Finnish businessmen want Karelia back from Russia

[Tiriol]

Meanwhile, in Finland: a bunch of looney businessmen try to pressure Russia over a gas pipeline to get the lost territories of Karelia returned to Finland. Reported by YLE News.

Finnish Businessmen Using Pipeline as Leverage in Karelia Question

The Chairman of the Finnish Karelian League, Parliamentarian Markku Laukkanen has dismissed reported efforts by four Finnish businessmen to exchange a mining claim for the return of lands ceded to the Soviet Union after the last war.

A group of Finnish businessmen are using Russian plans for an undersea natural gas pipeline from Russia to Germany as a bargaining chip in international politics. The businessmen say that they have been offered large sums of money to drop a mining claim for an area on the bottom of the Gulf of Finland, which lies on the planned route of the pipeline. The claim has been pending for a year.

Pekka Suomela, Senior Inspector responsible for mining at the Ministry of Employment and the Economy, sees the application by the group of four businessmen as a “unusual to say the least”.

Kari Silvennoinen, the lawyer of the applicants, says that the Russians, worried about a delay in the pipeline project, had contacted the group about a week ago, offering large sums of money in exchange for dropping the mining claim.

“Pipeline for Karelia”

The businessmen have rejected the money, but have offered Russian officials a proposal under which they would drop the claim if Russia agrees to start talks with Finland on the return of areas annexed by the Soviet Union after the last war.

At the Ministry of Employment and the Economy, Pekka Suomela, does not want to comment on the unusual mining claim, but says that Russian officials have asked for information about the application from the ministry as well.

Nord Stream: No Information on Bargaining

Nord Stream, the mainly Russian-owned company behind the pipeline project, hopes to start work on the pipeline early next year.

Nord Stream spokesman Sebastian Sass says he knows nothing about the issue, and he does not see the mining claim as an impediment to the pipeline project.

Finnish Karelian League Keeps Distance

The Chairman of the Finnish Karelian League, Parliamentarian Markku Laukkanen has dismissed reported efforts by four Finnish businessmen to exchange a mining claim for the return of lands ceded to the Soviet Union after the last war. Writing in the internet version of the newspaper Suomenmaa, he added the League had not connection with the businessmen's dealings.

YLE

This is... hilarious, in a sad and demented way. There is no way that Russia would cede control over Karelia over any economic situation or pressure, unless there would be an effective civil war going on (and something tells me that there isn't). My prediction is that the Russian authorities will tell these men to shove their demands where the sun shineth not; and finally, after a lot of chest-thumping, the men in question will quietly accept a suitably large amount of money.

If the news is true and not just some crazy hoax, an early/badly delayed April fools' joke or something.

[Uraniun235]

and finally, after a lot of chest-thumping, the men in question will quietly accept a suitably large amount of money.

Are you sure this isn't just a get-rich scheme?

[Serafina]

Clearly, we need another winter war....

Seriously, how many finish people do even care about Karelia? Is it a common feeling that this is stolen territory, or are there only a few lunatics that want to bring it "back to the Reich"?

[Tiriol]

Clearly, we need another winter war....

Seriously, how many finish people do even care about Karelia? Is it a common feeling that this is stolen territory, or are there only a few lunatics that want to bring it "back to the Reich"?

The common feeling may be that it is indeed "stolen" territory, lost thanks to war largely manufactured by two belligerent nations. But most are content with how the things currently are, since it has been so long when we lost Karelia to the Soviet forces and while a historical tragedy for our nation, it is a "historical" one, as in past tense. There is a pro-Karelia movement, but as far as I'm aware they wish to buy Karelia back, if it's at all possible, one piece at a time: they have no desire to enter a shouting match with Russia.

Apparently these gentlemen think that the best way to get Karelia back, no matter the economic consequences of suddenly gaining a large, underdeveloped territory with over 300 0000 people in it, is to blackmail Russia. Whether they actually even have those mining rights is another question entirely.

[Sea Skimmer]

Finland might some day be able to buy back access to Barents Sea, but they’d never get back all of Karelia simply because that’d imperil Zapadnaya Litsa.

[Spoonist]

The prokarelians are quite a loud minority opinion in finland. Most nationalistic and conservative fins have the opinion that it should be returned, but are quite aware of the realpolitics involved. Some of them feel that it is a snub that russia never agrees on starting negotiations even if they lead to nothing.
http://www.prokarelia.net/en/
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5046507611
http://www.karjalanliitto.fi/english
It used to be on the agenda on the kalevala society but nowadays has been removed not to hurt the feelings of the russians.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Protip to Finns: You already tried to retake that stolen territory once. Stalin let you off pretty easy for that.

[Edi]

The majority of Finns would like to see Karelia returned and the preference is that it should be returned as empty as it was when the Soviets took it. Aside from the most rabid fools, however, everyone realizes that the return is not on the cards in any way, shape or form, so we just live with it.

Given that 400,000 Finns left the annexed Karelian territories to go into internal exile, there's a lot of people with Karelian roots floating around everywhere in this country. Both sides of my family, for example.

[His Divine Shadow]

Getting karelia back now would be like getting someone elses problem.

[CJvR]

Didn't Jeltsin offer to sell it back?
IIRC the Fins didn't think it was worth even the low asking price.
After the German experience with the DDR fiasco I doubt any europeean nation would be eager to absorb parts of the old Soviet meltown where time more or less stopped in the 50'ies.

[Serafina]

Didn't Jeltsin offer to sell it back?
IIRC the Fins didn't think it was worth even the low asking price.
After the German experience with the DDR fiasco I doubt any europeean nation would be eager to absorb parts of the old Soviet meltown where time more or less stopped in the 50'ies.

Expect that the scale would be totally different. While the former DDR is about 20% of Germany by inhabitants, Karelia would only be about 0.3% of Finland.

[Surlethe]

I wonder if the Russian and Finnish governments could enter into wink-wink, nudge-nudge "talks" over Karelia to mollify their demands so that Russia can get off without paying anything. It seems that something like this would quite embarrass the Finnish government.

[His Divine Shadow]

That's some strange math there. 300,000 people would be 6% of finlands population.

5,000,000 - 100%
1,500,000 - 30%
300,000 - 6%
150,000 - 3%
15,000 - 0.3%

It'd be like getting a new minority group as large as the swedish speaking finns. Not to mention all the infrastructure that would needed to be brought up to scratch. And that's just the tip of the ice berg.

The only way Finland would accept Carelia back is if it's depopulated first, then we could use it for logging or scenery.

[CJvR]

The Karelians were fortunate to have a nation left to flee to so they didn't have to experience Soviet hospitality like the unfortunate Balts.
Karelia before the war was home to 10% of Finland's population and Viborg was Finlands second city before the invasion so it is hardly surprising that the subject pop up now and then.

[Serafina]

Oh, damn, of course His Divine Shadow is right...i totally screwed up that calculation.

But i think my point is still valid - 6% is still way less than 20%.
Also, Karelia is propably not as dependet on industry as the GDR was. Which means that less companies will go down due to increased competition and safety standards.