US Army assassinates Journalists.
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US Army assassinates Journalists.
So this was in the WaPo about some embedded journalists being iced in I-raq. Well, yes, they ARE embedded, but with the other side
Link
Military's Killing of 2 Journalists in Iraq Detailed in New Book
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
A new book by a Washington Post reporter provides a graphic, second-by-second description of the U.S. military's 2007 killing of two Reuters journalists in Baghdad, an incident that the news organization says it cannot investigate fully because the Pentagon has withheld key records of the event.
The Reuters photographer and driver were carrying cameras and walking with a group of Iraqi men, some of whom appeared to be armed, when a U.S. helicopter crew mistook them for insurgents, according to an account by David Finkel in the book "The Good Soldiers," published Tuesday.
Reuters has been pressing the U.S. military for more than two years to turn over all materials containing information about the shootings on July 12, 2007, of its staff photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and driver Saeed Chmagh, 40, in the helicopter strike in a contested neighborhood of East Baghdad.
"We continue to have questions whether or not the actions taken by the soldiers in the area that led to the deaths of the two Reuters journalists were necessary and appropriate," Reuters chief counsel Thomas Kim said. "My goal is to understand the basis on which the military concluded that the shooting was justified."
Sixteen journalists have been killed by U.S. military fire in Iraq, leading to calls by Reuters and groups such as the Committee to Protect Journalists for the Pentagon to undertake timely and thorough investigations of each case and make them public.
But the U.S. military has withheld key information on the 2007 shootings on the grounds that it is classified, and has not released to Reuters a video taken from the gunship that captures the complete sequence of radio communications and imagery that unfolded on the streets below.
That recording appears to form the basis for a description of the incident in one chapter of the book, about a U.S. infantry unit in Baghdad.
According to Finkel's account, Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh arrived in Baghdad's east Al-Amin neighborhood during a morning of clashes between insurgents and the U.S. military. Working independently and without the knowledge of the U.S. ground unit or Apache crews operating in the area, Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were walking along a street with seven other Iraqi men, two of whom appeared to be holding a rifle and a grenade launcher. The photographer and driver initially were both carrying cameras, which the Apache crew mistook for weapons.
After crew members gained permission to fire and circled a building that blocked their view, they flew the Apache in for the attack, Finkel wrote.
"Light 'em all up."
One second before the first burst, Noor-Eldeen glanced up at the Apache.
"Come on -- fire."
The others followed the gaze and looked up, too.
The gunner fired.
Seven of the nine men in the group began to fall, but Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh managed to run away, according to Finkel. The gunner tracked Noor-Eldeen as he fled into a pile of trash and fired three more bursts with the cannon, killing him as he could be seen trying to stand in a cloud of dust.
Chmagh was wounded and began trying to push himself up on his knees and crawl away, but could move only a few inches. The crew saw that Chmagh was alive, but initially did not shoot him because he was unarmed. However, when a van drove up and two men tried to pick up Chmagh, the crew requested permission to fire and received it. The gunner opened fire, killing Chmagh and the two men, and injuring two children who were inside the van.
Soon after the shootings, Reuters submitted a request under the Freedom of Information Act for all documents and materials about the incident, Kim said. In April, the U.S. Central Command, which oversees the U.S. military in Iraq, said it had identified eight documents but was withholding two because they were classified and released six others in redacted form, with classified portions blacked out.
Reuters appealed in June, saying the information the military released was incomplete, challenging the decision to classify it and asking for an expedited decision. In July, the Pentagon rejected the request to expedite the appeal, Kim said. He said one of the documents released contains grainy photographs that appear to be captured from a helicopter video, which Reuters is seeking to obtain.
"It's difficult to understand whether the investigation is coming to sound conclusions without actually seeing the evidence," he said. "It is hard to make heads or tails out of the screen grabs from the video, so we would like to see the video . . . the actual unedited version of what happened on the scene."
Frank Smyth, the journalist security coordinator for the CPJ, said the U.S. military has not made public several other investigations involving the deaths of journalists killed by U.S. forces, and said that more transparency is important both for accountability and for preventing such incidents in the future.
"This case is one of quite a few, more than 10 at least, where journalists have been killed by U.S. fire in Iraq and it has not been investigated in a public way," Smyth said. "Once we have information, judgments can be made on whether they were justified."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said U.S military personnel have repeatedly met with news managers in recent years to discuss safety issues, and U.S. commanders also have taken measures to remind troops of the presence of reporters on the battlefield. "We think the safest way to cover these operations is to be embedded with U.S. forces," he said.
Link
Military's Killing of 2 Journalists in Iraq Detailed in New Book
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
A new book by a Washington Post reporter provides a graphic, second-by-second description of the U.S. military's 2007 killing of two Reuters journalists in Baghdad, an incident that the news organization says it cannot investigate fully because the Pentagon has withheld key records of the event.
The Reuters photographer and driver were carrying cameras and walking with a group of Iraqi men, some of whom appeared to be armed, when a U.S. helicopter crew mistook them for insurgents, according to an account by David Finkel in the book "The Good Soldiers," published Tuesday.
Reuters has been pressing the U.S. military for more than two years to turn over all materials containing information about the shootings on July 12, 2007, of its staff photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and driver Saeed Chmagh, 40, in the helicopter strike in a contested neighborhood of East Baghdad.
"We continue to have questions whether or not the actions taken by the soldiers in the area that led to the deaths of the two Reuters journalists were necessary and appropriate," Reuters chief counsel Thomas Kim said. "My goal is to understand the basis on which the military concluded that the shooting was justified."
Sixteen journalists have been killed by U.S. military fire in Iraq, leading to calls by Reuters and groups such as the Committee to Protect Journalists for the Pentagon to undertake timely and thorough investigations of each case and make them public.
But the U.S. military has withheld key information on the 2007 shootings on the grounds that it is classified, and has not released to Reuters a video taken from the gunship that captures the complete sequence of radio communications and imagery that unfolded on the streets below.
That recording appears to form the basis for a description of the incident in one chapter of the book, about a U.S. infantry unit in Baghdad.
According to Finkel's account, Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh arrived in Baghdad's east Al-Amin neighborhood during a morning of clashes between insurgents and the U.S. military. Working independently and without the knowledge of the U.S. ground unit or Apache crews operating in the area, Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were walking along a street with seven other Iraqi men, two of whom appeared to be holding a rifle and a grenade launcher. The photographer and driver initially were both carrying cameras, which the Apache crew mistook for weapons.
After crew members gained permission to fire and circled a building that blocked their view, they flew the Apache in for the attack, Finkel wrote.
"Light 'em all up."
One second before the first burst, Noor-Eldeen glanced up at the Apache.
"Come on -- fire."
The others followed the gaze and looked up, too.
The gunner fired.
Seven of the nine men in the group began to fall, but Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh managed to run away, according to Finkel. The gunner tracked Noor-Eldeen as he fled into a pile of trash and fired three more bursts with the cannon, killing him as he could be seen trying to stand in a cloud of dust.
Chmagh was wounded and began trying to push himself up on his knees and crawl away, but could move only a few inches. The crew saw that Chmagh was alive, but initially did not shoot him because he was unarmed. However, when a van drove up and two men tried to pick up Chmagh, the crew requested permission to fire and received it. The gunner opened fire, killing Chmagh and the two men, and injuring two children who were inside the van.
Soon after the shootings, Reuters submitted a request under the Freedom of Information Act for all documents and materials about the incident, Kim said. In April, the U.S. Central Command, which oversees the U.S. military in Iraq, said it had identified eight documents but was withholding two because they were classified and released six others in redacted form, with classified portions blacked out.
Reuters appealed in June, saying the information the military released was incomplete, challenging the decision to classify it and asking for an expedited decision. In July, the Pentagon rejected the request to expedite the appeal, Kim said. He said one of the documents released contains grainy photographs that appear to be captured from a helicopter video, which Reuters is seeking to obtain.
"It's difficult to understand whether the investigation is coming to sound conclusions without actually seeing the evidence," he said. "It is hard to make heads or tails out of the screen grabs from the video, so we would like to see the video . . . the actual unedited version of what happened on the scene."
Frank Smyth, the journalist security coordinator for the CPJ, said the U.S. military has not made public several other investigations involving the deaths of journalists killed by U.S. forces, and said that more transparency is important both for accountability and for preventing such incidents in the future.
"This case is one of quite a few, more than 10 at least, where journalists have been killed by U.S. fire in Iraq and it has not been investigated in a public way," Smyth said. "Once we have information, judgments can be made on whether they were justified."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said U.S military personnel have repeatedly met with news managers in recent years to discuss safety issues, and U.S. commanders also have taken measures to remind troops of the presence of reporters on the battlefield. "We think the safest way to cover these operations is to be embedded with U.S. forces," he said.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I'm trying to figure out how this is supposed to be funny, and I'm having a hard time of it.
Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
The fact that nobody cares about the seven Iraqi men who also died?Vaporous wrote:I'm trying to figure out how this is supposed to be funny, and I'm having a hard time of it.
I'm guessing Shep finds this ironic, but until there is any evidence that the people they were with were armed, let alone insurgents, it seems to be more of a case of accidental fire.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
Shep dislikes journalists, and I imagine he's throwing out some flamebait to get someone to respond so he can get on his soapbox.Vaporous wrote:I'm trying to figure out how this is supposed to be funny, and I'm having a hard time of it.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
What I like is that Reuters isn't following this to it's logical conclusion -- they were embedded with insurgents and died because of it - but keeps insisting that their journalists were pure as driven snow.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
Don't forget his current 'assassination' soapbox.
Gotta kill them journalists, and all. Probably traitors.
Gotta kill them journalists, and all. Probably traitors.
Last edited by Stark on 2009-09-15 08:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I like posting amusing title names. Assassination is such a fun word. ASSASSINATION.Stark wrote:Don't forget his current 'assassination' soapbox.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
Do you have evidence that they were in fact insurgents, or is the mere possibility enough for you?MKSheppard wrote:What I like is that Reuters isn't following this to it's logical conclusion -- they were embedded with insurgents and died because of it - but keeps insisting that their journalists were pure as driven snow.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
This is the guy who thinks everyone in Gitmo was a terrorist. What do you think?
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I've heard for years accusations that the American military tends to murder journalists not under their thumbs. "Accidentally" mistaking them for insurgents, missiles "accidentally" hitting the hotel room where they are staying and so on. The military only likes journalists who say what they are told.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
You do realize you're very close to making accusations of a conspiracy where the military purposefully targets journalists not embedded with them? From all the information we have the best we can assume is that the CoC was feeling trigger happy when more intel should've been gathered and acted negligently, this was in 2007 when roaming bands of armed insurgents walking around in broad daylight was a rather odd occurence.Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard for years accusations that the American military tends to murder journalists not under their thumbs. "Accidentally" mistaking them for insurgents, missiles "accidentally" hitting the hotel room where they are staying and so on. The military only likes journalists who say what they are told.
Last edited by Ritterin Sophia on 2009-09-16 12:25am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I think he was making that accusation. Words like murder and "accidentally" did it for me.General Schatten wrote:You do realize you're very close to making accusations of a conspiracy where the military purposefully targets journalists not embedded with them?Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard for years accusations that the American military tends to murder journalists not under their thumbs. "Accidentally" mistaking them for insurgents, missiles "accidentally" hitting the hotel room where they are staying and so on. The military only likes journalists who say what they are told.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I think he's just borderline retarded. We should be charitable and make allowances for him.Stark wrote:This is the guy who thinks everyone in Gitmo was a terrorist. What do you think?
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I was saying that I've heard them in the past accused of doing just that; of deliberately targeting journalists for death. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. It's not like they haven't done worse.General Schatten wrote:You do realize you're very close to making accusations of a conspiracy where the military purposefully targets journalists not embedded with them?Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard for years accusations that the American military tends to murder journalists not under their thumbs. "Accidentally" mistaking them for insurgents, missiles "accidentally" hitting the hotel room where they are staying and so on. The military only likes journalists who say what they are told.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
It's a fine line between journalism and spying in war time. Being in a war zone is dangerous. Being mistaken for the enemy - whether you're a journalist or something else - is a real possibility. Hell, being shot by your own side is a real possibility. Absolutely it would be better if such things never happened, and I think they should be fully investigated, but it's a little for me to get too worked up over a pair of journalists walking around on, especially, the front lines of a war.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
So you're going entirely off of third person information with no basis in actual facts, but you're still going to throw it out their despite how dishonest that is in a conversation?Lord of the Abyss wrote:I was saying that I've heard them in the past accused of doing just that; of deliberately targeting journalists for death. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. It's not like they haven't done worse.General Schatten wrote:You do realize you're very close to making accusations of a conspiracy where the military purposefully targets journalists not embedded with them?Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard for years accusations that the American military tends to murder journalists not under their thumbs. "Accidentally" mistaking them for insurgents, missiles "accidentally" hitting the hotel room where they are staying and so on. The military only likes journalists who say what they are told.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
General Schatten wrote:So you're going entirely off of third person information with no basis in actual facts, but you're still going to throw it out their despite how dishonest that is in a conversation?
The actual facts are not available. And there's no reason to think they will be soon, if ever."This case is one of quite a few, more than 10 at least, where journalists have been killed by U.S. fire in Iraq and it has not been investigated in a public way," Smyth said. "Once we have information, judgments can be made on whether they were justified."
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
So if you don't have evidence for your assertion why are you making it? With this last post you obvious feel there's validity to a conspiracy for the Armed Forces to purposefully target journalists since you're arguing that there's been a cover-up.Lord of the Abyss wrote:The actual facts are not available. And there's no reason to think they will be soon, if ever.
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
If reporters are going to walk around with armed gunmen in the middle of a freaking warzone, there is a very good chance that they are going to end up being injured and/or killed. If the morons had perhaps alerted us to their presence in one way or another, such an incident probably could have been avoided. US forces would've been ordered to stay out of the area (believe it or not, the Pentagon actually likes to avoid media fiascos when at all possible, which is probably why it is witholding information now), a couple of reporters would've had an awesome story about the "struggle" of insurgents in Iraq, a few insurgents would've lived to plant IEDs and take pot shots at convoys for another day, and the whole matter would've likely been promptly forgetten about outside of anti-war circles.
For the record, how do you figure that the US military is "deliberately" targeting journalists that it doesn't even know about?
For the record, how do you figure that the US military is "deliberately" targeting journalists that it doesn't even know about?
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
Lord of the Abyss is a serial killer. Proof? I don't need no stinking proof!Lord of the Abyss wrote:General Schatten wrote:So you're going entirely off of third person information with no basis in actual facts, but you're still going to throw it out their despite how dishonest that is in a conversation?The actual facts are not available. And there's no reason to think they will be soon, if ever."This case is one of quite a few, more than 10 at least, where journalists have been killed by U.S. fire in Iraq and it has not been investigated in a public way," Smyth said. "Once we have information, judgments can be made on whether they were justified."
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
And you have evidence that they were insurgents? My understanding is that yes they are armed, but every household in Iraq is allowed one Kalashnikov model rifle for each male over the age of eighteen, so it's not unlikely that they were just stupid civilians walking around trying to get their five minutes on camera and made the bad decision to also carry weapons and a case of mistaken identity occured. I may disagree with Abyss' baseless opinion, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let another baseless opinion on the opposite end of the spectrum slide either. Neither of you have provided enough evidence for us to determine what actually happened, but accusations of conspiracy on either side are most definitely uncalled for.Knobbyboy88 wrote:If reporters are going to walk around with armed gunmen in the middle of a freaking warzone, there is a very good chance that they are going to end up being injured and/or killed. If the morons had perhaps alerted us to their presence in one way or another, such an incident probably could have been avoided. US forces would've been ordered to stay out of the area (believe it or not, the Pentagon actually likes to avoid media fiascos when at all possible, which is probably why it is witholding information now), a couple of reporters would've had an awesome story about the "struggle" of insurgents in Iraq, a few insurgents would've lived to plant IEDs and take pot shots at convoys for another day, and the whole matter would've likely been promptly forgetten about outside of anti-war circles.
I suggest you do a search of Abyss' post history, wherein he accuses prior servicemen of lying about their experiences with Iraqis and purposefully targetting civiliansFor the record, how do you figure that the US military is "deliberately" targeting journalists that it doesn't even know about?
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Re: US Army assassinates Journalists.
I can't speak for this incident in particular, but I do know how such things generally tend to play out. Iraqi citizens are allowed to carry AKs. However, a group of heavily armed MAMs (military age males) out and about in public is still never a thing to be sneezed at. Its going to make any Coalition forces near-by uneasy. If they truly were carrying rocket launchers (or the pilots simply mistook the cameras for rocket launchers) on the other hand, things change entirely. The average Iraqi isn't going to have access to those kinds of weapons (let alone be stupid enough to brandish them in public), and the issue becomes a matter of the rules of engagement in place at the time.My understanding is that yes they are armed, but every household in Iraq is allowed one Kalashnikov model rifle for each male over the age of eighteen
Once again, all of these issues could have been avoided entirely if the reporters had simply cleared things with the US military beforehand.
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