The MMA thread (mk1)

[Edward Yee]

DREAM.10 has happened, with Marius Zaromskis winning the Welterweight Grand Prix and championship by left high-kicking both "Mach" Sakurai (semi) and Jason High (final) to hell and looking like a storm. Katsunori Kikuno (from kyokushin karate) beat Andre Dida by "weirdness" (seriously, his stand-up stance is to hold his hands out paw-down like a cat and smile, as his psyched-out Muay Thai opponent paws at his hands) followed by takedown to ground and pound. Oh, and Melvin Manhoef still has no ground game. DREAM.11 is on and will continue both the Featherweight GP and Super Hulk tourney, hence Mousasi vs. Sokoudjou and Minowaman vs. Hong Man Choi.

SENGOKU 9 has happened, and POOR Akihiro Gono. That is all.

[Zadius]

SENGOKU 9 has happened, and POOR Akihiro Gono. That is all.

Yeah I saw that. I was sad that the UFC cut Gono. He went 0-2 against Hardy and Fitch, but still looked pretty good I thought. But, he didn't do so well against Hornbuckle.

In other news, Fedor and Jacare both signed with Strikeforce. There's also a new alliance between DREAM and Strikeforce. Hopefully, that will make for some good fights. Robbie Lawler vs. Melvin Manhoef maybe?

EDIT: Oooh, Sakuraba vs. Frank Shamrock! Make it happen, Coker!

[Big Phil]

Any predictions for Strikeforce next weekend?

[Zadius]

Any predictions for Strikeforce next weekend?

I'm picking Cyborg, Babalu, Diaz, Ishida, and Werdum. I think Cyborg is going to be too strong for Gina. I also think Babalu is going to ruin Mousasi's 205 debut, but I'm kind of hopeful that Mousasi does well. I just wish he'd stayed at 185.

[Edward Yee]

The thing is Mousasi is (apparently) closer to legit heavyweight, coming in at 216 against Musashi at K-1 Dynamite!! 2008, so it's less weight to cut.

[Edward Yee]

Poor Amir Sadollah, and OH SHIT ANDERSON, that reminded me of Machida!

EDIT: Oh, and once Penn took down KenFlo it was over from there. R4 RNC

[aerius]

Now that's the Anderson Silva I like to see. Not only did he knock Forrest senseless, he made it look so damned easy. He had his hands down and Forrest couldn't even touch him, then boom, straight punch right on the chin that snapped Forrest's head around and dropped him for good. It was ridiculous.

Kenny got stupid, as soon as he got rocked a bit early in the fight he went straight to pushing BJ against the fence along with clinching and trying to get a takedown. Newsflash, you're not GSP, in fact you're not even known to have good takedowns or decent wrestling, and you're trying to takedown the guy with the best takedown defence in the lightweight division? Are you dumb? You're just wasting your time & energy. You stick with what works and use your strengths, and that's hitting him with legkicks from the outside. BJ doesn't use kicks, so don't box or clinch with him, stay outside and outpoint him with kicks.

[Edward Yee]

Now that's the Anderson Silva I like to see. Not only did he knock Forrest senseless, he made it look so damned easy. He had his hands down and Forrest couldn't even touch him, then boom, straight punch right on the chin that snapped Forrest's head around and dropped him for good. It was ridiculous.

So... Lyoto Machida vs. Anderson Silva? Yes? No? Should it headline or curtain jerk?

For anyone lurking who's wondering why we're so stoked over this fellow: THIS. Well, that, and

Conflicting reports have Griffin either injured (dislocated jaw and hearing loss) or "doing a Sean Sherk at UFC 98" in fleeing the Octagon. Either way, he's the new Sonny Liston.

[Edward Yee]

Ed Soares is now denying that he ever went to Dana White backstage at 101 and offered a permanent move for Silva to 205, along with vacating the middleweight belt.

Also, I'm starting to nitpick Machida vs. Thiago Silva for anything Shogun might take from that fight for gameplanning...

Oh, and Jon Jones vs. Jake O'Brien from UFC 100 is making it to TV, when a Spike TV broadcast of part of UFC 100 (all of the main card except GSP vs. Alves plus three undercard fights) airs against Carano vs. Cyborg. HELL YES for Jon Jones on Spike TV!

[Zadius]

Well, Cyborg won as expected. But, it was Mousasi that impressed me the most tonight. Maybe 205 is right for him after all. Never in a million years did I expect him to slam Babalu to the ground and KO him in the first round. I was sure Babalu would have the wrestling advantage. Who else does SF have at LHW now?

[Meest]

Terrible Carano-Cyborg fight, did they both forget their muay thai skills? Was pure sloppy brawling complete with giving up full mounts. It was like they were both surprised they could hurt each other and wanted no part of it. Maybe would have been better with 3 minute rounds.

[Edward Yee]

Notable purses:
Carano: $125,000 (the first female MMA fighter to break six figures purse-wise)
Babalu: $75,000
Hieron: $25,000+$30,000 win bonus
Werdum: $25,000+$25,000 win bonus
Ishida: $30,000
Cyborg: $20,000+$5,000 win bonus
Mousasi: $2,000+$0 win bonus (same as two of the preliminary card losing fighters)

Something looks suspicious here...

[aerius]

That was a quick end to the Demian Maia hypetrain, I haven't seen a guy get flattened like that since Arlovski tried his flying knee on Fedor. Nate timed him with a perfect punch and literally knocked him right off his feet and laid him out flat out in midair. Maia falls face first on the canvas and that was the end of that. And there's a bunch of people saying how Maia's going to be the guy who gives Anderson Silva problems, yeah, sure, if Nate could floor him like that I'd hate to see what Silva could do.

Chris Leben lost again which always makes me happy. In a replay of his fight against Jason MacDonald, Leben was choked out cold, this time with a sweet arm triangle. Even better, you see him twitch after he gets choked out. Man, I never get tired of seeing Leben get finished.

Jardine needs to stop fighting guys named Silva, it just doesn't end well for him. Thiago took a minute longer than Wandy, but he floored Jardine with a good punch and pounded him out cold when he went down.

Nogueira vs. Couture was a classic which had everything. There was some nice technical striking, some parts where they brawled it out, a ridiculously easy looking sweep by Nog to get out from under Couture, and couple nice submission escapes by Randy. I can't remember the last time Big Nog's looked this good, his boxing was sharp and he knocked down Couture a couple times with some hard punches, and it looks like he's got his legendary toughness back since he got hit with some hard punches by Randy and didn't look hurt at all. This was a fight which I wish was a 5 rounder.

[Edward Yee]

That was a quick end to the Demian Maia hypetrain, I haven't seen a guy get flattened like that since Arlovski tried his flying knee on Fedor. Nate timed him with a perfect punch and literally knocked him right off his feet and laid him out flat out in midair. Maia falls face first on the canvas and that was the end of that. And there's a bunch of people saying how Maia's going to be the guy who gives Anderson Silva problems, yeah, sure, if Nate could floor him like that I'd hate to see what Silva could do.

Even if Silva isn't at Maia's level on the ground, all he has to do is not go to the ground. What this DID expose... is that god tier BJJ does not help when you cannot throw a kick without:
1) telegraphing it a lot, i.e. with that initial step in, and
2) stepping in way too close for it to actually connect properly.

Look at how Lyoto Machida threw his kicks in his past three fights, compared to what Maia did.

Jardine needs to stop fighting guys named Silva, it just doesn't end well for him. Thiago took a minute longer than Wandy, but he floored Jardine with a good punch and pounded him out cold when he went down.

Why do people yell at him when he loses anyway? Well, at least he doesn't have to go home to just his wife anymore.

[weemadando]

Having finally finished watching UFC102, can I just say that Gonzaga v Tuscherer is the most painful fight I've ever seen.

Also - I will NEVER get sick of watching Chris Leben lose brain cells.

And now to watch (hopefully) CB Dollaway and Melvin Guillard get tapped. Again.

And then watch some Black on Black crime.

[Edward Yee]

Having finally finished watching UFC102, can I just say that Gonzaga v Tuscherer is the most painful fight I've ever seen.

Then you have not seen Jon Madsen (Team Rashad) vs. Abe Wagner (Team Rampage), UNHOLY SHIT. I have no idea why Abe was allowed to continue past round 1, but the scores for the two rounds were 20-17, 20-17, and 20-16, it was that bad.

Also - I will NEVER get sick of watching Chris Leben lose brain cells.

Ehhhhhh... I just hope that Leben taking shots doesn't become the new "Sokonojudogate" (thanks to a Bloody Elbow commenter for the "Sokonojudo" joke name).

And now to watch (hopefully) CB Dollaway and Melvin Guillard get tapped. Again.

Actually, (perhaps) amazingly, CB Dollaway took it by decision! Kudos on Guillard tapping though. Diaz took home Sub of the Night for that; probably because Roger Huerta just refused to tap to a kimura long enough to eventually escape, though he lost by split decision.

On the undercard, Brian Stann won the rubber match with Steve Cantwell by unanimous decision... no idea how many people cared, though. (Oh how low his stock has fallen in the public eye...) Oh, and Sam Stout vs. Phillipe Nover was cancelled after Nover suffered a seizure while sitting in his locker room. Reading that Steinglass got robbed, so the night's a mixed bag.

[weemadando]

Well, Quarry v Credeur was amazing. Then Condit v Ellenberger was also awesome.

Gray Maynard gave Huerta a much too nice send-off. I was expecting him to just grind him out on the ground for a boring decision to end his career.

And watching Guillard I was REALLY impressed by how much he has improved in nearly every way. It was really great to watch.

Sad to hear about Nover - that was a fight I would have liked to have seen.

[The Spartan]

Having finally finished watching UFC102, can I just say that Gonzaga v Tuscherer is the most painful fight I've ever seen.

Then you have not seen Jon Madsen (Team Rashad) vs. Abe Wagner (Team Rampage), UNHOLY SHIT. I have no idea why Abe was allowed to continue past round 1, but the scores for the two rounds were 20-17, 20-17, and 20-16, it was that bad.

Did you see the after-fight footage where the medic was examining his scalp? It was split to the skull along a good 3 inches I'd say. The amount of blood was ridiculous, it was just pouring off of him.

[weemadando]

The cut was bad, but Stitch was able to stop the bleeding between rounds and the blood wasn't going into the eyes. That said - given the performance from those two I'm concerned that the UFC might have tried to bring in some cans in the hope that they can get Kimbo past the first round of the show.

Jon Madsen showed off the gameplan that everyone from his camp uses and was able to execute it nicely. I have no idea what Abe Wagner was talking about when he said his Jits would help him on the ground, because that boy didn't work for anything, even when there were golden opportunities to sweep or go for a submission.

[The Spartan]

The cut was bad, but Stitch was able to stop the bleeding between rounds and the blood wasn't going into the eyes.

Yeah but the cut opened right back up almost as soon as the round began because he got taken down and pounded on right away. True it wasn't going into his eyes and I don't think they should have stopped the fight at that point, but it was still the bloodiest fight I've ever seen.

That said - given the performance from those two I'm concerned that the UFC might have tried to bring in some cans in the hope that they can get Kimbo past the first round of the show.

The same thing occurred to me; he is after all big for their publicity. I also wonder if it's also because the talent is "thinner" in that weight division. Guys that size I typically see in WWE for instance. And roided out of their skulls I might add. To be fair, I haven't been watching UFC or the Ultimate fighter that long so there might be (is) some selection bias in that observation.

[weemadando]

The cut was bad, but Stitch was able to stop the bleeding between rounds and the blood wasn't going into the eyes.

Yeah but the cut opened right back up almost as soon as the round began because he got taken down and pounded on right away. True it wasn't going into his eyes and I don't think they should have stopped the fight at that point, but it was still the bloodiest fight I've ever seen.

BJ Penn v Joe Stevenson was pretty bloody - and created one of the greatest quotes in sports history: "That cut was the size of a goat's vagina."

That said - given the performance from those two I'm concerned that the UFC might have tried to bring in some cans in the hope that they can get Kimbo past the first round of the show.

The same thing occurred to me; he is after all big for their publicity. I also wonder if it's also because the talent is "thinner" in that weight division. Guys that size I typically see in WWE for instance. And roided out of their skulls I might add. To be fair, I haven't been watching UFC or the Ultimate fighter that long so there might be (is) some selection bias in that observation.

There is a decent level of talent at heavyweight, but many of the top tier athletes at that weight end up playing Football or Basketball rather than being channelled into MMA like in many lighter divisions. The talent in this season just seems wildly varying, on the one hand you have Roy Nelson, who despite being a hambeast has made a living out of pummelling serious professional fighters. On the other you have guys who are clearly in "gym" shape or in some other "shape" that certainly isn't ring ready and have spotty (at best) records. And then you have Kimbo. The less said about him the better.

[Darth Fanboy]

Will the more learned MMA fans kindly explain to me if A) Kimbo Slice has a realistic shot at making it through Ultimate Fighter and/or B) if his being in the UFC has any long term benefit?

[weemadando]

Kimbo, unless he has significantly improved has a very slim chance of making it through. He's there for a payday.

Which links into point b) There are two outcomes here, both of which are completely acceptable to the UFC.
1) Kimbo is handled by some no name, this time infront of a way bigger audience. Dana talks yet more smack, this time with smugness dialled up to 11. Also, this time it won't result in a promotion dying.
2) Kimbo makes it through, they put Kimbo against Brock and have the biggest PPV event in history, then pay Kimbo's medical bills for the rest of his life.

[The Spartan]

*snip* bloody fight pics

Ah, then it's my relative inexperience with UFC then, having not seen that fight.

There is a decent level of talent at heavyweight, but many of the top tier athletes at that weight end up playing Football or Basketball rather than being channelled into MMA like in many lighter divisions. The talent in this season just seems wildly varying, on the one hand you have Roy Nelson, who despite being a hambeast has made a living out of pummelling serious professional fighters. On the other you have guys who are clearly in "gym" shape or in some other "shape" that certainly isn't ring ready and have spotty (at best) records. And then you have Kimbo. The less said about him the better.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. The truly big guys are generally in another sport and tend to not be athletic enough to be a "true" UFC fighter (think linemen here). The ones that are athletic enough, again get funneled into other sports, like you say, and generally thrive if they don't get badly hurt, or end up in WWE. I'm speaking very, very generally here, of course.

Hell, look at how a couple of the ex-football guys were complaining about their fitness and having to adjust. It's not that they're out of shape, they're just not in MMA shape. That doesn't mean that I would count them out, but it does put them at a disadvantage.

Honestly, I'd love to see Kimbo get put up against one of the top tier UFC heavyweights right now instead of going through the Ultimate Fighter, just to see him get owned by a real MMA fighter. I mean I get that he's got "street cred" and a lot of buzz around him because of the internet and what not, but enough's enough.

[weemadando]

Honestly, I'd love to see Kimbo get put up against one of the top tier UFC heavyweights right now instead of going through the Ultimate Fighter, just to see him get owned by a real MMA fighter. I mean I get that he's got "street cred" and a lot of buzz around him because of the internet and what not, but enough's enough.

The last fight Kimbo had was against a guy who failed to make it through the first season of TUF, had one UFC fight and lost, then was fighting at Light Heavyweight and stepped up to fight Kimbo on hours notice.

And here's what happened.


That's him fighting a guy who was a weight division below him and though good, was nowhere near top-flight in terms of his abilities. To see him fight anyone currently in the UFC Heavyweight division would be at best a beatdown and at worst, in some way illegal.