Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

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Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Instant Sunrise »

Huffington Post
How could something like this happen in Martin Luther King's home town?

The following occurred about a mile away from my home in Atlanta, Georgia at 11:30 p.m. on Thursday, September 10, 2009.

Mark Danack was watching the football game at his favorite bar, The Eagle, when he heard somebody yell, "HIT THE GROUND!" He thought a fight had broken out. The lights switched on and up to 30 cops were yelling, screaming and ordering everyone to the ground. The police had raided the bar.

For what?

"Shut the f**k up!" a cop yelled at one of the bar patrons who asked why they were being forced to lay face down on the grubby floors.

An acquaintance saw the police shove an 80 year-old man to the ground because he was moving too slowly.

Why?

"No questions! Do what you're told or we'll arrest you!" The officers threatened jail time to anybody asking why they were being held against their will.

The search and seizures began. Everything in everyone's pockets was taken away.

Why?

"None of your G-D business! Get back on the floor and shut the hell up!" Driver's licenses were taken and put through a laptop screening.

What are you looking for?

"I said SHUT THE F**K UP!" Three paddy wagons were waiting outside.

Nick Koperski was enraged. He knew he had done nothing wrong. Yet there he was, lying on the floor, face down, his pockets emptied. He had it better than some of the others, like Du-wan Ray, one of the bar's managers. Ray was handcuffed on the back deck.

Why are you doing this?

"I hate queers," a cop said. Other officers -- some plain-clothed, some uniformed -- walked around the bar demanding to know who was in the military, threatening to report them to their commanding officers.

"This is a lot more fun than raiding niggers with crack!" Du-Wayne Ray heard one white officer say this to another; other cops were high-fiving each other.

For almost two hours, Mark Danack, Nick Koperski, and sixty other gay men were forced to lay face down on the bar's filthy floors. The drivers license screening revealed nothing.

Sixty two men and the cops didn't find a suspended license, a criminal prior, nothing. Not even a parking ticket.

The search and seizure uncovered nothing. No drugs. Not even a joint.

Finally, the men were ordered to leave but without their cell phones, wallets and other personal belongings.

Not a single man was arrested.

Or given an apology.

Or given a reason for why they were held against their will.

Or how they could get their personal possessions back.
I've said as much before and I'll say it again. Law enforcement needs stricter background checks for bigotry, and actions like this are reprehensible and cannot be tolerated at any level.

Police departments cannot tolerate any kind of racial or sexual discrimination, because while an officer might not act on it like the officers in the article, it can impede a police investigation if an officer will allow these kinds of prejudices to influence their decisions.

I hope the victims in the article sue the hell out of the police department, get a settlement, and then get the hell out of an area where behavior like that is tolerated.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by B5B7 »

I wonder if the cops seized the bar's CCTV footage.
The newspaper reports that the event occurred 6 days ago - does anyone have other reports for what happened during those 6 days?
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Darth Raptor »

I'd be curious to hear the other side of the story if this account wasn't so utterly credible. Hell, I'm pleasantly surprised that no one was seriously injured. Seriously, you raid a gay bar and not even a beating? What are all of the other fat Southern cops supposed to think? Atlanta's going soft, that's what.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Instant Sunrise »

One of the problems here which enables this kind of behavior, is that the amount of regulation on alcohol and bars give police officers a carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as the establishment serves alcohol.

Anyway, I've been combing through the news on this, and the official reason that this raid happened was because there were people dancing in underwear without a permit.

That charge carries a very small slap on the wrist and in no way can justify the excessive force used in this.

Anyway, here is a collection of statement from various candidates as well as the police report from the incident.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by dragon »

Hum the police report made for some interesting reading. Wonder if the bar has CCTV.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Instant Sunrise wrote:One of the problems here which enables this kind of behavior, is that the amount of regulation on alcohol and bars give police officers a carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as the establishment serves alcohol.

Anyway, I've been combing through the news on this, and the official reason that this raid happened was because there were people dancing in underwear without a permit.

That charge carries a very small slap on the wrist and in no way can justify the excessive force used in this.

Anyway, here is a collection of statement from various candidates as well as the police report from the incident.
All the alcohol laws allow is for the police to do license checks on the bar itself to verify those who appear under 21 are in fact 21 or over and then the business license itself and other alcohol related laws. It does not give them the right to go into peoples pockets like this and conduct a raid that is similar to those served on suspect drug houses or suspect location of dangerous criminals.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Well, after reading the report I have a few comments. The most important is that had this been sexual acts between men and women it still would have been illegal because the club is not licensed as an adult entertainment club and sexual acts are not allowed in even those clubs.

The second is the Huffington Post was wrong. The police made 8 arrests as documented in their report, and if I'm reading the report correctly those arrested were the employees at the bar. I'd be interested to see what the CCTV cameras have to show. This also makes the response of the take down team more understandable excluding the excessive force and rudeness asserted by the patrons.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Mayabird »

How could something like this happen in Martin Luther King's home town?
I'm only going to comment on this asinine line.

Easily. Homophobia is rampant, the religious people are stupid, and downtown Atlanta has become a magnet for gay people in the Deep South, probably by default. So lots of targets and people who'd target them.

An instructive scene so you understand how bad it is: when Georgia was being its usual backwards self and banning gay marriage, there was a huge debate in the legislature, mostly between the old civil rights activists who've now become part of the power structure, and it was very easy to see which of them were part of the clergy or aligned with the religious part of it and which people were from more secular backgrounds as lawyers or whatever. The secular ones were pointing out that they had struggled against bigotry and most if not all of the anti-gay rhetoric was the same thing thrown at them but with "homosexual" instead of whatever racial term was used. The religious ones just screeched "GAYS ARE EVIL!!!!!! Jesus says so!" while the secular ones were pointing out, "They turned the Bible against us, too Don't you remember? You were there!" But they could not get it through their heads.

When even the people who've been there and done that can't see the point, how do you think everybody else is?

Incidentally, I was glad to see John Lewis listed as a cosponsor for the "Respect for Marriage" act since he was educated in seminaries, but it looks like he does get it.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Well, after reading the report I have a few comments. The most important is that had this been sexual acts between men and women it still would have been illegal because the club is not licensed as an adult entertainment club and sexual acts are not allowed in even those clubs.
That is of course assuming the police report is accurate. It isn't as if southern cops (and cops in general) dont have a long historical record of harassing and otherwise targeting gay people, making up charges etc. I dont need to mention why the Stonewall riots happened do I?

Also: Even if those charges were true, it would not justify the strong arm tactics, confiscation of phones etc.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

Instant Sunrise wrote:One of the problems here which enables this kind of behavior, is that the amount of regulation on alcohol and bars give police officers a carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as the establishment serves alcohol.

Anyway, I've been combing through the news on this, and the official reason that this raid happened was because there were people dancing in underwear without a permit.

That charge carries a very small slap on the wrist and in no way can justify the excessive force used in this.

Anyway, here is a collection of statement from various candidates as well as the police report from the incident.
This is justification for a raid? :wtf: Hell, assuming the report Sith read is accurate (I'm not saying it isn't) and sexual acts were being performed by people at the club, even on a regular basis, shouldn't there be some form of dealing with this other than full on raid or at least steps taken before a raid? I can only imagine what something like that costs to perform. Also, I am assuming they use active duty officers for this type of thing, meaning that patrols would suffer as a result, and that more serious crimes (ie violent) could potentially go unstopped/unpunished while the officers are tied up doing this, or am I completely in error on this line of thinking? This of course isn't even taking into account any kind of potential discrminination issues, which it would seem there is a a higher chance of considering the groups involved and the part of the country it happened in, especially if the eyewitness recollection mentioned in the article is accurate.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Well, after reading the report I have a few comments. The most important is that had this been sexual acts between men and women it still would have been illegal because the club is not licensed as an adult entertainment club and sexual acts are not allowed in even those clubs.
Legality of sexual acts aside, would the raid still have happened if this had been sexual acts between men and women?
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Huh, I guess the Atlanta PD decided to get a little old school. I'm surprised they didn't haul people away on prostitution charges. After all, that's the old classic for arresting gay people in harrassment raids.
Kamikaze Sith wrote:All the alcohol laws allow is for the police to do license checks on the bar itself to verify those who appear under 21 are in fact 21 or over and then the business license itself and other alcohol related laws. It does not give them the right to go into peoples pockets like this and conduct a raid that is similar to those served on suspect drug houses or suspect location of dangerous criminals.
The problem is that the license check is the old excuse to enter the bar to conduct a harrassment raid. In fact, its downright cliche at this point and was part of the behavior on the part of police that was the catalyst for Harvey Milk running for office in San Francisco back in the day. This was because the police would go to a gay bar to do a license check and use it as an excuse to rough up the patrons and haul them off for "resisting law enforcement" or "public lewdness" (note: they consider anything gay people may do in bars a lewd act). This was common enough, and that's what made the Stonewall Riots interesting, because it marked the first time a gay bar actively resisted getting their asses whooped by law enforcement in a harrassment raid.

The classic was for police to set on two gay men (or women) who were together and arrest them both, with both of them simultaneously a male prostitute and the john.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Well, after reading the report I have a few comments. The most important is that had this been sexual acts between men and women it still would have been illegal because the club is not licensed as an adult entertainment club and sexual acts are not allowed in even those clubs.
That is of course assuming the police report is accurate. It isn't as if southern cops (and cops in general) dont have a long historical record of harassing and otherwise targeting gay people, making up charges etc. I dont need to mention why the Stonewall riots happened do I?

Also: Even if those charges were true, it would not justify the strong arm tactics, confiscation of phones etc.
Yes, it is assuming that the police report is true. It is of course up to the city to provide the evidence. However, strong arm tactics is subjective. What you may see as strong arm I see as absolutely necessary for the safety of all involved.

Making everyone go to the ground, and temporarily confiscating cell phones during a raid at a bar or any raid in general in standard procedure due to lessons learned from other raids.

Because the raid is based off probable cause that a large number of patrons are involved in illegal activity it is unsafe to assume that they would not pose a danger in the face of possible arrest. The best method for identifying those who pose a risk is to immediately order all persons to the ground so that all persons are more easily controlled. The cell phone rule comes from past experiences where persons in these situations have called friends to the scene to interfer or straight up attack officers.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Well, after reading the report I have a few comments. The most important is that had this been sexual acts between men and women it still would have been illegal because the club is not licensed as an adult entertainment club and sexual acts are not allowed in even those clubs.
Legality of sexual acts aside, would the raid still have happened if this had been sexual acts between men and women?
I can't say for Atlanta PD. If their VICE unit is anything like my departments VICE unit then absolutely, but my department is on the liberal side of things as far as US police are concerned.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Huh, I guess the Atlanta PD decided to get a little old school. I'm surprised they didn't haul people away on prostitution charges. After all, that's the old classic for arresting gay people in harrassment raids.
Kamikaze Sith wrote:All the alcohol laws allow is for the police to do license checks on the bar itself to verify those who appear under 21 are in fact 21 or over and then the business license itself and other alcohol related laws. It does not give them the right to go into peoples pockets like this and conduct a raid that is similar to those served on suspect drug houses or suspect location of dangerous criminals.
The problem is that the license check is the old excuse to enter the bar to conduct a harrassment raid. In fact, its downright cliche at this point and was part of the behavior on the part of police that was the catalyst for Harvey Milk running for office in San Francisco back in the day. This was because the police would go to a gay bar to do a license check and use it as an excuse to rough up the patrons and haul them off for "resisting law enforcement" or "public lewdness" (note: they consider anything gay people may do in bars a lewd act). This was common enough, and that's what made the Stonewall Riots interesting, because it marked the first time a gay bar actively resisted getting their asses whooped by law enforcement in a harrassment raid.

The classic was for police to set on two gay men (or women) who were together and arrest them both, with both of them simultaneously a male prostitute and the john.
Certainly if that is the case then it is highly illegal and those officers involved should face consequences. However, going off the police report the raid was conducted based off observations made by undercover officers and citizen witnesses in the area who stated that these people were engaged in sexual acts inside and outside the bar.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Havok »

Huffington Post wrote:How could something like this happen in Martin Luther King's home town?
This is pretty funny considering how homophobic black communities in America are.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: Certainly if that is the case then it is highly illegal and those officers involved should face consequences. However, going off the police report the raid was conducted based off observations made by undercover officers and citizen witnesses in the area who stated that these people were engaged in sexual acts inside and outside the bar.
Given that some idiots out there will take something as simple as gay people kissing to be offensive and/or sexual, I'm inclined to take those eye-witness accounts with a very heavy jar of salt.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

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HuffPo wrote:Sixty two men and the cops didn't find a suspended license, a criminal prior, nothing. Not even a parking ticket.

The search and seizure uncovered nothing. No drugs. Not even a joint.
Sixty-two people shaken down in a bar and they didn't find a single warrant, or a joint, or a 1/4 gram of blow or something? That's mind-boggling to me for any drinking establishment...

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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Serafina »

Raw Shark wrote:
HuffPo wrote:Sixty two men and the cops didn't find a suspended license, a criminal prior, nothing. Not even a parking ticket.

The search and seizure uncovered nothing. No drugs. Not even a joint.
Sixty-two people shaken down in a bar and they didn't find a single warrant, or a joint, or a 1/4 gram of blow or something? That's mind-boggling to me for any drinking establishment...
Meh...that only shows that they (the gays) are overly cautious - after all, if such raids are common (unlike in "normal" bars), then you would have to be quite stupid not to take care.

That, or they actually do NOT have that stuff.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Because the raid is based off probable cause that a large number of patrons are involved in illegal activity it is unsafe to assume that they would not pose a danger in the face of possible arrest. The best method for identifying those who pose a risk is to immediately order all persons to the ground so that all persons are more easily controlled. The cell phone rule comes from past experiences where persons in these situations have called friends to the scene to interfer or straight up attack officers.
Sorry Sith but color me skeptical that the real reason is the fact that most phones sold today are video phones and the first thing that happens when the police do a raid is that people with video phones do is whip them out not to call people but to record the event. As we had this discussion during the Bart police shooting and the London protests of this year people are almost condition to do this now anytime the police do anything in front of them. Because time after time since the Rodney King Incident people start recording if not in hopes of catch such an event on film but in case such a event occurs in front of them. And the main reason the cops take phones is prevent them from being filmed doing their job.

Sorry Sith but I can't buy that "they call their friends to come attack officers" excuse when a much more likely reason exists. They do not want to be filmed and taking away cell phones which contain video camera's is the best way to do this.

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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Because the raid is based off probable cause that a large number of patrons are involved in illegal activity it is unsafe to assume that they would not pose a danger in the face of possible arrest. The best method for identifying those who pose a risk is to immediately order all persons to the ground so that all persons are more easily controlled. The cell phone rule comes from past experiences where persons in these situations have called friends to the scene to interfer or straight up attack officers.
Again, assuming the police did not lie WRT to the probable cause. The city needs to provide that evidence when the lawsuit occurs and the police officer's word is not enough here.
Making everyone go to the ground, and temporarily confiscating cell phones during a raid at a bar or any raid in general in standard procedure due to lessons learned from other raids.
Their property was not given back when the raid concluded. Is that standard procedure?
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Stark »

I'm interested in the idea that levels of regulation facilitate this kind of behaviour. In AU, liqour and especially the sex industry is pretty tightly regulated, but if the cops raided for no reason and confiscated a bunch of shit based on nothing, they'd be totally fucked. And our cops are corrupt as hell. Individual cops might throw the weight around on small operators to get cooperation (especially in the sex industry) but any floor manager with a decent knowledge of the law can just tell them to fuck off and there's nothing they can do.

How can there be so little oversight, standards or review of police actions? From an AU perspective, if so many people really have no trouble accepting this and consider entire police departments corrupt/bigoted/arbitrary, the police department has already roundly failed at it's job.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:Certainly if that is the case then it is highly illegal and those officers involved should face consequences. However, going off the police report the raid was conducted based off observations made by undercover officers and citizen witnesses in the area who stated that these people were engaged in sexual acts inside and outside the bar.
Historically speaking, given the history of law enforcements interactions with the homosexual community, "sexual acts" could include anything down to and including dancing together, hand holding, or looking at each other too hard.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Death from the Sea »

Mr Bean wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Because the raid is based off probable cause that a large number of patrons are involved in illegal activity it is unsafe to assume that they would not pose a danger in the face of possible arrest. The best method for identifying those who pose a risk is to immediately order all persons to the ground so that all persons are more easily controlled. The cell phone rule comes from past experiences where persons in these situations have called friends to the scene to interfer or straight up attack officers.
Sorry Sith but color me skeptical that the real reason is the fact that most phones sold today are video phones and the first thing that happens when the police do a raid is that people with video phones do is whip them out not to call people but to record the event. As we had this discussion during the Bart police shooting and the London protests of this year people are almost condition to do this now anytime the police do anything in front of them. Because time after time since the Rodney King Incident people start recording if not in hopes of catch such an event on film but in case such a event occurs in front of them. And the main reason the cops take phones is prevent them from being filmed doing their job.

Sorry Sith but I can't buy that "they call their friends to come attack officers" excuse when a much more likely reason exists. They do not want to be filmed and taking away cell phones which contain video camera's is the best way to do this.
Bean, the reason KS gave is perfectly reasonable, not only could they call others to the scene but also could call and warn those in any possible back room or those that may be on the way to stay away. Also, while less likely, there are cell phone guns and that is a safety issue as well.

As for people making a video of the incident, most officers would welcome a video as it would help prove their side of the story. Kinda like how people complain about what they were told during a traffic stop and the car video being able to show different. Video is very welcome ally of the police.
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Re: Police in Atlanta raid gay bar because they could.

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Video is an ally of the police unless the police are knowingly engaged in illegal acts. It's very difficult for me to give the police the benefit of the doubt for the already stated reason that there is a very long history of LGBT harassment from the police department in US History.
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