Dust 514 - EVE Online FPS

[Jon]

Just got announced today. Console FPS that will link into the MMO;

http://www.eveonline.com/pressreleases/ ... leaseID=60

CCP Unveils DUST 514

Cologne, GERMANY, Game Developers Conference Europe – August 18, 2009 – CCP today revealed DUST 514™, a console-based hybrid MMO/FPS set within the EVE universe. The announcement, which included a video featuring gameplay footage, was made during a keynote address by CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar Petursson at the Game Developers Conference in Cologne, Germany.

DUST 514, featuring first-person shooter and RTS-style gameplay, will interact directly with EVE Online, CCP’s critically acclaimed flagship MMO. This interplay between the two games opens the EVE universe to console gamers and gives them a chance to become part of one of the most massive cooperative play and social experiences ever.

“We launched EVE Online in 2003 and have experienced steady annual growth– a fact we appreciate as a rarity in the world of MMOs, especially given the global economy of the past year,” said Petursson. “Our success with EVE Online has afforded us the highest caliber global design and production talent in gaming. With a team of the best minds in the industry, we conceived an ambitious new take on virtual world development with DUST 514.”

The primary gameplay of DUST 514 features brutal ground combat that takes place on the surface of planets from EVE, delivering the visceral, adrenaline-fueled experience of futuristic firefights. Developed for the current generation of consoles, DUST 514 combines equal parts battlefield reflexes and strategic planning, giving commanders and ground infantry real-time configurable weapons and modular vehicles to manage dynamic battlefield conditions.

Now entering its third year of production, DUST 514 is the primary development focus of CCP’s Shanghai studio. The team includes veteran designers of EVE Online and experienced talent from various sectors of the video game industry.

“Since opening our Shanghai studio, we have invested in building a team that wants to push the envelope in gaming and be pioneers in the industry,” said Kjartan Pierre Emilsson, Managing Director of CCP Shanghai. “Having led the design and development efforts of the project from start to finish, our studio is honored to call DUST 514 our first title release.”

Further details will be revealed at CCP’s annual Fanfest event October 1-3, 2009 in Reykjavik, Iceland.

DUST 514 images can be found here and here.

There is a trailer here; (taken on cam so quality suffers a little)

http://www.golem.de/0908/69136.html

[Temjin]

I have no idea how to react to this.

I knew CCP was interested in changing the way sovereignty works, but I had no idea they would move in this direction.

I am very curious to see how this turns out, and to see exactly how big an impact this will have on the EVE landscape.

[Commander 598]

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in "console only". Hilmar, or whoever, is apparently a bit too smug when anyone asks about the PC.

[General Zod]

Do we have any type of idea what kind of game engine they're using? Is this going to be something actually new or will it be UT3 with resource management?

[Stark]

More to the point, will it be ANY FUCKING GOOD? Marketing blurb aside, this doesn't really seem very likely. It'd be neat if they totally ditched attempts to appeal to EVE players (ie slowness, spreadsheets, etc) and tried to hit an entirely different market.

[PREDATOR490]

Wait, is this supposed to have some gameplay link to the ACTUAL EVE game ?

If it is just the story then its fairly run of the mill FPS action with EVE lore BUT if the two were somehow integrated into the same game universe that would make for a rather impressive concept. The idea of console gamers being able to run around on planets while allies fight in orbit has a nice appeal but the feasibility strikes me as highly unlikely. With ambulation being a projected feature in the future, introducing the FPS action into stations would be rather impressive.

The trailers looks pretty impressive and but I really doubt this will be anything more than a simple FPS with EVE lore and expansions like Fallout 3.
Unless they intended to allow ground gamers into space or space players on the ground then inter-dependance strikes me as extremely problematic. All the major alliances are in trouble if they have to depend on console gamers to fight their ground war without any actual control and ground pounders will get rather pissed off when a new character in EVE can fly a ship that can level entire cities without much effort.

Take that apparant Megathron that got destroyed in the trailer, is that supposed to be a player from the EVE space MMO getting toasted while ground pounders fight in tanks ?
When the ship fighting ends, the surviving ships can turn their weapons on the console gamer troops with impunity and I can only imagine the whine fest that will ensue when you have console gamers screaming 'nerf' the overpowered spaceships going against the space players screaming murder when a console gamer can take down battleships with ground equipment.

[Stark]

Since they expressly state that the FPS players can participate in the same corps as in EVE, it seems clear that they're directly linked in some way. How this is going to be anything but broken is beyond me (given the lack of regulation in EVE but the high level of 'tournament' style stuff that'll be required to balance FPS.

Why do you think new players in EVE can level entire cities? EVE weapons output seems pretty anemic in the game.

[GuppyShark]

They've said it will influence _planetary_ sovereignty but there will be not be a direct connection between the games IE you will not be flying an EVE Megathron into a Dust firefight. Not every ship is capsuleer-fitted, it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for NPC ships to appear in Dust.

Instead EVE players will supply the DUST players with cash and equipment etc.

(There is a translated interview going around so details are still somewhat sketchy, obv EVE players are rabidly chasing up any scrap of information at the moment).

Plenty of speculation and rumour because we really know dick about how it's going to be.

Stark - the (translated) interview says CCP are focused on delivering a quality console FPS, not EVE on foot - they're conciously targetting a different market. We'll have to wait for release to tell if they've succeeded.

[Stark]

I'm curious how they're going to set up the FPS client so the players have more to do than 'constantly fight the same objective, ticket-based game as battlefield because some idiot in a corp says so'. Going by what they say they're going to have to build in a lot of the comunication and information system from EVE into it, which is probably going to be a barrier to entry for noobs.

I wonder what mix of EVE doubleups and new players they expect?

[PREDATOR490]

The weapons in EVE are hardly impressive within their scale but I would expect ship to ship weapons have enough power to kill people and even the Civilian blaster should do this. Once you start going up the scale to the larger weapons the disparity will become more evident without a LOT of imposed restrictions.
I would have expected a standard 'no spaceships' restriction for ground warefare but the ships in this clip would suggest otherwise unless it is going to be simple scenic eye candy.

The idea of FPS players being able to paricipate in independant PLAYER space corps seems rather unfeasible. I think it is highly likely going to be Militia based warefare where the actions of both space and ground can reasonably interact while being seperated in their own worlds. In which case, I think it might make Faction Warefare interesting but still brings up issues relating to inter-dependance.

[Commander 598]

The idea of ships planetside isn't exactly crazy talk, one of "future goals" for EVE was planetary flight, theorized to happen "sometime" after "walking in stations"/Ambulation. This could actually cover both of them.

Atmospheric Flight Demo from ~2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg1dzAv ... re=related

[Stark]

The weapons in EVE are hardly impressive within their scale but I would expect ship to ship weapons have enough power to kill people and even the Civilian blaster should do this. Once you start going up the scale to the larger weapons the disparity will become more evident without a LOT of imposed restrictions.
I would have expected a standard 'no spaceships' restriction for ground warefare but the ships in this clip would suggest otherwise unless it is going to be simple scenic eye candy.

What, you mean the heavy turrets that can't even blow up asteroids? TERRIFYING. They make little white flashes; only the missiles have decent hit effects (which are absurd funny-shaped blast radius things and clearly not pure yield).

The idea of FPS players being able to paricipate in independant PLAYER space corps seems rather unfeasible. I think it is highly likely going to be Militia based warefare where the actions of both space and ground can reasonably interact while being seperated in their own worlds. In which case, I think it might make Faction Warefare interesting but still brings up issues relating to inter-dependance.

Why? More console gamers have voice than PC gamers, after all. I don't see any issue with letting corps have both types of player beyond the barrier to entry it forms in actual new players.

Frankly your sentences are so incoherent I'm not sure I know what the fuck you're trying to say.

[HSRTG]

Seeing that ship go boom in such a massive way leads me to suspect that part of the game will be cut or toned down. Otherwise, whenever the FPS people did something an EVE corp didn't like, the corp could send a cheap frigate or two to nuke the FPS guys. Or leading off a ground campaign by nuking the fuck out of the other side's defenses with a few suicide frigates. Either way, ground defenses stop meaning anything, and any gains made by a ground force could be nullified or reversed very cheaply by a space-bourne corp. Realistic, yes, but not a very fun game.


Of course, they won't make the game like that (DUH DUH), but the trailer made me think that.

[Stark]

Turns out the trailer is just marketing? Next we'll hear that the intro doesn't represent actual gameplay!

The level of interaction Dust players get in corps, markets etc will be interesting. I'd guess 'fuck all' since they're appealing to idiots, but if there's one thing CCCP has no idea how to do it's make a regular FPS.

[Commander 598]

I'm expecting something like a theater shield preventing things like drive by orbital bombardment but still vulnerable in the same way a POS is currently vulnerable to significant and lengthy dread fire. While optional, deploying troops planet side may be faster or at the very least MORE ENTERTAINING than afk sieging towers (Or in this case whatever they're going to call planetary fortifications) for days...to say nothing of what impact it would have on fleet strategy not having your capital ships tied down purging towers from a system.

Also, based on CCP's previous trailers I wouldn't be surprised if it was in fact "in game" regardless of the fact that it's staged and the hud is turned off.

[Stark]

Nobody in EVE is going to give a fuck about 'more entertaining' unless it's more effective or cheaper (or faster, maybe, in situations where you need to down the shield rapidly). I really think 'boarding POS' is a far more useful combat role than 'conquer planet in series of 400m x 400m levels'.

How much it costs to produce the stuff required to push ground combat will be interesting, and I imagine lots of people who get into the industry early are going to make fucktons of money.

[PREDATOR490]

I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa without some element of enforcement and incentive. The people who play consoles and FPS in general are those that want quick, fast paced action which is the completely opposite side of the coin from EVE Online's mind set.
I.E In EVE losses REALLY mean something and it takes time and effort to achieve anything, this kind of mindset will not go so well in an FPS game which provides quick gratification for those with the best twitchy responses.

The information so far indicates that the FPS action will affect 0.0 system control which I imagine will piss off the larger alliances when they have to depend on FPS gamers to hold their systems and devote resources towards that goal. Potentially meaning Corps will have to ship guns and whatever to the FPS players so they can waste it all in 20 minute Battlefront 2142 style matches to people they dont know and wont care who wins. I doubt many console FPS players will be willing to spend several hours on a single map fighting with a death penalty equivelent to that of EVE Online and the space players will quickly get annoyed if all the resources they waste get pissed away by FPS 'lone wolf' idiots.

The two game styles seem largely incompatible and even more so with CCP's current idea of implementing it into 0.0 warefare. Faction Warefare would be much more sensible because it offers a broader scope for battles than forcing the FPS players to rely on the space players to get any action. What are the FPS players going to do between breaks in the 0.0 warefare ?

[Stark]

I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa without some element of enforcement and incentive.

90% of people in any game ever don't like taking orders at all. That's a little bit different from a) being in a corp of people you know and b) having the combat served up as a map/objective combo based on EVE situation.

The people who play consoles and FPS in general are those that want quick, fast paced action which is the completely opposite side of the coin from EVE Online's mind set.

Are you serious?

I.E In EVE losses REALLY mean something and it takes time and effort to achieve anything, this kind of mindset will not go so well in an FPS game which provides quick gratification for those with the best twitchy responses.

Turns out this game will be a respawning, objective-and-ticket based control fight where the money has already been spent, and not a spaceship game about trading and ganking. Who knew?

PS, 'quick gratification', roffle. PC nazis are so fucking stupid/funny it's awesome. TWITCHY RESPONSES! Nothing in EVE is ever quick (ganking lol) and doesn't reward speed (pvp lol)

The information so far indicates that the FPS action will affect 0.0 system control which I imagine will piss off the larger alliances when they have to depend on FPS gamers to hold their systems and devote resources towards that goal.

I thought you said it was console gamers who don't like cooperating. Is it PC gamers now?

Potentially meaning Corps will have to ship guns and whatever to the FPS players so they can waste it all in 20 minute Battlefront 2142 style matches to people they dont know and wont care who wins.

Someone doesn't like the idea of FPS ground battles! Nobody cares in FPS games who wins, especially not if you're a member of a corp/guild/clan, right? LOL!

I doubt many console FPS players will be willing to spend several hours on a single map fighting with a death penalty equivelent to that of EVE Online and the space players will quickly get annoyed if all the resources they waste get pissed away by FPS 'lone wolf' idiots.

You have no idea how the control system will work, do you? Here's a hint - it's not going to be one fucking session hours long, you fucking retard. It's probably going to be the results either of a series of faction battles or a 'tournament'.

The two game styles seem largely incompatible and even more so with CCP's current idea of implementing it into 0.0 warefare. Faction Warefare would be much more sensible because it offers a broader scope for battles than forcing the FPS players to rely on the space players to get any action. What are the FPS players going to do between breaks in the 0.0 warefare ?

I'm not going to disagree that CCCP doing this is probably really stupid, but they've been set on 'ambulation' for years. That said, you really demonstrate how fucking stupid you are here.

WHAT WILL THE PLAYERS DO WHEN THERE ARE NO GROUND BATTLES WAHHHHH.

[wautd]

Just got announced today. Console FPS that will link into the MMO;

Nice. I hope they can find a good balance between innovation and fun because I'd be interesting to see more of the universe from a different angle.

[PREDATOR490]

I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa without some element of enforcement and incentive.

90% of people in any game ever don't like taking orders at all. That's a little bit different from a) being in a corp of people you know and b) having the combat served up as a map/objective combo based on EVE situation.

A)
'People you know', how does that apply when this is supposed to be a new game that opens up an entirely NEW market of players and excludes the old unless they devote to getting into it ?
Some EVE players may have or will get consoles to play but the goal of this new game is to attract NEW players who wont know each other.
It really dosent need to be stated how things will get when you include things like corp spies and tactics used to fuck up matches to get the result in EVE Online.

B)

Based on an EVE situation the console gamers will have little interest in unless it directly affects them or have no understanding for new players. Why is a console gamer going to care if losing the match costs an EVE Alliance an entire system they spent days trying to conquer ?
Having map markers and objectives dosent mean anything if the FPS players have no incentive to complete them. The BF games have these and it dosent stop waves of people who only want to play lone wolf or mess around.
The simple fact is, this game is handing an important aspect of EVE warefare to a completely different genre of gamers and creates a hefty barrier between the two.

I.E In EVE losses REALLY mean something and it takes time and effort to achieve anything, this kind of mindset will not go so well in an FPS game which provides quick gratification for those with the best twitchy responses.

Turns out this game will be a respawning, objective-and-ticket based control fight where the money has already been spent, and not a spaceship game about trading and ganking. Who knew?

PS, 'quick gratification', roffle. PC nazis are so fucking stupid/funny it's awesome. TWITCHY RESPONSES! Nothing in EVE is ever quick (ganking lol) and doesn't reward speed (pvp lol)

A game where the FPS players have nothing to gain or lose equal to that of what the EVE players will. What do the FPS players care if the alliance loses several billions worth of capitals inorder to get the chance at this ground assualt ?
If the FPS players die they just respawn, if they lose the match they can jump to another match somewhere else. They dont have to shoulder the burden of replacing losses and attempting to introduce an aspect of loss is pretty difficult in the FPS game unless they intend to steer more towards Face of Mankind, Anarchy Online etc.
I'm guessing it would be more Face of Mankind by the trailer but that MMO completely tanked and I dont see anything less happening to a CCP MMO that tried the same feat.

The information so far indicates that the FPS action will affect 0.0 system control which I imagine will piss off the larger alliances when they have to depend on FPS gamers to hold their systems and devote resources towards that goal.

I thought you said it was console gamers who don't like cooperating. Is it PC gamers now?

"I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa..."

I said either side would have problems thank you.

Potentially meaning Corps will have to ship guns and whatever to the FPS players so they can waste it all in 20 minute Battlefront 2142 style matches to people they dont know and wont care who wins.

Someone doesn't like the idea of FPS ground battles! Nobody cares in FPS games who wins, especially not if you're a member of a corp/guild/clan, right? LOL!

All corp/guild/clan members care what happens to their group, right ?
Its not like EVE encourages scams, spies stealing etc. and generally fucking over your fellow player, right ?

The vast majority of FPS games measure winning by how many kills you get. Team based FPS are rare and to my knowledge there has never been one that attempts to create a bridge between two seperate game genres. Especially since EVE is supposed to be spreadsheets and unforgiving gameplay compared to the simplistic and risk free style of most FPS games.

I doubt many console FPS players will be willing to spend several hours on a single map fighting with a death penalty equivelent to that of EVE Online and the space players will quickly get annoyed if all the resources they waste get pissed away by FPS 'lone wolf' idiots.

You have no idea how the control system will work, do you? Here's a hint - it's not going to be one fucking session hours long, you fucking retard. It's probably going to be the results either of a series of faction battles or a 'tournament'.

If it is multiple battles for each planet or multiple planets in a system your talking about hours worth of play on the same type of map against the same people regardless of how it is broken up. Nevermind that 'faction battles' or 'Tournaments' will require elements of planning that FPS rarely do and certainly not to the scale that EVE Alliances will expect. Forcing the EVE side to do the leg work for a 20-60 minute battle for the console gamers who could vary from being inert or in a war against dozens of corps across multiple systems depending on the status of the EVE political landscape seems pretty unfair.

[Steel]

If this has any measurable effect on the main eve game then I dont think its going to be possible to overstate how much TKing and general sabotage is going to happen in each map as the corps try to fuck over their opponents.

An interesting mechanic would be that the eve corps would set a reward for a map, and then the winning grunts get the prize. That would mean that supposedly the best corps would get the best players joining their servers as they offer the highest rewards. However, the normalisation between ground and space money would be an issue, as for the price of a 100m starship you would be able to pay 50 grunts for a dozen tanks each and a life of luxury.

[Stark]

I imagine they'll have to have the ability to produce fair matches in unfair battles - as is often the case in wargames - but balancing the cost/performance with utIlty is going to be a big ask, considering the EVE playerbase. Hopefully they won't do anything daft like declare soldier equipment requires new mega rare 0.0 stuff to make, lol.

I'll have to wait till I'm at work to respond to the ignorant genre-and-console bashing post above. Doing quote boxes on a phone is too annoying.

[Stark]

A)
'People you know', how does that apply when this is supposed to be a new game that opens up an entirely NEW market of players and excludes the old unless they devote to getting into it ?
Some EVE players may have or will get consoles to play but the goal of this new game is to attract NEW players who wont know each other.
It really dosent need to be stated how things will get when you include things like corp spies and tactics used to fuck up matches to get the result in EVE Online.

So... this will be the first FPS ever where nobody ever knows anyone? Nobody from EVE is going to double up? Nobody is going to use their friends list functionality? I hope so, because otherwise you look like a fucking idiot.

B)

Based on an EVE situation the console gamers will have little interest in unless it directly affects them or have no understanding for new players. Why is a console gamer going to care if losing the match costs an EVE Alliance an entire system they spent days trying to conquer ?
Having map markers and objectives dosent mean anything if the FPS players have no incentive to complete them. The BF games have these and it dosent stop waves of people who only want to play lone wolf or mess around.

Says who? If the big thrust of the is 'exciting FPS play that impacts on a dynamic world of possiblity', people will care. You show crushing ignorance of multiplayer games later so I'll go into more detail there, but this has ALREADY HAPPENED.

The simple fact is, this game is handing an important aspect of EVE warefare to a completely different genre of gamers and creates a hefty barrier between the two.

Oh sorry, I thought you said 'I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa without some element of enforcement and incentive'. Don't move the goalposts.

A game where the FPS players have nothing to gain or lose equal to that of what the EVE players will. What do the FPS players care if the alliance loses several billions worth of capitals inorder to get the chance at this ground assualt ?

Are you a fucking idiot? You NEVER LOSE ANYTHING IN ANY FPS GAME EVER. People still want to fucking win, beat the opponent, build stats, develop reputation, etc. You have NO IDEA what motivates people to play games do you? How can you even SAY people are going to buy an FPS and play online and not care who wins?

If the FPS players die they just respawn, if they lose the match they can jump to another match somewhere else. They dont have to shoulder the burden of replacing losses and attempting to introduce an aspect of loss is pretty difficult in the FPS game unless they intend to steer more towards Face of Mankind, Anarchy Online etc.

What? They're out to win! If you can't see how things like supply costs are going to figure in to respawns (PS, this was done in BF1942 lol) you're a retard. If they make a character system similar to EVE, the players will even want to spec into cool shit and acquire some. OMG NO LOSS WAAAAH.

I'm guessing it would be more Face of Mankind by the trailer but that MMO completely tanked and I dont see anything less happening to a CCP MMO that tried the same feat.

It stuns me that you're familiar with completely niche shit and yet so totally ignorant of actual modern games.

"I do not imagine console gamers are going to be happy taking orders from players of another game or vice versa..."

I said either side would have problems thank you.

LOL Yeah you're right, it's FPS players who are idiots right? INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!!!

All corp/guild/clan members care what happens to their group, right ?
Its not like EVE encourages scams, spies stealing etc. and generally fucking over your fellow player, right ?

Explain how this is relevant to your ludicrous 'nobody cares who wins' statement.

The vast majority of FPS games measure winning by how many kills you get. Team based FPS are rare and to my knowledge there has never been one that attempts to create a bridge between two seperate game genres. Especially since EVE is supposed to be spreadsheets and unforgiving gameplay compared to the simplistic and risk free style of most FPS games.

You are quite simply talking out your ass. This statement demonstrates you know NOTHING about FPS games.

I hate to break it to you, but ALL THE BIGGEST SELLING FPS FOR YEARS ARE TEAM-BASED. Every FPS since the 90s has had popular team-based modes where scoring isn't from kills. Indeed, the ONLY gametype where scoring comes ONLY from kills in most game is fucking deathmatch.

You may have heard of a game called Counterstrike. Or Halo? UT perhaps. Or Gears of War? Call of Duty? Ring any fucking bells?

You're ignorance digusts me. But I hear FPS players are into instant gratification right? RISK FREE PLAY? Fuck off.

If it is multiple battles for each planet or multiple planets in a system your talking about hours worth of play on the same type of map against the same people regardless of how it is broken up. Nevermind that 'faction battles' or 'Tournaments' will require elements of planning that FPS rarely do and certainly not to the scale that EVE Alliances will expect. Forcing the EVE side to do the leg work for a 20-60 minute battle for the console gamers who could vary from being inert or in a war against dozens of corps across multiple systems depending on the status of the EVE political landscape seems pretty unfair.

Yeah, it's not going to be that. I know we've established you're actually a retard, but try to follow what I'm saying now.

If a battle takes place with x vs y resources in EVE, this can be abstracted into many 10-20m sessions of a regular FPS, with the win/loss ratios, ticket ratios, and available equipment determined by the EVE scenario and somehow affecting the result.

OH SHIT I JUST SOLVED THE PROBLEM USING PLAY STYLES KNOWN SINCE BOARDGAMES.

I just want to quote a single line from in here, to illustrate clearly how bigoted and stupid this guy is.

Nevermind that 'faction battles' or 'Tournaments' will require elements of planning that FPS rarely do...

He seriously just said that.

Case closed.

[PREDATOR490]

I have no intrest in debating over speculation and rumour until more tangible information comes out on the game so I will conceed.

[Mr. Coffee]

Stark wasn't debating you on the game itself so much as your incredible lack of understanding what motivates FPS games (or any gamer for that matter).