SDN Wars: A Galaxy Divided: OOC

[Thanas]

Just a heads up all my ships have a designator and a name much like modern US warships. My system is pretty easy first two letters are ship role the third letter is ship class and the numbering starts from first fleet. For example the flagship of 1st Fleet is an Allegiance-class stardestroyer so it would be CSA-01. Command Ship, Allegiance 1st ship of the class. Whereas the Venator in 3rd Fleet would be FCV-03, Fleet Carrier Venator 3rd ship of the class. The ISDII at Alsakan would be HCI-01 and 02 for Heavy Cruiser Imperial 1st and 2nd ships of the class while the one at Mechis III would be HCI-09 since it's the 9th ship of the class.

Use the custom if you want ingame, but please always name the class name as well. It would be too hard for me to keep track of forces otherwise.

[Kartr_Kana]

I generally put an OOC note at the bottom of the section a ship is in detailing which classes and how many of each were present at whatever action.

I just posted this in case anyone was wondering what the alpha numeric strings stood for.

[Thanas]

^Ah, ok, that is certainly ok.

Furthermore, guys, speaking as a mod here:

When you have your characters acting, remember one thing - would it be reasonable that they act this way? For example, if you are playing a faction and advertise its capabilities, ask yourself two things: a) did the baseline faction have that capability and b) could your nation have gained this capability in two years?

When in doubt, ask a mod. That is what we are here for.



Also: I shall respond to any IC post tomorrow, now I have to go to sleep.

[Thirdfain]

Thirdfain, you're trying to start an interesting cold-war plotline, and I can respect that. Unfortunately, cold wars only work between parties on roughly-equal strenght; the CORE Alliance has five time yours and will not hesitate to use it. A little tact, therefore, would seem in order - That is to say, stop demanding that the Remnant give up Coruscant to you, or they just might take offense.

Since it seems my harsh language is not going to actually inspire a military response, I'll have to disagree with your assertion. It seems like absolute assholery has served me in reasonably good stead.

Keep in mind that a HOT war requires a faction willing to commit itself to open combat, which under these circumstances I don't think will happen. At least not yet...

[Master_Baerne]

Thirdfain, you're trying to start an interesting cold-war plotline, and I can respect that. Unfortunately, cold wars only work between parties on roughly-equal strenght; the CORE Alliance has five time yours and will not hesitate to use it. A little tact, therefore, would seem in order - That is to say, stop demanding that the Remnant give up Coruscant to you, or they just might take offense.

Since it seems my harsh language is not going to actually inspire a military response, I'll have to disagree with your assertion. It seems like absolute assholery has served me in reasonably good stead.

Keep in mind that a HOT war requires a faction willing to commit itself to open combat, which under these circumstances I don't think will happen. At least not yet...

Just remember that the only CORE members you've talked to so far are the Bakurans, who take a noticably less hard line on things like demanding sovereigty over other people's planets than do, say, the Manticoran Imperials, or the Corellians.

In any case, shadow wars are in order, no matter what happens on the broader front.

[Thirdfain]

Just remember that the only CORE members you've talked to so far are the Bakurans, who take a noticably less hard line on things like demanding sovereigty over other people's planets than do, say, the Manticoran Imperials, or the Corellians.

In any case, shadow wars are in order, no matter what happens on the broader front.

Oh, boy are they. I just hope there are actually some Republic factions left. I must admit, learning Coyote has dropped out is very distressing for me.

[Master_Baerne]

Just remember that the only CORE members you've talked to so far are the Bakurans, who take a noticably less hard line on things like demanding sovereigty over other people's planets than do, say, the Manticoran Imperials, or the Corellians.

In any case, shadow wars are in order, no matter what happens on the broader front.

Oh, boy are they. I just hope there are actually some Republic factions left. I must admit, learning Coyote has dropped out is very distressing for me.

Heh. Evil will win, because Good is less fun to play.

[Karmic Knight]

Heh. Evil will win, because Good is less fun to play. :)

Bah, good and evil are no match for having a pragmatic adjustable goal.

[Thirdfain]

Heh. Evil will win, because Good is less fun to play.

I hope to make a liar of you sir! Or more precisely, to play the good side evilly.

[Master_Baerne]

And I hope to ensure that the New Republic remains no more than a footnote in the book of history. We'll have to see how this turns out, methinks...

[Thirdfain]

I think there's something subtly awesome about the New Republic, even in the unreadable morass that is the EU. What does the Empire have? Style. Efficiency. Order. Sexy uniforms. Sexier war machines. They've got the Hitlerite sense of martial grandeur and nationalist efficiency down to the t. It's romantic, it's impressive, it's powerful. The New Republic is a bunch of squabbling, self-righteous, self serving bureaucrats who have no enemy worse than themselves. But that's what's so great about them. They seem to me to be very real. A great representation of what real politics look like. Real war machines and authoritarian superstates aren't cool. They're destructive and usually just as internally riven and squabbling as decaying republics. They just do a better job of hiding it. That's what I think makes the New Republic so cool. They seem more *real* and their weaknesses and problems ring more true than those gents in the nifty grey uniforms with their awesome theme song and unstoppable legions.

In other words, bring it on!

[Master_Baerne]

Certainly. It's important to bear in mind that, while dictatorial war-mongering regimes are unrealistic, they certainly are effective in Star Wars.

Also, the ability to say "Surrender or be destroyed, by order of the Emperor!" makes up for a very great deal.

[Thirdfain]

Certainly. It's important to bear in mind that, while dictatorial war-mongering regimes are unrealistic, they certainly are effective in Star Wars.

Also, the ability to say "Surrender or be destroyed, by order of the Emperor!" makes up for a very great deal.

It's much better than "Please submit an application for Cession of Hostilities and Re-Assessment of Relations, Form 13022-G to the Senate Tertiary Subcommittee for the Processing of Post-Hostility Paperwork, or face a possible Department of Defense mandated Cleansing Protocol! Or a hefty fine!"

[Master_Baerne]

My point exactly. We have a Ministry of War, the way nations are meant to!

[Thanas]

Just remember that the only CORE members you've talked to so far are the Bakurans, who take a noticably less hard line on things like demanding sovereigty over other people's planets than do, say, the Manticoran Imperials, or the Corellians.

In any case, shadow wars are in order, no matter what happens on the broader front.

Oh, boy are they. I just hope there are actually some Republic factions left. I must admit, learning Coyote has dropped out is very distressing for me.

Coyote had signed a treaty of non-aggression and we are in the process of signing an alliance. His Queen has taken quite a liking to Captison. So your chances are a bit slim there.

Also, he has not dropped out, he is just inactive. Lots of players do that when RL demands set in.



EDIT: Thirdfain, the ball is in your court.

[Mr Bean]

Damn real life
Anyway, the worst thing Thirdfain you have going for is the simple hyper-spartinial navigation. Without some allies there is always the option to simply punish you. It does not take that long to send a fleet of Star Destroyer's, wreck all the shit in one of your five systems then fall back. It would not be hard for the five systems of the Core to put together a 500 point fleet of star destroyer's and escorts to smash any one of your three average worlds. All of which are some distance from each other.

Heck if this was a full campaign we could easily strip away 1200 points worth between everyone and simply launch three 400 point fleet attacks on all your average worlds. If you offer combat in a major way by combing two of your task forces, your still going to hurt. Worse if the fleet simply engages you then runs. You've taken some damage and while your two fleets are tied down your other worlds get smashed.

Fast forward a few months even if you retained your fleet, your star docks have been shot up, your resupply bases are gone and your down a number of ships. And your in no position to begin rebuilding your fleet. Without at least two allies willing to lend you some aid. Any campaign would be a short and violent one. Even worse you might not lose a ship but have all your planets reduced to minor when you move to engage one fleet only to have the second roll in and clean the planet of orbitals and ground defenses.

[Thanas]

^Well, we currently cannot crack the shields on his major and homeworlds. But his average worlds would be easy prey, yes.

[Mr Bean]

^Well, we currently cannot crack the shields on his major and homeworlds. But his average worlds would be easy prey, yes.

Shields don't protect his orbitals, which was my point. It's kinda hard to raise a new fleet to replace the once you lost when you take out whatever merchant shipping in system, smash every satellite around all his worlds. Even if the planetary shields let him hunker down and leave the world's untouched, he's going to serious feel the lose of all those support facilities and repair-yards

[Thanas]

That is certainly true, orbital shipyards are not protected by shields. However, we would face some planetary battery fire. But we can take those losses, he cannot.

[Siege]

In the light of two additional trade pacts signed that weren't anticipated, I've slightly revised my balance sheet for the first game-year:

GORDIAN DOMINION BALANCE SHEET

ST. POINTS: 2,000
TRADE PACTS: 9 x 25
TOTAL: 2225

UPKEEP
21 to stations
370 to ships
TOTAL: 391

SHIPYARD CONSTRUCTION
1x 2200m @ Tiss'Sharl (400 pts)
2x 1600m @ Korriban & Tiss'Sharl (520 pts)
TOTAL: 920

PLANETARY IMPROVEMENT
4x trade pact on Yavin 4 (minor to average)*
3x trade pact on Sivvi +500pts (minor to average)*
TOTAL: 500

SHIP CONSTRUCTION
8x Class-II Frigate (48 pts)**
11x TIE Interceptor (22 pts)
10x TIE Bomber (20 pts)
TOTAL: 90

TROOPS
2x Sith Commando Company (2x 100 troops) (20 pts)
4x heavy infantry division (24 pts)
2x repulsorlift division (14 pts)
2x heavy division (18 pts)
TOTAL: 76

FORCE
2x Jedi Knight (30 pts)
TOTAL: 30

TOTAL SPENT: 2007

BANK: 218

NOTES:
* These planetary improvements will take four years to complete.
** Only four of these ships will be finished in the first game-year. The limited number of available shipyards means that the last four will only be completed six months into the second year of the game.


Modifications are minimal, the extra income is spent on two heavy divisions and two Jedi Knights (or Sith Lords, as the case will be). I have made no changes to planetary improvement or shipbuilding.

[Thanas]

Eh - if anybody has work that takes more than one year to complete, please note it in your budget. Sorry to be anal about this, but it makes it vastly easier to check. For example, Siege's planetary improvements will take 4 years to be completed.

[Siege]

That's a good idea -- I've added a notes section detailing the multi-year bits on the balance sheet.

[Thirdfain]

Damn real life
Anyway, the worst thing Thirdfain you have going for is the simple hyper-spartinial navigation. Without some allies there is always the option to simply punish you. It does not take that long to send a fleet of Star Destroyer's, wreck all the shit in one of your five systems then fall back. It would not be hard for the five systems of the Core to put together a 500 point fleet of star destroyer's and escorts to smash any one of your three average worlds. All of which are some distance from each other.

Heck if this was a full campaign we could easily strip away 1200 points worth between everyone and simply launch three 400 point fleet attacks on all your average worlds. If you offer combat in a major way by combing two of your task forces, your still going to hurt. Worse if the fleet simply engages you then runs. You've taken some damage and while your two fleets are tied down your other worlds get smashed.

Fast forward a few months even if you retained your fleet, your star docks have been shot up, your resupply bases are gone and your down a number of ships. And your in no position to begin rebuilding your fleet. Without at least two allies willing to lend you some aid. Any campaign would be a short and violent one. Even worse you might not lose a ship but have all your planets reduced to minor when you move to engage one fleet only to have the second roll in and clean the planet of orbitals and ground defenses.

Armchair warfare is always easier and more predictable than the "real" thing. As a matter of fact, I don't think I would *win* but I have every confidence in being able to bloody your nose, preserve the majority of my force, and win a major propaganda victory which would allow my forces to operate as guerillas long after Sullust is dust- at least if you use that suggested strategy.

And since we are already signing a "gentleman's cease-fire" even that won't be a concern!

[Mr Bean]

Armchair warefare? I'm pretty sure the proper employment of Star Destroyers in attacking a multi-planet system with targets light hours apart has a subject matter expert somewhere. You speak as if their's a subject matter expert out there who we should defer our plans to. As if Admiral Ackbar has a part time gig on CNN going over the mistakes in Iraq as well as speaking out about the flawed defense during the Battle of Hoth that cost as muh in the way of lives as it did.

That said it's a very simple issue you have
Your planets are a decent distance apart from each other, you have about a thousand point effective fleet like everyone else. You have them split up into 250 point task forces and smaller less than fifty point task groups. You have six planets to defend, three of which don't posses sufficient levels of shielding to prevent a raiding force to destroy what value they have to you. (They don't even melt the planet, destroy the orbitals, melt down any space ports, power stations and the like) and force you to spend resources to replace them or abandon them.

So you have three planets you must defend or lose them. You have three planets which you have to defend or lose hundreds of points of infrastructure even if the planets themselves are safe. You have three major task groups and several minor task groups. The loss of any of those major task groups would be a serious blow to you. So if an attack is launched on Malastare by a force large enough to require two of your task groups to respond you face the very real possibility that much smaller but still effective enemy forces are busy picking off Haruun Kal or Vendabar.

Your enemy is free to engage whenever your not, simply move a force in large enough to threaten a planet and when you respond, an equal force threatens a second planet. If you don't have a task group in range then your going to lose that planet and whatever local forces you have.

Not lose it in the sense that it's gone, but in the sense that any benefit to the war you demanded is gone.
Hell if we were really being serious we could be talking about 300 point fleets launching attacks on all six worlds at once. If you have a task force or two in system then the 300 point fleet can simply take it's time about engaging them. If you have two or all three task forces in place at one planet then the other fleet's have an easy job of recking your other four planets or three. Round 2 simply means a large force engages and eliminates the majority of your fleet and now your left with a much smaller fleet in one of your main systems.

And as mentioned previously, hyperdrive is fast, but not that fast. The Core Protectorate worlds for example are bare miniutes apart from each other(All being on the same hyper-lane) most time being taken simply running up or exiting hyperdrive. The Imperial Remenant is under half an hour away from my bit of space. The Manticoreians? Two hours tops The Corellian's? Less than ten hours. Meanwhile except for Sullust and Vendabar, most of your worlds are a decent distance apart. You have the same issue the Rim alliance did(If not as bad) with it's planets being hours apart from each other, where in one attack on one can not be easily defended by the forces of another planet.

[Kartr_Kana]

I went ahead and added completion dates to all of my production not just the stuff over a year. My next chronological year will start on November 25th. Dated from when I made my first post September 2nd.

10xResupply stations = October 28th
4x1300m Repair yards = November 25th
1xOrbiting Repair Yard Type II 2500m = October 28th
3xSpace Dock class I 5000m = December 23rd
1xSpace Dock class II = Feb 17th 2010

Medium Cruiser research 8x6pts = Feb 17th 2010

1x2200m Shipyard = Dec 23rd

10xGladiator-class Cruisers, 4@Alsakan(2x1000m shipyards), 3@Arkania and Onderon (2x1000m shipyards and 2x800m shipyards between them) = October 28th

3.5xWings of TIE Interceptors @ Mechis III (4x200m shipyards) = How long do fighters take to build?