Join the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist League

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-09 09:07pm

Absolutely nothing...

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-02-10 08:11am

That bothers me to no end. We evolved here, we are part of the natural world.
As a matter of fact, I believe we may be fuelling the biggest evolutionary changes seen in millions of years. This is unnatural?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-10 08:36am

Some people fail to see the necessity of the natural food chain for the welfare of the ecosystem and the wildlife herd.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-02-10 05:20pm

Got it in! I was just barely able to fit it in.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-10 06:16pm

Knife wrote:Large quote, small question. What, exactly, is unnatual about humans?

Ontop of that, what is unnatual about using the enviroment as tools?

Small answer, Knife, is that if humans create and manage a system, it is artificial.

This includes management of ferral and wild populations, which NF_U implies he obtains most of his nutrition from, just as much as large deforested areas used to feed herds of aniamls that have been domesticated and artificially selected.

The real question should be, given the expensive tissue hypothesis is just as valid for high-quality processed vegetables as for meat, what is unnatural about choosing not to eat meat?

and AP, er.. what?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-10 06:21pm

What if humans JUST manage the system? By manage, I mean set laws to keep un-ethical hunters from taking too much game. When doing this, they do not eat the game, they will just take the trophy. But, as I said, that is just to keep poachers from taking too much of what they don't need. Those laws wouldn't be necessary if people would only take what they would eat, as do other animals. So, yes, that would be natural.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-10 06:56pm

Maybe. But you can't successfully feed the human population, even of a realtively localised area, of a developed country on that. How is it more natural than gathering?

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-02-10 07:02pm

Innerbrat, everything I said wasn't meant for you but I didn't feel like going out and quoting the other people.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-10 07:05pm

AP, OK, I just had no idea whatsoever who you were talking to with that last one, or what it referred to

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-02-10 07:09pm

Yeah, my bad

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-10 07:22pm

innerbrat wrote:Maybe. But you can't successfully feed the human population, even of a realtively localised area, of a developed country on that. How is it more natural than gathering?

It isn't...

That is the reason Humans are omnivores. We can eat survive off either meat or vegetable matter, but, we only survive. We thrive when we eat a balanced diet of both.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-10 07:32pm

NF_Utvol wrote:
innerbrat wrote:Maybe. But you can't successfully feed the human population, even of a realtively localised area, of a developed country on that. How is it more natural than gathering?
It isn't...

That is the reason Humans are omnivores. We can eat survive off either meat or vegetable matter, but, we only survive. We thrive when we eat a balanced diet of both.

Hmmm... meat can be safely and easily substituted, IMO, but that's beside the point
So we just had a page long debate about something we very nearly agree on?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-10 08:21pm

Yeah, more funner that way, lol.

3 years of college English and that is how I write...

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 01:09am

No more recruits to the APAFL?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-02-11 10:07am

NF_Utvol wrote:No more recruits to the APAFL?

I've been considering whether I should join, because I'm too lazy to go debunk the PETA if they come to this forum. However, if the club is about heckling the PETA's press statements and criticizing their generally weird behaviour, then count me in.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 11:03am

Yup, the general heckling and un-creativie criticism of them is part of it, lol.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-02-11 11:53am

NF_Utvol wrote:Yup, the general heckling and un-creativie criticism of them is part of it, lol.

PART of it?? Do I have to do anything else??

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-11 12:08pm

innerbrat wrote:
Knife wrote:Large quote, small question. What, exactly, is unnatual about humans?

Ontop of that, what is unnatual about using the enviroment as tools?
Small answer, Knife, is that if humans create and manage a system, it is artificial.

This includes management of ferral and wild populations, which NF_U implies he obtains most of his nutrition from, just as much as large deforested areas used to feed herds of aniamls that have been domesticated and artificially selected.

The real question should be, given the expensive tissue hypothesis is just as valid for high-quality processed vegetables as for meat, what is unnatural about choosing not to eat meat?

and AP, er.. what?

Call me kooky, but don't alot of animal "manage" their enviroment on one level or another. This in not unnatual, it is as natural as one can get. Classic example, beavers. They "disrupt" "natural" flow of rivers streams by building obstructions in them. Are they unnatural? All sorts of rodents dig massive underground tunnel networks in the ground. Is this unnatural? Every species effects the enviroment is some way, and you can make the argument that we effect it, not only badly but more than any other critter but it is not unnatural.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 12:20pm

So, just because chimpanzees use tools to get ants instead of just using their fingers, that would also make them un-natural...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-11 12:38pm

NF_Utvol wrote:So, just because chimpanzees use tools to get ants instead of just using their fingers, that would also make them un-natural...

That is my interpitation of what she said. I disagree with it if it is her position. Calling humans and human nature "unnatural" is self righteous IMO. We are every bit apart of the natural world as any other animal.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 12:40pm

Yup, we can't help it that we were created/evolved/intelligently designed (whichever way you might think

) that way.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-11 01:28pm

Knife: you're kooky

Seriously, I was originally replying to a post claiming vegetarianism was unnatural - I was trying to point out how stupid that PoV was...

But, in purely semantic sense, if humans make something, it's artificial, by definition - note the difference between Natural Selection and Artifical Selection.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 01:43pm

I have no problem with vegetarianism. In fact, I have friends who are vegetarians (you should see the looks on some peoples faces when she orders 'cheeseburger, hold the burger'). But, I am not a vegetarian, and I really don't have any plans to become one. And I sure as heck don't want some whack job in PETA trying to tell me I can't eat beef or go deer hunting.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-11 08:34pm

Is there any way we can get this as an official usergroup?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-02-11 10:04pm

Well today 900 lambs were sacrificed at the end of the ramadan on the south shore of Montreal,i would`nt be surprise to see PETA jerks telling muslims to stop this ritual and eat cabbage instead.