recobbled Cut. It was done in as high quality as possible by combining available sources, such as a bootleg copy of Williams' workprint and DVD and VHS copies of the released versions. This edit was much supported by numerous people who had worked on the film (with the exception of Richard Williams himself, who wishes not to have anything to do with the film anymore), including Roy Naisbitt, Alex Williams, Andreas Wessel-Therhorn, Tony White, Holger Leihe, Steve Evangelatos, Greg Duffell, Jerry Verschoor and Beth Hannan, many of whom lent rare material for the project. Some minor changes were made to "make it feel more like a finished film", like adding more music and replacing storyboards with some of Fred Calvert's animation.[13] This has been called "the best and most important 'fan edit' ever made".[20]

Some parts are just pencil. A few are barely more than storyboards. But most of it is mind-bendingly detailed hand-drawn animation for its own sake. The soundtrack is terrific, Vincent fucking Price as the perpetually rhyming Grand Vizier Zigzag is a delight, the slapstick set pieces are spot on... Try it. You'll like it. Or love it.

The Thief and the Cobbler: The Recobbled Cut

[Uraniun235]

I've seen that before. Very nice.

The thief reminded me a whole lot of Dijon from the Ducktales movie, which makes me wonder if the Ducktales movie had perhaps lifted some elements.

[ray245]

The Prince of Egypt

This movie was handled very well, but I don't like it. Heck, I don't even like it as much as King of Dreams. I found the religious aspect way too overpowering in this film, and it felt like blatant pandering to the Christian demographic. Now, I must admit, that might have been a good business move for them. Disney movies are usually popular (or were) with that crowd, and this was a good way to urge them in Dreamworks' direction instead for animated entertainment. It has some well-handled dark parts, gets pretty intense, lots of conflict, all that good stuff. Its budget was fairly meager compared to Disney's films, but it made a lot of money and remains, apparently, a staple among Christian movie collections now. The animation here is exceptional, but I strongly disagree with those who say it bests Disney's, or at least, Disney's contemporary works. Treasure Planet and Lilo & Stitch are probably the best animated films ever made, from a technical standpoint, and I stand by that until something new emerges. This movie relied on a lot of simple shots and angles, which is easier, and does the job, but doesn't compare from the animation angle. I mean, not that it needed those things, but you get my point. Anyway, it's Old Testament, and God's a shithead, but at least you can sort of see where Moses and the Pharoh are both coming from. Solid movie despite its historical inaccuracies, etc.

Given that I've viewed this movie just like how I treat any other movie about all the Greek Gods and all that, the christian angle doesn't bother me that much.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Not only is Rock and Rule awesome to watch with friends (and an 80s nut!), but your review of it has produced my new out of context theatre for the week. Rejoice!

Rock & Rule is the movie Heavy Metal so badly wanted to be.

[Sriad]

The Thief and the Cobbler
[...]
The Thief and the Cobbler: The Recobbled Cut

I don't normally explicitly advocate piracy on this site, but if you're planning to watch this (or have previously enjoyed it) you should definitely get the torrent (the one that's a bit over 700 megs), since the image quality is incomparably better than the google video compressed version; though it's only about VHS level the details that gets lost in artifacts really pop out.

I've seen that before. Very nice.

The thief reminded me a whole lot of Dijon from the Ducktales movie, which makes me wonder if the Ducktales movie had perhaps lifted some elements.

It wouldn't surprise me if Thief (especially given its epic production time) served as a training ground for a lot of influential animators over the years.

[Steve]

I really resented King of Egypt

fuck you the ramses moses stuff was genius

in one move it went from being bible adaptation crap to being awesome character conflict

may be hitting the nostalgia glasses a little hard here

To me that's what set "King of Egypt" apart from "The Ten Commandments" and even (blasphemy!) made it a bit better. The conflict between Ramses and Moses has that bitter tragic element to it as they were so close as brothers (As opposed to Heston's Moses and Brynner's Ramses, who were rivals from Scene 1 of TDC) and having Moses feel guilt and anguish over the devastation being wrought upon Egypt, his damned homeland, works so much better than Heston's Moses seeming to have completely forgotten he was raised Egyptian and not really giving a rat's ass. Though at least the Heston Moses' growing distance from anything close to him is touched upon by Nefertiri's conversation with his wife.

Really, TDC's very epicness worked against it because in the first half of the movie Moses is made out to be this awesome leader and statesman who successfully turned enemies into allies (Ethiopia) and then using wise policies built his uncle's treasure city in such swiftness and grandeur that Seti was awestruck at his progress and proclaimed Moses his freakin' heir. At that point forcing the Biblical story into the movie - Moses fleeing Egypt in disgrace - forces a complete derailing of the character. I mean, seriously, some daft bitch of a servant comes forward to confess Moses' origins and nobody figures that she might be working for the bitter rival who's just had his own father proclaim Moses, not he, as the next Pharaoh? Nefertiri should've burned that damned cloth the instant the old bitch handed it to her.

[fgalkin]

The best cartoon ever created. Bar none.


Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin