Moron's and Shuttle Debris
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Moron's and Shuttle Debris
Im debating some guy who claims the gov't has no right to prevent him from selling shuttle debris. Of course I find this unacceptable. He keeps trying to make his own definitions to suit his debate. Is there some name for this technique or fallacy? The stuff in italics is him, bold is me. I edited some commments for clarity.
Yes, and what incentive, besides the gun, are they [fed govt]
using to get it [shuttle debris] back?
Irrelevant. No incentive is required to expect compliance with the law.
Federal law says is it [the shuttle] is private property. Federal law says you cant tamper with a crash site.
Who says? If you consider space like the sea, then any
abandon wrecks become property of the salvage company!
Space is not like sea so the comparsion is invalid. And the crash happend over land anyway. Even if it is was sea the key word is ABANDONED. The shuttle is not abandoned, you cant claim it as salvage.
>I guess Shuttle Debris might be considered like
>currency. Yes, it is government property, and they will >put me in jail if I deface it, but I don't want to own
>it, just use it!
So you admit it is govt property? Odd, how you want to rationalize selling something that does not belong to you?
The problem with that argument is that governments are not people and should not be afforded the same rights. Most governments think they are Robin Hoods - they take from the producers and give to the non-producers.
So they point a gun at my head, take my the fruits of my labor from me and build a rocket, crash it through my roof and point a gun at me to get back the junk it produced. As a tax payer, the property does belong to me.
> The shuttle is not abandoned, you cant claim it as salvage.
If no one comes looking for it specifically in my building, then it is abandoned.
Yes, and what incentive, besides the gun, are they [fed govt]
using to get it [shuttle debris] back?
Irrelevant. No incentive is required to expect compliance with the law.
Federal law says is it [the shuttle] is private property. Federal law says you cant tamper with a crash site.
Who says? If you consider space like the sea, then any
abandon wrecks become property of the salvage company!
Space is not like sea so the comparsion is invalid. And the crash happend over land anyway. Even if it is was sea the key word is ABANDONED. The shuttle is not abandoned, you cant claim it as salvage.
>I guess Shuttle Debris might be considered like
>currency. Yes, it is government property, and they will >put me in jail if I deface it, but I don't want to own
>it, just use it!
So you admit it is govt property? Odd, how you want to rationalize selling something that does not belong to you?
The problem with that argument is that governments are not people and should not be afforded the same rights. Most governments think they are Robin Hoods - they take from the producers and give to the non-producers.
So they point a gun at my head, take my the fruits of my labor from me and build a rocket, crash it through my roof and point a gun at me to get back the junk it produced. As a tax payer, the property does belong to me.
> The shuttle is not abandoned, you cant claim it as salvage.
If no one comes looking for it specifically in my building, then it is abandoned.
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I think Mike identified this style somewhere on his site. Not sure about that, though.
Off-hand, I'd call it the guerilla defense. He seems to be making everything up as he goes along.
Off-hand, I'd call it the guerilla defense. He seems to be making everything up as he goes along.
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The government has the right to eminent domain. That means that the government CAN take any property that they wish, so long as they give the owners "just compensation" (a constitutionally guaranteed right). In this case, his only recourse would be to sue the government claiming that they had violated his consitutional right, and seek compensation, but since NASA has already established its right to reclaim their property it would be virtually impossible to win a settlement. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.
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Well, its already illegal to tamper with a crash investigation. I think that is pretty close. It is the same wether it is an airliner or the shuttle.Frank Hipper wrote:Would it be possible to charge these asshole with withholding evidence for an ongoing investigation? Even if it's some irrelevant bit of insulation fluff, I'd charge them just on principle. They're fucking ghouls, man.
It angers me they try to rationalize profiting off the deaths of others, just because he has a personal beef with the govt.
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Re: Moron's and Shuttle Debris
How does the use of coercion invalidate federal laws? The laws against threatening the president are enforced with the gun too; would he care to test them?Idiot wrote:Yes, and what incentive, besides the gun, are they [fed govt] using to get it [shuttle debris] back?
By his rationale of claiming that anything is abandoned when its occupants die, it's OK to plunder a fatal car crash for wallets and jewellery. What a fucking asshole.Idiot wrote:Who says? If you consider space like the sea, then any abandon wrecks become property of the salvage company!
Actually, the act of selling something requires prior ownership. Yet again, this person demonstrates that he has the IQ of salmon.Idiot wrote:I guess Shuttle Debris might be considered like currency. Yes, it is government property, and they will >put me in jail if I deface it, but I don't want to own it, just use it!
As a taxpayer, everything the government makes belongs to him? Please ask him to march onto the nearest military base and try to steal one of the vehicles in order to demonstrate this sense of ownership. I would be amused to see what happens to him.Idiot wrote:The problem with that argument is that governments are not people and should not be afforded the same rights. Most governments think they are Robin Hoods - they take from the producers and give to the non-producers.
So they point a gun at my head, take my the fruits of my labor from me and build a rocket, crash it through my roof and point a gun at me to get back the junk it produced. As a tax payer, the property does belong to me.
By his "logic", a lost child is "abandoned" because the parents aren't likely to know where he is and come looking for him, so it would be OK to sell the child to the highest bidder. Can someone please beat some sense into this asshole?Idiot wrote:If no one comes looking for it specifically in my building, then it is abandoned.
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Ive been trying to point out his idiocy, but I cant rip like we do on this page. Some of his other comments in the thread are pure idiocy. Here is one:Can someone please beat some sense into this asshole?
What right does the government have to fine me for picking up and claiming garbage that they have strewn on my property and perhaps nearly killing me in the process? What would the likelihood be of getting the Feds to pay for the damage? If the wreckage is so valuable why don't they pay for it like they paid for the cooperation of Afghani war lords?
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His entire argument falls apart given the fact that the FAA and NAsa have basically declared a swath of the country from California to Texas to be a 'crash site'. Touching or moving ANY piece of debris is now a federal crime since you are both hindering an investigation and evidence tampering.
If you can, contact the FBI and see if they would be interested in doing an IP trace on this asshole , if he really has as a piece of Columbia debris, I want to see him rot.....
If you can, contact the FBI and see if they would be interested in doing an IP trace on this asshole , if he really has as a piece of Columbia debris, I want to see him rot.....
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Uh...you mean it's not ok to plunder fatal car crashes?...it's OK to plunder a fatal car crash for wallets and jewellery. What a fucking asshole.
....
Not like I can give it back...
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I am Chinese...Korvan wrote:Committing a federal offence is stupid enough, but admitting it on a public forum? That would be like me confessing to illegally possessing piece of the Great Wall of China.
Which I don't.
Really.
Please don't tell the Chinese.
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As for the bitch above, doesn't he realized that the debri is still owned by Nasa no matter what form it is? No wait never mind....never mind.....this guy's an idiot.
Can't wait to hear about him in a newspaper.
Cyaround,
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