Admiral Johnason wrote:Actually, the Borg can take down starfighters pretty easy. In The Best of Both Worlds II, the cube removed a small group of fighters with ease.
While you are correct, those were tac fighters. They are larger and slower then SW fighters, and as I recall were not manuvering, but were on a straight line course
hmmmm I always thought they were a giant anti-capital ship missile of some kind.
They seemed to be on a collision course with the cube.
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
hmmmm I always thought they were a giant anti-capital ship missile of some kind.
They seemed to be on a collision course with the cube.
Also note: IIRC, the entire thing was a beige*sp* like color and you can't see a view-port. So maybe heh.
Not disputing the fact that they may be tac-fighters.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."
Kerneth wrote:Jedi vs Borg:
1) Telekinesis. Force-bitchslap the Borg across the room. Rip cables loose. Mara Jade indicates in the NJO that a really skilled Jedi can cause an aneurysm in the brain by pinching off a blood vessel, and Darth Vader repeatedly demonstrated that he can strangle somebody at long range. In one of the EU books (can't recall which) Luke uses the Force to cripple the engines of a starship. The kind of power needed to do that can easily dismantle a Borg drone.
2) Lightsabers. No frequency for the Borg to "adapt" to, and can cut through any known material. Unless someone wants to posit that Borg drone skin and metal parts are stronger than a blast door on a Trade Federation starship, that means a lightsaber will chop right through a Borg.
3) Jedi Force-senses. The Borg can't sneak up on a Jedi because he or she will feel them through the Force. Any life-form can be felt in such a way except the YV, and with practice a Jedi can distinguish them just because they're a moving "hole" in the Force. Jedi enhanced reflexes and precog means that it's VERY unlikely a Borg can get close enough to a Jedi to use their nanoprobes.
4) Jedi muscular control. The Jedi can control their musculature sufficiently to eject poison from their bloodstream (Vector Prime). Even if the Borg somehow injected nanoprobes into a Jedi, the Jedi may well be able to remove them in such a fashion.
The rest of Star Wars:
1) Starfighters. Borg weapons haven't shown an ability for precision targeting of something as small and fast-moving as a starfighter, and Borg drones don't have the reflexes necessary to be fighter pilots themselves. Though starfighter-grade weapons may not be a threat to Star Wars capital ships, they do carry enough firepower, at the squadron level, to be a SERIOUS threat to Star Trek ships. The exact numbers on torpedo power output are available elsewhere on the site, I believe.
2) Turbolasers. Turbolasers are not lasers. HTL put out hundreds of gigatons of energy per beam (not per volley, per WEAPON). Medium and light turbolasers put out considerably less, but are still multi-megaton level weapons. Borg cubes are big enough to be viable targets for HTL anyway. Several hundred such weapons firing at a single cube would either overload its shields (most likely) or simply put enough pressure on them to tear the shield generators loose from their mountings and shove them out the back of the cube (less likely but most amusing).
3) Ion cannons. I really, really, want to see what happens when you shoot a Borg cube with an ion cannon.
4) Shields. Star Wars shields are FAR more powerful, and the hulls of their ships far thicker, than their Star Trek counterparts. The Borg have yet to prove they can beam through such shields or hull material. And their weapons, which can't punch through the Enterprise's shields in a single volley, probably wouldn't do much more than amuse a Mon Calamari Cruiser's captain. Once again, shield levels are available on the website if you need numbers.
"We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Lower your shields and prepa--" "Target that spacegoing box. Full broadside." "--re to be assim *static*".
Not Gods....just very very very effective.
If they were god-like they can do everything. Exagerating fool.
*POKE*
Cyaround,
Jason
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."
I seriously doubt that Jedi will have problems against the Borg, even if we assume that the Borg have no presence in the Force. They can, after all, fight battle droids perfectly well in both TPM and AOTC. Drones don't even have a distance weapon to employ against the Jedi: all their fighting is done hand to hand (yes, with the exception of the group controlled by Lore, but those Borg were no longer part of the Collective.)
Back to the Vong...
Borg don't have KE shields. That means a Vong warrior with an Amphistaff will be their worst nightmare made flesh. Dovim Basals can strip a cube's shields away, not to mention scrambling transporter signals. With the shields gone, their lava weapons are strong enough to burn through a cube's hull.
Pay no attention to KylePhoenix. He's just here to spam the board and has advised us all to fisit Dorkshit's webpage. Observe
He's obviously an idiot.
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Let's be completely reasonable here. Taking out the fact the Borg could just use transporters to beam them all into space where they'd die, a team of Green Berets could wipe out several times their number of the Borg on the ground.
An actual combined arms force could probably slaughter as many Borg as you'd be willing to throw at them.
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Darth Servo wrote:Pay no attention to KylePhoenix. He's just here to spam the board and has advised us all to fisit Dorkshit's webpage. Observe
He's obviously an idiot.
GAH!!! I made the mistake of clicking on the link, not recognizing it for the wretched evil it was. You're right: if his two posts revolve around posting a link to a site that MoO has already demolished and one smirking comment in this thread, he'll have a shiny new custom title in no time (if he doesn't use the Sovereign Maneuver and run away.)
Kerneth wrote:Let's be completely reasonable here. Taking out the fact the Borg could just use transporters to beam them all into space where they'd die, a team of Green Berets could wipe out several times their number of the Borg on the ground.
An actual combined arms force could probably slaughter as many Borg as you'd be willing to throw at them.
It'd actually depend on how much ammo the force has. Once they run out of ammo, the Borg will overwhelm them with sheer numbers.
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Kerneth wrote:Let's be completely reasonable here. Taking out the fact the Borg could just use transporters to beam them all into space where they'd die, a team of Green Berets could wipe out several times their number of the Borg on the ground.
An actual combined arms force could probably slaughter as many Borg as you'd be willing to throw at them.
It'd actually depend on how much ammo the force has. Once they run out of ammo, the Borg will overwhelm them with sheer numbers.
They'll still cause tremendous casualties among the drones just beating them to death with their rifles before they go down though.
Darth Yoshi wrote:It'd actually depend on how much ammo the force has. Once they run out of ammo, the Borg will overwhelm them with sheer numbers.
A modern army would be using accurate semi-auto fire to hit the slowly advancing Borg drones. Once they realize how slowly they move, they wouldn't waste ammo with automatic fire and they would be much more efficient.
If a typical soldier is carrying, say, 200 rounds of ammo, it would be entirely realistic for each man to take down at least 50 drones.
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Darth Yoshi wrote:It'd actually depend on how much ammo the force has. Once they run out of ammo, the Borg will overwhelm them with sheer numbers.
A modern army would be using accurate semi-auto fire to hit the slowly advancing Borg drones. Once they realize how slowly they move, they wouldn't waste ammo with automatic fire and they would be much more efficient.
If a typical soldier is carrying, say, 200 rounds of ammo, it would be entirely realistic for each man to take down at least 50 drones.
Not to mention we haven't even talked about their secondary weapon (say, a pistol) and how much ammo they carry for that.
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Maybe 12-15 bullets in the pistol and 2 or 3 extra clips? Oh yeah combined force... that means at least a machinegunner, anti-tank but that would be a waste. Then each soldier also carries about 2 grenades, which could be used to dispatch a couple of concentrated groups.
The Yuuzhan Vong reptiloid slave-race the Chazrach, from their home galaxy, have a presence in the Force. The Vong and their biotech are unique in being on a different level of the Force. Perhaps the genetic sequence all Vong life has somehow alters the Force in their immediate vicinity to something the Jedi have difficulty working with.
But since the Chazrach have a Force presence, there's no reason to believe Trek creatures would have the same immunity as the Vong.
Just to throw more fuel into the fire: from the Thrawn triology, we know that beings with similar thought patterns (eg. clones) are easier for a Force user to control in large numbers. Now imagine what that would mean for the Borg Collective, which effectively has only a single thought pattern.
A good thought, but the clones had identical minds. The Borg Collective might be one mind technically but each drone does not have an identical brain and the collective could take the drones offline if they detected any sort of interference fast enough. I don't think that a Jedi could do a mind trick on a computer though and that ould be a factor as well.
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