NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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The New York Times' David Sanger wrote:September 10, 2009
U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb
By DAVID E. SANGER

This article was reported by William J. Broad, Mark Mazzetti and David E. Sanger and written by Mr. Sanger.

WASHINGTON — American intelligence agencies have concluded in recent months that Iran has created enough nuclear fuel to make a rapid, if risky, sprint for a nuclear weapon. But new intelligence reports delivered to the White House say that the country has deliberately stopped short of the critical last steps to make a bomb.

In the first public acknowledgment of the intelligence findings, the American ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency declared on Wednesday that Iran now had what he called a “possible breakout capacity” if it decided to enrich its stockpile of uranium, converting it to bomb-grade material.

The statement by the ambassador, Glyn Davies, was intended to put pressure on American allies to move toward far more severe sanctions against Iran this month, perhaps including a cutoff of gasoline to the country, if it failed to take up President Obama’s invitation for serious negotiations. But it could also complicate the administration’s efforts to persuade an increasingly impatient Israeli government to give diplomacy more time to work, and hold off from a military strike against Iran’s facilities..

In interviews over the past two months, intelligence and military officials, and members of the Obama administration, have said they are convinced that Iran has made significant progress on uranium enrichment, especially over the past year.

Iran has maintained that its continuing enrichment program is for peaceful purposes, that the uranium is solely for electric power and that its scientists have never researched weapons design. But in a 2007 announcement, the United States said that it had found evidence that Iran had worked on designs for making a warhead, though it determined that the project was halted in late 2003. The new intelligence information collected by the Obama administration finds no convincing evidence that the design work has resumed.

It is unclear how many months — or even years — it would take Iran to complete that final design work, and then build a warhead that could fit atop its long-range missiles. That question has been the subject of a series of sharp, behind-the-scenes exchanges between the Israelis and top American intelligence and military officials, dating back nearly two years and increasing in intensity in recent months.

The American position is that the United States and its allies would probably have considerable warning time if Iran moved to convert its growing stockpile of low-enriched nuclear fuel to make it usable for weapons.

While there is little doubt inside the United States government that Iran’s ultimate goal is to create a weapons capability, there is some skepticism about whether an Iranian government that is distracted by the fallout from a disputed presidential election would take that risky step, and how quickly it could overcome the remaining technological hurdles.

But Israel draws more dire pictures from the same set of facts. In classified exchanges with the United States, it has cited evidence that the design effort secretly resumed in 2005, at the order of Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. American officials say that the evidence is circumstantial, and point out that the Israelis have not produced a copy of the order they say Ayatollah Khamenei gave.

”We’re all looking at the same set of facts,” said one senior Israeli intelligence official, who, like others interviewed for this article, asked for anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the intelligence-gathering. “We are interpreting them quite differently than the White House does.”

At the core of the dispute is the “breakout capacity” that Mr. Davies referred to on Wednesday in his first presentation as ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog. The phrase refers to a non-nuclear nation’s ability to acquire enough fuel and expertise to be able to complete building an actual weapon relatively quickly.

The Israelis have argued that there could be little or no warning time — especially if Iran has hidden facilities — and they contended that in the aftermath of Iraq, American intelligence agencies were being far too cautious in assessing Iran’s capability.

As American and Israeli officials expected, Iran turned over to European nations on Wednesday what it called a new set of “proposals” for negotiations over its nuclear program. American officials said they had not read them, but Susan E. Rice, the American ambassador to the United Nations, said the Iranian response must be “serious, substantive and constructive” to meet Mr. Obama’s test.

The White House has given Iran a late-September deadline to begin substantive negotiations, or face additional sanctions.

Administration officials are debating whether the Iranian leadership, struggling with violent protests, is effectively paralyzed when it comes to negotiating with the West — or for that matter in determining how aggressively to push ahead with its nuclear program. The White House is hoping its offer to negotiate has thrown Iran’s leadership off track, and built up credibility around the world if the president begins to press for tougher sanctions.

The intelligence updates for Mr. Obama follow the broad outlines of the conclusions delivered to President George W. Bush in 2007, as part of a 140-page National Intelligence Estimate. It was based on information gathered by American spy agencies that had pierced Iran’s military computer networks, coming up with surprising evidence that the country had halted its weapons-design effort four years earlier.

Critics said the public portion of the report understated the importance of Iran’s progress in enriching uranium, the hardest part of the bomb-making process.

Accurate intelligence about the progress of Iran’s weapons programs has been notoriously poor. Much of the country’s early activity was missed for nearly 18 years, until a dissident group revealed the existence of enrichment efforts.

Both the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate and the recent updates for Mr. Obama, according to officials familiar with their contents, are filled with caveats that Iran could be conducting uranium enrichment or weapons design work at remote locations that have eluded detection.

The 2007 estimate outraged Israel, so much so that the next year the Israeli government secretly went to Mr. Bush to seek bunker-busting bombs, refueling capability and overflight rights over Iraq, in case it moved to strike Iran’s facilities. He turned Israel down.

Last month, former Vice President Dick Cheney told Fox News that he “was probably a bigger advocate of military action than any of my colleagues.” In recent interviews, former Bush administration officials confirmed that they had asked the Pentagon to draw up possible attack scenarios. But the issue was never seriously debated because Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice were firmly opposed, the officials said, partly because they felt that an attack would not deal a significant setback to Iran’s program. “The vice president believed, and the Israelis believed, that it would be better if the Bush administration took care of it,” one former official said.

By the international inspectors’ last count, Iran has installed more than 8,000 centrifuges — the machines that enrich uranium — at its main underground facility at Natanz, the primary target the Israelis had in their sights. At last inspection, Iran was using only a little more than half of them to enrich uranium.

If Tehran has no hidden fuel-production facilities, to create a bomb it would have to convert its existing stockpile of low-enriched uranium into bomb-grade material. International inspectors, who visit Natanz regularly, would presumably raise alarms. Iran would also have to produce or buy a working weapons design, complete with triggering devices, and make it small enough to fit in one of its missiles.

The official American estimate is that Iran could produce a nuclear weapon between 2010 and 2015, probably later rather than sooner. Meir Dagan, the director of the Mossad, Israel’s main spy agency, told the Israeli Parliament in June that unless action was taken, Iran would have its first bomb by 2014, according to an account in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that Israeli officials have confirmed.

“Israel expects that the international community will prevent Iran from gaining nuclear military capabilities,” said Michael Oren, Israel’s new ambassador to Washington.

Despite Mr. Dagan’s public comments, most Israeli officials believe that Iran could create a bomb much more quickly. They cite the murky evidence surrounding two secret programs in Iran, Project 110 and Project 111. Those are the code names for what are believed to be warhead-design programs run by an academic, Mohsen Fakrizadeh.

Iran has never allowed Mr. Fakrizadeh to be interviewed. But international inspectors have shown videos and documents suggesting that his group has worked on nuclear triggers, trajectories for missiles and the detonation of a warhead at almost 2,000 feet above ground — which would suggest a nuclear detonation. On Wednesday, Iran again said this evidence consisted of “forgeries” and “fabrications.”

Israeli officials say privately that the Obama administration is deluding itself in thinking that diplomacy will persuade Iran to give up its nuclear program. The Obama administration says it believes that Iran is on the defensive — fearful of more crippling sanctions and beset by internal turmoil. But even inside the White House, some officials think Mr. Obama’s diplomatic effort will prove fruitless.

Some administration officials insist Israel is throwing out worst-case possibilities to “shorten the timeline” to an Iranian bomb as a way to put pressure on the Obama administration. But some administration officials acknowledge that Israel’s impatience and hints of military action are useful because they might push Iran into negotiations, with real deadlines.

At a meeting with a senior Obama administration official several months ago, Israeli officials pressed for intelligence and other help necessary for a strike, according to one official with knowledge of the exchange.

Ethan Bronner contributed reporting from Jerusalem, and Souad Mekhennet from Berlin.
Well, Israel is certainly being its usual self, but it seems that Iran is more interested in using threats of gaining the nuke for political points than actually having the bomb. Maybe they're not sure they really want nuke technology, but they want it to be within arm's reach in case a Western country kicks the sabre-rattling into overdrive.

Whatever the situation, I know that even though Iran obtaining nuclear weapons certainly wouldn't be a good thing, it doesn't keep me up at night as much as the possibility of the US or one of its allies attacking the country and turning a population of young, pro-democracy up and comers into another generation of angry Islamists. Yet judging from what Obama has said and the fact that the US is so tied up in two wars, I'd consider US military action unlikely, and action from a European country even less likely. This brings us to Israel. We know the Israelis have long been willing to engage in aggressive, unilateral military action, but it has largely been against either countries with militaries far less impressive than Iran's, or countries with whom they share a land border. We know the US could conduct deep bombing strikes hundreds or thousands of miles into Iran using the B-2, the F-22, or the F-117. The question for the militarily knowledgeable is: Does Israel have anything approaching this capability? In other words, does Israel really have the ability to fly hundreds of miles into the airspace of a large, heavily militarized country like Iran, hit their targets, and come back in one piece, or are they just rattling sabres?
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by Guardsman Bass »

But new intelligence reports delivered to the White House say that the country has deliberately stopped short of the critical last steps to make a bomb.
This is probably deliberate (assuming everything the Israelis are saying about the Iranian program is true, a big if). With no nukes but the capacity to have one in a short period of time, they get some of the benefits of deterrence without the issues that would occur if they actually tested a nuke. There's a number of other countries that have the capability but don't have nukes, among them Japan and South Korea IIRC.
Yet judging from what Obama has said and the fact that the US is so tied up in two wars, I'd consider US military action unlikely, and action from a European country even less likely.
"Unlikely" is probably an understatement. Bush - who was certainly no friend of Iran - turned down the Israeli request to use Iraqi air space for a possible strike on Iran, and I can't imagine Obama being more open in that area (particularly with thousands of troops in Iraq who would be next door and open to Iranian retaliation).
Arthur Tuxedo wrote:The question for the militarily knowledgeable is: Does Israel have anything approaching this capability? In other words, does Israel really have the ability to fly hundreds of miles into the airspace of a large, heavily militarized country like Iran, hit their targets, and come back in one piece, or are they just rattling sabres?
If I recall correctly, it's tough for two reasons:

1. They don't have the weaponry to reliably destroy all of the sites that would be on the target list short of using nukes, and

2. It would be a massive, difficult mission, much harder than the strike on Osirak in the 1980s and the Syrian site in 2007. They'd have to do multiple re-fuelings in mid-air (which was why they asked Bush permission to use Iraqi air space if they decided to conduct the mission), and it would still be out of range of most of their bombers.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by Axis Kast »

Well, Israel is certainly being its usual self, but it seems that Iran is more interested in using threats of gaining the nuke for political points than actually having the bomb. Maybe they're not sure they really want nuke technology, but they want it to be within arm's reach in case a Western country kicks the sabre-rattling into overdrive.
The NIE of 2007 which observed the Iran had backed off from weaponization may have reflected a new dispensation achieved after the successful construction of an Iranian mock-up, after which certain aspects of the program could be abandoned or "rolled back" unless needed.

Probably, Iran will build a nuclear weapon. Any sanctions which they might face would be far outweighed by the advantages of possession, although Bush's forbearance is a good indication of what they could probably expect in the future, with or without the resort to a weapon of mass destruction.

Any new proliferation is, in my opinion, undesirable owing to the possibility of accident or miscalculation, but I don't see a viable way of stopping Iran short of making some unacceptable sacrifice.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:In other words, does Israel really have the ability to fly hundreds of miles into the airspace of a large, heavily militarized country like Iran, hit their targets, and come back in one piece, or are they just rattling sabres?
Yes, I have no doubt the Israelis could pull off a two way mission, but for for them to pull it off with conventional weapons means the entire Israeli air force goes, which leaves them open to a counter-strike. This means that if they go, then go nuclear, as it would reduce the number of aircraft they have to launch. It would also mean that a one-way mission would be slightly more acceptable from a position of losing the planes*

*Th preceding is based off of reading discussions by other more learned than I, and from the air campaign planning documents that I got back about 7 years ago when I planned a campaign against Libya for a school project.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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The IAF's prospects of success are low. They're flying very far, they'll be carrying air-to-ground ordinance (the Iranian Air Force won't have to) and critical Iranian sites will be protected not only by the Iranian Air Force, but also by Tor-M1Es, which have a demonstrated capability to swat air-to-ground munitions (missiles or bombs) out of the air.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by MKSheppard »

Vympel wrote:The IAF's prospects of success are low. They're flying very far, they'll be carrying air-to-ground ordinance (the Iranian Air Force won't have to) and critical Iranian sites will be protected not only by the Iranian Air Force, but also by Tor-M1Es, which have a demonstrated capability to swat air-to-ground munitions (missiles or bombs) out of the air.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by weemadando »

Well, suddenly the rumours that Israel was responsible for the Russian Ship heist a few weeks back makes more sense - I heard a news report today about it allegedly being "hijacked" because it was transporting some new ADS to Iran.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:We know the US could conduct deep bombing strikes hundreds or thousands of miles into Iran using the B-2, the F-22, or the F-117.
It's a bit of a nitpick, but the F-117 was retired last year, so that's not going to be available.
Does Israel have anything approaching this capability? In other words, does Israel really have the ability to fly hundreds of miles into the airspace of a large, heavily militarized country like Iran, hit their targets, and come back in one piece, or are they just rattling sabres?
The Israelis insofar as I know don't have the long-range strike capability to get at Iran. I guess they could have their Strike Eagles and Fighting Falcons mount a long-range attack by refuelling a couple of times along the way but they and their tankers would have to fly over Syrian or Jordanian airspace, and then over Iraqi airspace, to even get to the Iranian border. I find it highly unlikely that such a mission would be a success.

Besides, Iran is not an easy target; they actually have some decent air defenses and frankly with their antics the Israeli air force strikes me as barely qualified to drop bombs on people who can't shoot back - I haven't seen much to indicate they can actually take on an opponent who manages to fight back.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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weemadando wrote:Well, suddenly the rumours that Israel was responsible for the Russian Ship heist a few weeks back makes more sense - I heard a news report today about it allegedly being "hijacked" because it was transporting some new ADS to Iran.
Nightwatch has reported that Arctic Sea was transporting S-300s to Iran.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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MariusRoi wrote: Yes, I have no doubt the Israelis could pull off a two way mission, but for for them to pull it off with conventional weapons means the entire Israeli air force goes, which leaves them open to a counter-strike. This means that if they go, then go nuclear, as it would reduce the number of aircraft they have to launch. It would also mean that a one-way mission would be slightly more acceptable from a position of losing the planes*
Are you suggesting that Israel might make a preemptive nuclear strike on another nation with nuclear weapons that legally do not exist to prevent said nation from acquiring illegal nuclear weapons? They wouldn't dare. The political fallout would be incredible, and Israel isn't exactly the most popular country in the world to start with. Israel's relationship with America would be damaged; the American public would turn against them.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by Straha »

Funnily enough, this is exactly what I was predicting back in the Iran Elections thread. Iran gains nothing from actually having a nuke. It gains a lot more from saying "We could have a Nuke anytime we feel like it, especially if we think our interests are threatened in the region." And then staring very meaningfully at Bahrain, Kuwait or the UAE. It gives them a lot more leverage while giving the U.S. absolutely none.

That said there have been repeated reports that Saudi Arabia, and others, have given Israel the nod that a Osiriak style operation would be officially acceptable to them. I wont elaborate on the difficulties given here already but I think that if Israel ever does judge it to be necessary to destroy the Iranian nuclear program then they'll find a way to do it.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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Eframepilot wrote:Are you suggesting that Israel might make a preemptive nuclear strike on another nation with nuclear weapons that legally do not exist to prevent said nation from acquiring illegal nuclear weapons? They wouldn't dare. The political fallout would be incredible, and Israel isn't exactly the most popular country in the world to start with. Israel's relationship with America would be damaged; the American public would turn against them.
Would you mind explaining how nuclear weapons can be 'illegal'. And yes, I think that if the Israelis thought that they could stop, or significantly delay an Iranian bomb, and control the fallout (metaphorically, they wouldn't care about the political fallout, as who cares if they take out any Iranian politicians), then yes, they would.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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MariusRoi wrote:
Eframepilot wrote:Are you suggesting that Israel might make a preemptive nuclear strike on another nation with nuclear weapons that legally do not exist to prevent said nation from acquiring illegal nuclear weapons? They wouldn't dare. The political fallout would be incredible, and Israel isn't exactly the most popular country in the world to start with. Israel's relationship with America would be damaged; the American public would turn against them.
Would you mind explaining how nuclear weapons can be 'illegal'. And yes, I think that if the Israelis thought that they could stop, or significantly delay an Iranian bomb, and control the fallout (metaphorically, they wouldn't care about the political fallout, as who cares if they take out any Iranian politicians), then yes, they would.
By "illegal", he basically meant that officially speaking, Israel's nuclear arsenal does not exist - the official stance of Israel is "We will not be the first country in the Middle East to introduce nuclear weapons." Everybody knows they have them, so it's a pretty open secret, but if they were to actually use them it would basically be the same as saying that they have them openly. *

*I remember when Ehud Barak spoke at my university, some student asked him if Israel had nuclear weapons. He chuckled and said, "Well, Israeli is a small country with dangerous neighbors" or something like that while smiling.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by Raj Ahten »

What about Israel using Georgia as a staging area for an attack on Iran? Israel has been selling a lot of weapons to them lately and the Georgians might be stupid enough to allow it.

But then again, Israel sells weapons to a damn lot of people and Georgia isn't really that close to Iran anyway.

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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

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weemadando wrote:Well, suddenly the rumours that Israel was responsible for the Russian Ship heist a few weeks back makes more sense - I heard a news report today about it allegedly being "hijacked" because it was transporting some new ADS to Iran.
I doubt you could smuggle a S300 system on a freighter without the Russians knowing, and if the Russians know, then they can just send it via the Caspian Sea.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

Pelranius wrote:I doubt you could smuggle a S300 system on a freighter without the Russians knowing, and if the Russians know, then they can just send it via the Caspian Sea.
Smuggling multiple juggernaut-sized vehicles anywhere without anyone knowing would strike me as a considerable achievement. Transport via the Caspian would indeed be easier, and with a significantly-reduced chance of outside interference.
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Re: NYT: "U.S. Says Iran Has Ability to Expedite a Nuclear Bomb"

Post by weemadando »

Pelranius wrote:
weemadando wrote:Well, suddenly the rumours that Israel was responsible for the Russian Ship heist a few weeks back makes more sense - I heard a news report today about it allegedly being "hijacked" because it was transporting some new ADS to Iran.
I doubt you could smuggle a S300 system on a freighter without the Russians knowing, and if the Russians know, then they can just send it via the Caspian Sea.
I think the point is that the Russians did know and were trying to do the sale/shipping on the sly. Which is why a giant stink was not kicked up by them about a goddamn hijacking of an arms shipment. If, of course, that story is true.
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