watching B5 for the first time and it seems good

[McC]

I mean, even the whole King Arthur episode of B5 was a good character study on G'Kar

"And they made a very satisfying thump."

[Garibaldi]

I never made it half-way through Season 4 and I really can't fathom why this series gets so much praise for its writing. I mean, that is supposed to be its main strength, right? I can forgive the low production values and I can sort-of forgive the generally low quality of the acting but the writing is just awful. Some of the characters were well-written; the Centauri, Morden, some of G'Kar's bits. But just read this:

Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.

I can just visualize whoever wrote it thinking "Oh man, SO badass" but its so forced it ends up dropping on the floor like a wet turd.

[Anguirus]

^ I agree that JMS is a bit hit-or-miss, but I do rather like that line, and its delivery.

I also don't agree that the acting is "generally of low quality." Most of the regular actors were superb. The style of the show is a bit melodramatic, which bothers some people, but I wouldn't cast any of that blame to the actors.

[Stofsk]

^ I agree that JMS is a bit hit-or-miss, but I do rather like that line, and its delivery.

I also don't agree that the acting is "generally of low quality." Most of the regular actors were superb. The style of the show is a bit melodramatic, which bothers some people, but I wouldn't cast any of that blame to the actors.

Are you kidding me? The acting was the weakest part of B5.

[Stark]

Much of the acting is okay, but as he says when they try to be hardcore awesome it comes off horrible. G'kar was great... unless he was being a complete moron like in the Arthur episode (G'kar is a credulous, violent drunken retard who consorts with mental patients, lol). Londo seldom had anything but solid character work, but if he had to be a more 'actiony' character he have shit lines too.

[Anguirus]

Michael O'Hare: lots of people don't like him, I thought he was adequate at playing a highly disturbed character.

Jerry Doyle: Like of like a cheaper Bruce Willis, which is good cause I like Bruce Willis. I thought he was great interacting with Londo, G'Kar, Sheridan...he also did a serviceable job in making his turn in season 4 seem just like a slightly exaggerated version of his normal self. rather than just being mind-controlled. Also good the second (not the first) time he went off the wagon.

Claudia Christian: could do funny and dramatic very well. See her very last scene on the show for some of her best acting.

Bruce Boxleitner: had an exceptionally tough task when he came in in season 2, but he barreled ahead and made me a fan. Sometimes overly melodramatic, especially towards the end, but I love him in "Z'Ha'Dum."

Mira Furlan: See above for one of her best episodes. Her speeches were hit-or-miss. Loved her in the Great Machine episode of Season 1. And then there's "Sleeping in Light," where she and Boxleitner are so good it's spooky.

Peter Jurasik: You're kidding, right?

Andreas Katsulas: You're FUCKING kidding, right?

Richard Biggs: Always liked him, he made that tough "drugs" subplot pretty believable, not to mention the conflict with his father.

Tracy Scoggins: Her big scene with Jerry Doyle in season 5 blows me away.

Patricia Tallman: I'd say she's pretty good for a stuntwoman who was cast primarily for the way she looked.

Andrea Thompson: Pulled off some tough scenes.

Jason Carter: Consistently hilarious. His romance with Ivanova was not my favorite plotline but he was so earnest that it kinda worked.

Stephen Furst: Went from a joke character to a hero and never once did it seem inconsistent or forced. Some of his best stuff is in "Sleeping in Light."

Bill Mumy: Got involved in the writing of his character and pulled off one of the show's most consistently moving subplots.

Jeff Conaway: Let's see, he came for a walk-on part as a security guard and was a regular less than a year later.He doesn't get a whole episode to be awesome the way some of the above actors did but I loved what he brought to the show. His scenes with Garibaldi in the "mutiny arc" are all good, as is his bit in "In the Shadows of Z'Ha'Dum."

[Patrick Degan]

Stephen Furst: Went from a joke character to a hero and never once did it seem inconsistent or forced. Some of his best stuff is in "Sleeping in Light."

He also had one of the best scenes in the whole series —his answer to Mr. Morden's question of what he wanted:

I want to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favours come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this (gestures). Do you think you and your associates could arrange this for me?

[Samuel]

You don't do it justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0n2vurSBIQ

The gesture really sells it.

[Stofsk]

*snip*

Since we're arguing subjective tastes I'd suggest we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[Darth Nostril]

You don't do it justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0n2vurSBIQ

The gesture really sells it.

And he got exactly what he wanted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DfQcHMYLY&NR=1

It's the sideways glance at the escorting guards first that just sells it.

[Jade Falcon]

In my opinion, the trouble with B5 wasn't the cheap sets or the sometimes variable acting, it was that too many questions were left unanswered.
Spoiler

For instance....what really happened to Talia Winters. We saw that Kosh seemed to take a 'copy' of her personality in Season 1, even after she was revealed to be a Psi Corp plant Garibaldi mentioned this. Bester did say she had been dissected, but in my opinion that was to get a rise out of Garibaldi to make it easier to read him.

What finally did happen to Lennier?

The Telepath War, barely mentioned and just touched on in Crusade, what did happen to Lyta finally.

[Parallax]

I believe a lot of those loose ends were tied up in the B5 novels.

[Batman]

Excuse me for believing the lose ends left in a TV series should be tied up in, you know, the TV series. I'm glad they got tied up at all but if I have to buy some books to find out how a storyline from the series wound up the producers of that series did something wrong (if not necessarily voluntarily).

[Parallax]

Oh, I agree.

That being said, you can understand why everything wasn't tied up neatly in the TV series - the exact same reason that the shadow war ended so soon (and made most of season 5 nothing but filler) - that JMS didn't know what was going to happen with scheduling/season renewal/etc.

So yeah, it would have been nice to see a lot more explained/tied up/ended but in a few cases it wasn't feasible with the given circumstances.

At least, that's the way I've heard the story. Or it might be a load of bollocks and the writers cared as much about Lyta's story as the other main characters did.

[Uraniun235]

Spoiler

The copy of Talia was supposed to have come into play when the traitor program went off - Kosh would have put the copy back into place and Talia would still be around to help Our Heroes as the token telepath. When the actress decided she wanted out, she was just never restored. That's enough of a resolution for me - even the best-laid plans can only go so far against the realities of television production.

[Anguirus]

Spoiler

^ Agreed, but in that case I would have dropped out the "Garibaldi has flashback" scene in "Divided Loyalties." I watch the show with a lot of people and they all get excited that Garibaldi's going to talk to Kosh, and then...he doesn't. By the time "Divided Loyalties" was filmed they already knew that Andrea Thompson wasn't coming back, which is the reason why the Ivanova-Winters relationship advanced so far, so fast.

As far as those other mysteries, JMS is sitting on the question of Lennier's fate, but IMO it is wrapped up sufficiently in the last two episodes. Lyta's fate is revealed in one of the Bester books but not in a lot of detail.

Personally, I'm bugged by the disappearance of the Great Machine from the show's plotline. I know they had issues with the guys playing Draal but even a few lines dropped in Season 5 would have been nice.

[Tsyroc]

I never made it half-way through Season 4 and I really can't fathom why this series gets so much praise for its writing. I mean, that is supposed to be its main strength, right? I can forgive the low production values and I can sort-of forgive the generally low quality of the acting but the writing is just awful. Some of the characters were well-written; the Centauri, Morden, some of G'Kar's bits. But just read this:

Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.

I can just visualize whoever wrote it thinking "Oh man, SO badass" but its so forced it ends up dropping on the floor like a wet turd.

I don't mind those lines by Delenn. I really, really, really hate the ones by Ivanova... Spoiler

when she's leading a White Star fleet against the Shadow Omega Destroyers. It's just so embarrassingly dick wavingly over-the-top.

More on the writing front. Spoiler

I had some issues with how "perfectly" the stuff with Garibaldi, Bester, Edgars and Sheridan worked out. I can buy Garibaldi getting screwed with so he no longer wants to work for Sheridan since that played on some real concerns (the cult of personality) but it was just too convenient that he happened to get hired by the exact guy that the Psi Corps needed him to be hired by so he could uncover the plot against telepaths. Throw in the bonus that Garibaldi's true love is married to the guy who hires him etc....etc...

[Tsyroc]

Michael O'Hare: lots of people don't like him, I thought he was adequate at playing a highly disturbed character.

I didn't mind him when the show started but by his later appearances in the show he was so-so at best.

Doyle: Like of like a cheaper Bruce Willis, which is good cause I like Bruce Willis. I thought he was great interacting with Londo, G'Kar, Sheridan...he also did a serviceable job in making his turn in season 4 seem just like a slightly exaggerated version of his normal self. rather than just being mind-controlled. Also good the second (not the first) time he went off the wagon.

Pretty much bang on to how I feel, down to the Bruce Willis stuff.

Christian: could do funny and dramatic very well. See her very last scene on the show for some of her best acting.

Agreed. I only have a problem with some lines (mentioned in another post) her character was given otherwise I think she was very good.

Tracy Scoggins: Her big scene with Jerry Doyle in season 5 blows me away.

I didn't like her that much, but I think that has more to do with how the character was written. All that thinking out loud rambling. By the time she was on the show I think I was getting too used to JMS writing and some attributes of his characters were starting to seem repetitive. At least that's my personal justification for not caring for Lockely all that much.

Pat Tallman: I'd say she's pretty good for a stuntwoman who was cast primarily for the way she looked.

I also like that she used to post fairly regularly on the Lyta section of AOL's B5 boards.

Jeff Conaway: Let's see, he came for a walk-on part as a security guard and was a regular less than a year later.He doesn't get a whole episode to be awesome the way some of the above actors did but I loved what he brought to the show. His scenes with Garibaldi in the "mutiny arc" are all good, as is his bit in "In the Shadows of Z'Ha'Dum."

I didn't think much of him. I thought there were a few glaring examples where he wasn't believable. I vaguely recall him trying to hold someone back as he yells to get someone else out of there. Didn't work for me. He did do a good job on the personal interactions with Garibaldi and Lyta. On the other stuff it's too bad that they seem to have gotten rid of the bald guy who was Garibaldi's right hand guy earlier in the series.

[Jade Falcon]

You mean Lou Welch, he pops up in the Centauri Prime books by Peter David. I quite liked him, he seemed believable.

[Tsyroc]

You mean Lou Welch, he pops up in the Centauri Prime books by Peter David. I quite liked him, he seemed believable.

That's the guy.

I could believe he was angry, not so with Zach.

I would have preferred they keep them both around. Can't see Lou having any sort of relationship with Lyta.