U.S. students still behind

[Kodiak]

From CNN

ARLINGTON, Virginia (CNN) -- American children aren't necessarily getting smarter or dumber, but that might not be good enough to compete globally, according to numbers cited Tuesday by Secretary of Education Arne Duncan.

He noted a special analysis put out last week by the National Center for Education Statistics that compares 15-year-old U.S. students with students from other countries in the Organization for Economic Development.

It found the U.S. students placed below average in math and science. In math, U.S. high schoolers were in the bottom quarter of the countries that participated, trailing countries including Finland, China and Estonia.

According to the report, the U.S. math scores were not measurably different in 2006 from the previous scores in 2003. But while other countries have improved, the United States has remained stagnant.

In science, the United States falls behind countries such as Canada, Japan and the Czech Republic.

Duncan told a room full of science and math experts of the National Science Board on Tuesday morning that this will hurt the United States as it competes internationally. "We are lagging the rest of the world, and we are lagging it in pretty substantial ways," he said.

"I think we have become complacent. We've sort of lost our way."

He acknowledged that in some areas of the United States it is hard to find good math and science teachers. To solve that problem, he said, "I think we should pay math and science teachers a lot more money. We pay everybody the same. We have areas of critical need -- math, science, foreign language, special education in some places. I think we need to pay a premium for that."

The National Education Association, which represents teachers, argues against such a proposal.

"Simply being a teacher of a hard-to-staff subject does not equate with effective instruction, and therefore, should not be rewarded in-and-of-itself through a salary differential," the organization says in a position statement.

The fourth- and eighth-graders who were part of the mathematics testing have improved their average scores compared with their European counterparts, but they still lag behind their Asian peers in China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea and Singapore.

In science, fourth-graders have fallen behind other students even though their average scores remained about the same. The eighth-graders' scores remain about the same compared to 1995.

"It has huge implications," Duncan said. "I think as a real economic imperative we have to educate our way to a better economy."

In the private sector persons with specialized or hard-to-find skillsets command a premium salary, yet a person with a credential and degree to teach PE gets the same salary as a physics teacher (sometimes more if they're a sports team advisor). Is it right for science teachers to be paid more for a skill that's critically needed? I'm inclined to say yes, with a caveat that their performance be regularly monitored.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The problem is, single-subject credentials (in california) aren't as limiting as you might think. I'll be getting a credential in sciences, but if I get hired I can expect to also teach math and even P.E. Likewise, someone with an english degree can be asked by their school to teach science or math. Of course, being as how I'm becoming a teacher, I'd love to get paid more.

[Stark]

This is what happens when you take God out of schools.

[Uraniun235]

The problem is, single-subject credentials (in california) aren't as limiting as you might think. I'll be getting a credential in sciences, but if I get hired I can expect to also teach math and even P.E. Likewise, someone with an english degree can be asked by their school to teach science or math. Of course, being as how I'm becoming a teacher, I'd love to get paid more.

Woah, wait, what? You guys don't have proficiency endorsements or whatever the hell it's called?

Here in Oregon I think high school teachers have to be able to demonstrate that they're qualified to teach a certain subject, I'm pretty sure you can't just get assigned math or science classes when all you've got is a bachelor's in English and a master's in Education.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The problem is, single-subject credentials (in california) aren't as limiting as you might think. I'll be getting a credential in sciences, but if I get hired I can expect to also teach math and even P.E. Likewise, someone with an english degree can be asked by their school to teach science or math. Of course, being as how I'm becoming a teacher, I'd love to get paid more.

Woah, wait, what? You guys don't have proficiency endorsements or whatever the hell it's called?

Here in Oregon I think high school teachers have to be able to demonstrate that they're qualified to teach a certain subject, I'm pretty sure you can't just get assigned math or science classes when all you've got is a bachelor's in English and a master's in Education.

I will have what is called a 'single subject credential'. To get that in California, theoretically I have to have a bachelor's degree in something. Then, I pass a series of what are called 'CSET' tests to confirm my mastery of the subject. With the tests I am taking, I am angling to have a credential that reads 'Single Subject: Earth Science', and I may also pick up a secondary specialization in physics or math. After that, I will be in a 'credentialing program' for about a year, during which time I will work/teach full time as an intern with my own classrom. However, this doesn't limit what I can teach, it only makes it very unlikely that I would be allowed to teach history or english.

[Questor]

I will have what is called a 'single subject credential'. To get that in California, theoretically I have to have a bachelor's degree in something. Then, I pass a series of what are called 'CSET' tests to confirm my mastery of the subject. With the tests I am taking, I am angling to have a credential that reads 'Single Subject: Earth Science', and I may also pick up a secondary specialization in physics or math. After that, I will be in a 'credentialing program' for about a year, during which time I will work/teach full time as an intern with my own classrom. However, this doesn't limit what I can teach, it only makes it very unlikely that I would be allowed to teach history or english.

The other side of this is that the school district has to notify the parents of the students who are in classes without a "highly-qualified teacher." Good school districts will strive to have truly qualified teachers, but when the seniority system gets brought into the mix, especially when you can't throw around the highly qualified thing, people often teach out of their area.

[Kodiak]

The other side of this is that the school district has to notify the parents of the students who are in classes without a "highly-qualified teacher." Good school districts will strive to have truly qualified teachers, but when the seniority system gets brought into the mix, especially when you can't throw around the highly qualified thing, people often teach out of their area.

There's no such thing as that in California, and the teacher's union would pitch a hissy fit if someone dared to call them less than "highly qualified"- even if it was a subject they were teaching for the first time.

[Questor]

There's no such thing as that in California, and the teacher's union would pitch a hissy fit if someone dared to call them less than "highly qualified"- even if it was a subject they were teaching for the first time.

Unless there's been a change to the supremacy of federal law, there is. NCLB

And yes, the teachers unions did pitch a hissy fit.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I didn't know about the 'unqualified teacher' thing. Gives me some hope.

[Master of Cards]

Here in Missouri Physics and Calc 1 teachers are treated like gold, they make a lot more then baseline teachers AND they have job security because they're so rare that they get picked up as soon as possible.

[Skylon]

I will have what is called a 'single subject credential'. To get that in California, theoretically I have to have a bachelor's degree in something. Then, I pass a series of what are called 'CSET' tests to confirm my mastery of the subject. With the tests I am taking, I am angling to have a credential that reads 'Single Subject: Earth Science', and I may also pick up a secondary specialization in physics or math. After that, I will be in a 'credentialing program' for about a year, during which time I will work/teach full time as an intern with my own classrom. However, this doesn't limit what I can teach, it only makes it very unlikely that I would be allowed to teach history or english.

In New York state you can teach ONE period outside your subject area. In my building this is usually utilized to have a Math teacher, teach one special-ed Math class (you technically need special education credentials to do so). My 12th Grade Social Studies teacher told us the City school he started in used this loop hole to have him teach a period of Art.

There's no such thing as that in California, and the teacher's union would pitch a hissy fit if someone dared to call them less than "highly qualified"- even if it was a subject they were teaching for the first time.

In NYS you are ranked as "highly qualified" when you have a certain number of years teaching the course. You're qualified with the proper degrees...you become "highly qualified" with experience.