"We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

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Thanas
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Thanas »

The Brits went overboard with it, though (as they do with all things continental). I still remember the caricature that showed unified Germany gradually morphing into a wehrmacht soldier.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Big Orange wrote:I don't think things are going too well in Germany with a car industry that seems stagnant and a former East Germany still not over its Communist past, but unlike post-Thatcher Britain, at least the Germany has a economy more geared towards serving society and not the other way around. The car industry worldwide has become unsustainable and bloated in the last few decades, yet Germany still has iconic automobile firms that have endured and not been demolished like Rover MG has.
I don't think there's anything wrong with German automobile industry when it comes to technology. Of course the auto industry is in worldwide trouble right now, but along the Japanese and the South Koreans (and FIAT), the German car makers are likely to come out with the least damage. That does not mean that there won't be any casualties in Germany at all, since as you wrote the car industry has serious overcapacity globally.
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Broomstick wrote: Same reason the US still doesn't let Japan have anything more than a self-defense force of very limited scope, even if guarding their asses is such a pain. Even more than Germany, no one trusts Japan to behave itself with an army. At least the Germans have admitted their sins and are trying to demonstrate they have changed their ways, the Japanese are still in denial about how they came to have to atomic bombs dropped on their heads.
I don't know if the word "let" is right here. Japan is a fully sovereign country and could change her constitution, if the parliament would pass the laws. However, there is a substantial pacifist movement in Japan and passing any laws to expand the military would be nigh on impossible. Furthermore, with modern military tech Japan does not really need the US to defend her soil even with the current restrictions. The JMSDF is very powerful navy with many modern destroyers, frigates and diesel-electric submarines. It does not have much power-projection capability (as intended), but its defensive capabilities are excellent. The same goes for the JASDF: it operates more than 300 modern fighters, has a good-sized AEW&C fleet and air-refueling capacity. The JGSDF has been somewhat of a junior partner technologically, but that does not mean that it's poorly equipped, for example after the AH-64DJP's have been delivered it operates about 140 attack helicopters. The main problem the JGSDF has often faced is the lack of new capable recruits thanks to the strong pacifist sentiments in the country.
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Broomstick »

Yes, well, they went from being highly expansionist and military to extremely pacifistic in one generation, didn't they? The US owned Japan after the surrender and didn't let it go for seven years. The Japanese constitution was written by Americans, not Japanese. The US dismantled and rebuilt the Japanese military during that time (well, what was left after we got done with beating them into surrender). The US pledged to defend Japan from foreign attacks, that still stands (interesting question is whether it would actually be honored should actual hostilities break out).

If Japan has an effective, if limited, self-defense force that in no way invalidates my point. Both Germany and Japan unquestionably have a right to self-defense and I'm sure their forces are quite competent. It is the ability to project force that was taken from them post-WWII. The resulting status quo is working, and while in theory that could be changed it is not to anyone's advantage to do so.
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Tanasinn »

I'd have to think that America would respond to a military attack on Japan, at the very least because the nation's reputation as a reliable ally and asset in a military alliance would be at stake. Regardless, I don't think there's a sane military leader willing to try and end up finding the answer on the tip of a missile.
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Broomstick »

North Korea has made some noise - they're about the ones I can think of who might try it.
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Simon_Jester »

Thanas wrote:The Brits went overboard with it, though (as they do with all things continental). I still remember the caricature that showed unified Germany gradually morphing into a wehrmacht soldier.
There was also, as I recall, the standing joke:

"Now that the Germans have reunified their country, they'll need to select a capital. They're thinking of Paris."
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Re: "We do not want a united Germany" -Margaret Thatcher, 1989

Post by Serafina »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Thanas wrote:The Brits went overboard with it, though (as they do with all things continental). I still remember the caricature that showed unified Germany gradually morphing into a wehrmacht soldier.
There was also, as I recall, the standing joke:

"Now that the Germans have reunified their country, they'll need to select a capital. They're thinking of Paris."
Heh...you can say about the Brits what you want, but i LOVE their humor.

As a related questions, does anyone have any caricatures about this issue?
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