KDY "confidentiality" during the Clone Wars buildup.

[weemadando]

I just was thinking about this (for some weird reason) - obviously it was relatively simple to keep the cloning and clone training on Kamino under wraps as they were very isolated and presumably fairly self-sufficient.

However - what about the rest of the build-up? Surely corporate espionage and shit like Bloomberg ("hey, KDY just got a massive contract!"), Janes ("the proposed specs for the type rumoured to be called 'Acclamator'...") and even civilian level stuff like our own HAB still exists in the SW-verse?

How could such a massive undertaking across so many corporations - each of which would require masses of external material in order to complete their construction works - have been [I'm assuming] hidden from everyone? It was always my impression that the entire clone army/navy build-up was secret. Sure some cloning might have been missed right out on the rim - but an organisation which was under heavy Old Republic scrutiny for building a fleet for the Trade Federation suddenly being able to manufacture a significant armada for the Clone Army/Navy prior to anyone realising? It just seems weird to me.

[evillejedi]

considering the DSII project was done with tighter security, with an active insurgency/rebellion and in 2 years, I think it is insanely easy to find a few sites to manufacture the entire initial run of acclamators without anyone of any importance knowing.

that being said, the entire run of acclamators could easily have been described to the public as a 'humanitarian/mercy mission to areas held by the oppressive trade federation' I think the only thing unique about the build up was the fact that it was going to the republic proper as a mobile force rather than to a core/fortress world or wealthy patron. given the scale at which normal civilian development occurs (whole multi kilometer skyscrapers crapped out of construction droids, orbital facilities in the millions being built/repaired/refurbished on a daily basis, terraforming of entire worlds) the resources needed to build the majority of the initial clone army/navy warmachine would only be noticeable for its continuity and for a few rarer materials and parts needed specifically for war vessels, all of which is pretty easy to write off by using remote/secure facilities, for the confederacy it was even easier...

[VT-16]

The initial group of troopships were built at Rothana, said to be almost impenetrable by spies due to a complex language and etiquette structure that weeds out outsiders as well as possessing a sizable in-system navy. That, and the fact it's a relatively remote system, might explain how they could get away with it. Rendili, which at that time would only have civilian and Republic contracts going, had a system of shipyards scattered throughout the Mid and Outer Rim, I assume similar structures for KDY lead to some slipping under the radar. AOTC:ICS does say other companies woke up and began serious industrial espionage after this battle.

[Stark]

I am 100% sure the SW universe is full of forums where uptight milwanking nerds constantly talk about how they would have run the xyz acquisition program better and that project abc will be cancelled due to DAMN CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY.

They're just 95% wrong, just like everywhere else. Why would anyone pay attention?

[Simon_Jester]

Umm... so, how does that relate to the question of how the construction of all those warships went unnoticed? I don't see it.

[Stark]

However - what about the rest of the build-up? Surely corporate espionage and shit like Bloomberg ("hey, KDY just got a massive contract!"), Janes ("the proposed specs for the type rumoured to be called 'Acclamator'...") and even civilian level stuff like our own HAB still exists in the SW-verse?

[weemadando]

I am 100% sure the SW universe is full of forums where uptight milwanking nerds constantly talk about how they would have run the xyz acquisition program better and that project abc will be cancelled due to DAMN CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY.

They're just 95% wrong, just like everywhere else. Why would anyone pay attention?

Because this is the kind of shit that I think of at 5:30am when I'm in the shower getting ready for work.

[Stark]

It was only like, 33% of a part of your point. It's not all bad.

[weemadando]

No damnit! I'm a failure! I won't have you telling me otherwise!



And back (slightly) on topic. The whole economics/politics of Star Wars freaks me out. The moor I read Wookiepedia to find answers the more I question how - oh wait. Nevermind. I'm going to go and ignore EVERYTHING now and watch pretty explosions.

[Simon_Jester]

Would you mind telling me some of those questions that bug you? I'm always up for more plot holes...

[lord Martiya]

Umm... so, how does that relate to the question of how the construction of all those warships went unnoticed? I don't see it.

The initial batch of Acclamator went unnoticed because it was build were most people didn't looked and you could 'disappear' if you went to take a look, while the possible new construction slots and yards at Kuat were probably covered with the 'we're replacing the aging ones, just wait and we'll decommission them'. For the funding... Well, I'm not military or politician, but I suppose they could find enough projects to divert a little money from and enough cover projects to wich give funding openly...

[Serafina]

The Old Republic was one giant bureaucratic sink. I guess a load of projects were not properly reviewed in any way, because most senators only cared about their own system. Throw in the fact that Palpatine had a lot of "allies" (people he manipulated) in the senate, and perhaps a little funding from Count Dooku and other wealthy individuals - there you have your money.

A lof of systems operated large independent navies, too, which would make the buildup very easy to hide - heck, they properly covered it up as a new "protoype line", which would then be thrown into the open market, ready to buy for anyone with enough money.

[Knife]

Do we know if the Acclamators were indeed new and fresh off the factory floor?

They might be so, but if not, then you're just looking at existing Republic Naval assets.

[Lord Revan]

it's unknown I think (there's hints that they were a new design but nothing is confirmed) and Acclamators seem to fit roughly to frigate scale of SW warship, maybe the build up was masked as building new patrol ships to secure trade routes and deal with piracy so that more systems wouldn't join the CIS after all it's only in combination with the clone army and it's hardware that the acclamators seems anything worth notice.

[Thanas]

Here is one thing to consider - Kuat had a private fleet comprising several Star Dreadnoughts. They might have simply hidden the initial batch of Acclamators among their fleet expansion, and in fact, we see Acclamator like ships patroling a system way before the Clone Wars.

So IMO they were simply disguised as standard production orders for KDY clients.

[bz249]

Okay in this site there is some disbelief about the official 25k ISD in service of the Imperial Navy (so not regional, planetary...etc). However if we accept the canon number and that the Imperial Navy is bigger than its Republic counterpart...

So 25k middle sized warships is an ridiculously low number for a Galaxy*, one can easily put into this or that budget and construct in this or that remote shipyard. No big deal for a Galactic level economy. Maybe they have to increase the federal level tax by 1 ppm to finance it and they needed a tiny fraction of the shipbuilding industry.

(It only makes sense in a Holy Roman style very decentralized stuff, however the Imperial and especially the Republic government show lots of similarities to such a system)

[Thanas]

^You post makes no sense.

EDIT: To clarify, we are not talking about the Imperial Navy, the Republic Navy or even a significant aspect of those navies. We are talking about small numbers of frigate-sized crafts.

[Bilbo]

I get the impression that "peace" is a relative term in the Old Republic. While there has no recently been a galaxy spanning war like the Sith wars in some time there is still constant conflict throughout the galaxy between member planets. So it would be expected that there is a flourishing arms industry in the galaxy.

What was unique about the Grand Army and the Navy (and do we even really know this about the navy?) is that before this time there was no massive force under the sole command of the Republic itself. It was not the size of scope of the Republic forces that made them unique. With this in mind the production of a navy for the Republic would be easy to hideby not hiding it at all. You just build it at any number of facilties.

Besides the more I think about it the less I think the navy was a big deal. At the battle at the end of AOTC the Seperatists are shocked that the Republic has a huge army. No mention is made of the navy at all which suggests that it always existed.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Rothana is on the far edge of known space, relatively speaking. It is situated near Wild Space. Given the distance, and the fact that someone deleted the entire planet from the Jedi star charts, shows that there was definitely a concerted effort to hide the project.

And KDY is a huge company. With a bureacracy equal to many a planet. It will not be difficult to hide projects here and there.

[weemadando]

I thought Kamino was deleted - not Rothana.

[lord Martiya]

Besides the more I think about it the less I think the navy was a big deal. At the battle at the end of AOTC the Seperatists are shocked that the Republic has a huge army. No mention is made of the navy at all which suggests that it always existed.

Like THIS? There's also the Katana Fleet, whose date of disappearance is not clear if it was "about ten years before the Clone Wars" (according Talon Karrde), fifty years before 9 ABY (according Gilad Pellaeon), between 46 and 44 BBY (according The New Essential Chronology) or between 27 and 22 BBY (according to Outbound Flight).

[PainRack]

Just how large was the original Accalamator order?

[Thanas]

The original clone army was 200.000 men. A single acclamator can carry 16.000 of them. This would mean something on the scale of 12-24 Acclamators for them, considering support personnel.

A very small order.

[lord Martiya]

When was stated the 'units' were single soldier?

[Solauren]

Geeze, why is this even an issue?

Between 5 or 6 major companies, The Sith had enough warships to start a GALACTIC SCALE WAR.

Companies in Star Wars having alot of military assets to protect their commerical and financial assets with is not a big issue for the politicians.