Communicating / questing in Mass Effect

[Vympel]

Why call the council? Especially when your ship is planetside and you need to be there to conference with them. That also defeats the purpose of having Spectre autonomy. Spectres operate all the time in environments where communications may not be secure or convenient for real-time conferencing. That's why they're given virtual carte blanche when it comes to their operations.

Ah, I see what you're talking about now (Stofsk and I have been debating over sms).

The problem here was that Spectre autonomy wasn't called for. It was a false dilemma that you didn't need to make a decision about. You could've just left her there, or called the Council and asked for a decision on the spot, or whatever.

This is simply poor writing that could've been circumvented by changing the scenario. - they even lampshade this bad writing by having Kaidan say it should've been left to the Council!

That still doesn't change the fact you need a damn phone. It's ridiculous having to see every dingus who's ever given you a quest face to face in order to complete it, and a total time waster.

[Stofsk]

Why call the council? Especially when your ship is planetside and you need to be there to conference with them. That also defeats the purpose of having Spectre autonomy. Spectres operate all the time in environments where communications may not be secure or convenient for real-time conferencing. That's why they're given virtual carte blanche when it comes to their operations.

Ah, I see what you're talking about now (Stofsk and I have been debating over sms).

The problem here was that Spectre autonomy wasn't called for. It was a false dilemma that you didn't need to make a decision about. You could've just left her there, or called the Council and asked for a decision on the spot, or whatever.

This is simply poor writing that could've been circumvented by changing the scenario. - they even lampshade this bad writing by having Kaidan say it should've been left to the Council!

The only problem I have with that scene is that it's awkward. It fits inbetween waxing Benezia and completing the mission in the labs. A slight change - making the Queen in the process of escaping, like Stark suggests - would have improved that scene to the point where you can't stop everything and call the council (like i want to talk to those retards anyway) and you have to deal with it right then and there.

I like that scene because it was unexpected and threw me - "I thought the Rachni were extinct" (I pay attention to the codex lol) - so I give it a bit of leeway. But criticising it because you don't drop everything and call the council doesn't strike me as reasonable. Otherwise why stop there? Why not stop at every speed bump and call the council - also, it seems like your ship needs to be in space to be in range of the Mass Relay network to call the council, and on Noveria you're dirtside.

That still doesn't change the fact you need a damn phone. It's ridiculous having to see every dingus who's ever given you a quest face to face in order to complete it, and a total time waster.

Some of the missions you get face-to-face are sensitive - ADM Kohuku's a SpecOps commander who's team (on a secret mission) goes missing. Reporting back to him face-to-face is only appropriate. (LOL Lets use comms/phones when we don't know who might be listening!) Another one is that Asari bitch who asks you save her sister - only it turns out that she's a pirate and she actually wanted you to kill her in the process of 'saving' her. She explicitly mentions how she wants to keep things quiet. Again, talking face-to-face is only appropriate. Most of the side quest missions though are handled by talking to ADM Lance Henrikson on the Normandy after you get picked up.

Your other point (on SMS) that it costs millions of dollars everytime you return to the citadel is a bit specious isn't it? Either it doesn't cost much for your ship to keep returning to the citadel anyway, or you need to restock and resupply. Since it seems the galactic exploration aspect has evolved for ME2 to take into account fuel-supply, I have no problem with accepting periodic returns to the Citadel. Not only for the above reasons to conduct mission debriefs face-to-face (which makes sense for the more discrete sidequests), but also to refuel (IF it's an issue... and if it's not an issue, then... there's no problem)

[Stark]

Do you think the exploration in ME2 will have evolved to the point where time matters, allowing the ludicrously misleading ME introduction to actually happen?

Neither do I.

[Vympel]

The only problem I have with that scene is that it's awkward. It fits inbetween waxing Benezia and completing the mission in the labs. A slight change - making the Queen in the process of escaping, like Stark suggests - would have improved that scene to the point where you can't stop everything and call the council (like i want to talk to those retards anyway) and you have to deal with right then and there.

I like that scene because it was unexpected and threw me - "I thought the Rachni were extinct" (I pay attention to the codex lol) - so I give it a bit of leeway. But criticising it because you don't drop everything and call the council doesn't strike me as reasonable. Otherwise why stop there? Why not stop at every speed bump and call the council - also, it seems like your ship needs to be in space to be in range of the Mass Relay network to call the council, and on Noveria you're dirtside.

If Mass Effect wasn't Bioware's own IP, the limitations of communications might be an excuse, but they can make up anything they want. Gameplay wise, it's poorly written. I liked it too, but my first reaction was "why do I have to decide this now? You're not going anywhere". It's frankly not fair that they put the sort of decision on you without the option to not make a decision at all.

Another way they could've changed this perhaps is have Benezia start a timed sequence to acid bath the Rachni Queen. So you can either save her, or let her die.

Some of the missions you get face-to-face are sensitive - ADM Kohuku's a SpecOps commander who's team (on a secret mission) goes missing. Reporting back to him face-to-face is only appropriate. (LOL Lets use comms/phones when we don't know who might be listening!)

It's called encryption / code, dude. What's ridiculous is having to report the completion of a mission in person. Further, remember, at that point in the game "who might be listening" isn't even an issue (if it ever would be - the Shadow Broker has no problem doing this) - there was no hint it was Cerberus until later.

Another one is that Asari bitch who asks you save her sister - only it turns out that she's a pirate and she actually wanted you to kill her in the process of 'saving' her. She explicitly mentions how she wants to keep things quiet. Again, talking face-to-face is only appropriate. Most of the side quest missions though are handled by talking to ADM Lance Henrikson on the Normandy after you get picked up.

Again, encryption / code. Simply having a conversation over comms (she's a diplomat, she has her channels) is not going to blow the whole thing wide open.

In essence, think about what you're saying - in a war, will the entire galaxy revert to message courier ships because of *whisper* who might be listening? Course not. It's inane.

Your other point (on SMS) that it costs millions of dollars everytime you return to the citadel is a bit specious isn't it? Either it doesn't cost much for your ship to keep returning to the citadel anyway, or it you need to to restock or resupply. Since it seems the galactic exploration aspect has evolved for ME2 to take into account fuel-supply, I have no problem with accepting periodic returns to the Citadel. Not only for the above reasons to conduct mission debriefs face-to-face (which makes sense for the more discrete sidequests), but also to refuel (IF it's an issue and if it's not an issue, then... there's no problem)

No, it's pointing out the flaws in their design / writing. They put a lot of effort into making their own IP, but apparently no one considers that it does indeed cost millions of dollars to keep a ship going and everytime you burn fuel to go somewhere you don't really need to go to that's money thrown directly in the toilet. If they have refuelling in ME2 that's a good thing, but it can't be used to justify the sillyness of meeting so many useless people face to to face in the original.

[Stofsk]

If Mass Effect wasn't Bioware's own IP, the limitations of communications might be an excuse, but they can make up anything they want. Gameplay wise, it's poorly written. I liked it too, but my first reaction was "why do I have to decide this now? You're not going anywhere". It's frankly not fair that they put the sort of decision on you without the option to not make a decision at all.

Why isn't communications limits not an excuse just because it's their own IP? So long as they're consistent with their limits, there's no problem, and if there's no limits then I would be the one calling it weak writing.

Another way they could've changed this perhaps is have Benezia start a timed sequence to acid bath the Rachni Queen. So you can either save her, or let her die.

I favour Stark's idea instead. Benezia was a bit too busy trying to kill you to spare the time to try and kill the Rachni Queen, for no purpose. Having the Queen instead attempt to escape is a more elegant fix.

Some of the missions you get face-to-face are sensitive - ADM Kohuku's a SpecOps commander who's team (on a secret mission) goes missing. Reporting back to him face-to-face is only appropriate. (LOL Lets use comms/phones when we don't know who might be listening!)

It's called encryption / code, dude. What's ridiculous is having to report the completion of a mission in person. Further, remember, at that point in the game "who might be listening" isn't even an issue (if it ever would be - the Shadow Broker has no problem doing this) - there was no hint it was Cerberus until later.

Still, you drop down on the planet and find the team and they're all dead - and the result was "ITS A TRAP!!!" So again, to reiterate, showing discretion is the better part of valour and while you do not know that its Cerberus its clear whoever is responsible has non-trivial resources at their disposal to get the drop on a SpecOps team.

Another one is that Asari bitch who asks you save her sister - only it turns out that she's a pirate and she actually wanted you to kill her in the process of 'saving' her. She explicitly mentions how she wants to keep things quiet. Again, talking face-to-face is only appropriate. Most of the side quest missions though are handled by talking to ADM Lance Henrikson on the Normandy after you get picked up.

Again, encryption / code. Simply having a conversation over comms (she's a diplomat, she has her channels) is not going to blow the whole thing wide open.

It won't? She's the one giving the sidequest so if she wants the report in person then its on her terms. Just because she's a diplomat doesn't mean she has a secure channel.

In essence, think about what you're saying - in a war, will the entire galaxy revert to message courier ships because of *whisper* who might be listening? Course not. It's inane.

In war, expedience might matter more - but in peacetime? And she's a civilian.

Your other point (on SMS) that it costs millions of dollars everytime you return to the citadel is a bit specious isn't it? Either it doesn't cost much for your ship to keep returning to the citadel anyway, or it you need to to restock or resupply. Since it seems the galactic exploration aspect has evolved for ME2 to take into account fuel-supply, I have no problem with accepting periodic returns to the Citadel. Not only for the above reasons to conduct mission debriefs face-to-face (which makes sense for the more discrete sidequests), but also to refuel (IF it's an issue and if it's not an issue, then... there's no problem)

No, it's pointing out the flaws in their design / writing. They put a lot of effort into making their own IP, but apparently no one considers that it does indeed cost millions of dollars to keep a ship going and everytime you burn fuel to go somewhere you don't really need to go to that's money thrown directly in the toilet. If they have refuelling in ME2 that's a good thing, but it can't be used to justify the sillyness of meeting so many useless people face to to face in the original.

Who are you talking about? There's Kohuku, and Asari diplomat. Who else makes these face-to-face meetings you complain about so oderous?

I remind you these are sidequests, and they're no necessary to complete. The vast majority of sidequests that I remember doing are completed with a mission debrief to ADM Hackett - so effectively they're a non-issue.

[Vympel]

Why isn't communications limits not an excuse just because it's their own IP?

Because it's hiding stupid design decisions behind writing that they didn't need to adopt in the first place.

I favour Stark's idea instead. Benezia was a bit too busy trying to kill you to spare the time to try and kill the Rachni Queen, for no purpose. Having the Queen instead attempt to escape is a more elegant fix.

Yeah, it is.

Still, you drop down on the planet and find the team and they're all dead - and the result was "ITS A TRAP!!!" So again, to reiterate, showing discretion is the better part of valour and while you do not know that its Cerberus its clear whoever is responsible has non-trivial resources at their disposal to get the drop on a SpecOps team.

That's not sufficient basis to assume the communications channels on your ultra-modern warship which has real-time comms with the Citadel Council is compromised. Frankly, if it's good enough for the Council, it should be good enough for the military. Besides, there's no hint of some conspiracy or some such that you need to keep on the down-low. This is just making up excuses for it after the fact.

It won't? She's the one giving the sidequest so if she wants the report in person then its on her terms. Just because she's a diplomat doesn't mean she has a secure channel.

She doesn't say she wants a report in person. That's the problem. The game just assumes it, because the design of the game is stuck in fetch-quest paradigm even though you're not actually bringing her anything.

In war, expedience might matter more - but in peacetime? And she's a civilian.

The outcome of information compromise in war are far more egregious than those in peace time.

Who are you talking about? There's Kohuku, and Asari diplomat. Who else makes these face-to-face meetings you complain about so oderous?

I think you mean onerous

My memory's not so flash, but that guy who's brother went missing also springs to mind (the MSV Majestic, IIRC).

I remind you these are sidequests, and they're no necessary to complete. The vast majority of sidequests that I remember doing are completed with a mission debrief to ADM Hackett - so effectively they're a non-issue.

So what if they're sidequests? People like completing side quests, the point is they don't have to be so damn tedious.

And also I'm not just talking about having to return to the Citadel, but even when you're doing all those quests on the Citadel itself where a phone would've saved so much time in pointless walking back and forth.

[Stofsk]

Why isn't communications limits not an excuse just because it's their own IP?

Because it's hiding stupid design decisions behind writing that they didn't need to adopt in the first place.

Huh? How is it a stupid design decision to have limits to FTL comms? If it was so easy to contact the Council then you'd expect to do so more often. Spectres are given wide latitude, perhaps because of that limitation, not in spite of.

Still, you drop down on the planet and find the team and they're all dead - and the result was "ITS A TRAP!!!" So again, to reiterate, showing discretion is the better part of valour and while you do not know that its Cerberus its clear whoever is responsible has non-trivial resources at their disposal to get the drop on a SpecOps team.

That's not sufficient basis to assume the communications channels on your ultra-modern warship which has real-time comms with the Citadel Council is compromised. Frankly, if it's good enough for the Council, it should be good enough for the military. Besides, there's no hint of some conspiracy or some such that you need to keep on the down-low. This is just making up excuses for it after the fact.

There isn't? You later find out that Kohuku and the Shadow Broker were in cahoots, which might imply that Kohuku's team wasn't exactly on a sanctioned mission. Communications might be ultra-secure, but Kohuku might not want to use the Citadel/Military communications network.

So what if its making up excuses? I'm not the one with the problem with it. It seems to me that if you want to convince yourself that its a poor design go right ahead. If someone gave me a task to do I'd want to report to them directly, so it's not a huge problem for me.

It won't? She's the one giving the sidequest so if she wants the report in person then its on her terms. Just because she's a diplomat doesn't mean she has a secure channel.

She doesn't say she wants a report in person. That's the problem. The game just assumes it, because the design of the game is stuck in fetch-quest paradigm even though you're not actually bringing her anything.

You're told to rescue her sister, I think she'd want to be reunited with her. The game implies she'll want a face-to-face completion of the mission. When you realise you're punked, why exactly wouldn't Shepherd want to go confront her in person? I know I would.

Incidentally, this also applies to the guy who wanted Shepherd to look for his brother. It's implied he'll be reunited with his brother if he's still alive, and if he's not to be told that personally. "LOL this is Shepherd on the phone, sorry mate your brother's dead. Life's tough, ciao baby *hang up*"

In war, expedience might matter more - but in peacetime? And she's a civilian.

The outcome of information compromise in war are far more egregious than those in peace time.

Outcome of information compromise is egregious whenever it occurs, but in peacetime prudence often outweighs expedience (or ought to anyway) and prudence would counter information compromise. Plus, you ignored the fact I was referring to the Asari diplomat.

Who are you talking about? There's Kohuku, and Asari diplomat. Who else makes these face-to-face meetings you complain about so oderous?

I think you mean onerous

My memory's not so flash, but that guy who's brother went missing also springs to mind (the MSV Majestic, IIRC).

So three guys? That's about all I can remember too. Most of the citadel missions you can complete when you first get there. There are a couple of other sidequests that come up from subsequent revisits, but most are just there to be completed - it's not like you get much of a reward in the sidequests in this game.

So what if they're sidequests? People like completing side quests, the point is they don't have to be so damn tedious.

*shrug* You could put in a system where you can jump to where you want to go, and they kinda have that with the transit system. That eliminates the tedious aspect for me.

And also I'm not just talking about having to return to the Citadel, but even when you're doing all those quests on the Citadel itself where a phone would've saved so much time in pointless walking back and forth.

I'm not a big fan of the go-fetch missions either, but frankly I'm not convinced of your argument. Generally speaking most people prefer to talk to someone face-to-face than through phoning them up and telling them you've done what they've asked you to do.

[Vympel]

Huh? How is it a stupid design decision to have limits to FTL comms? If it was so easy to contact the Council then you'd expect to do so more often. Spectres are given wide latitude, perhaps because of that limitation, not in spite of.

No, it's a stupid design decision to hide archaic fetch quest paradigms with such a kludge. I fail to see where these limits are in the game anyway. They're not hinted at anywhere. Joker has no trouble contacting the Council after every mission, does he?

There isn't? You later find out that Kohuku and the Shadow Broker were in cahoots, which might imply that Kohuku's team wasn't exactly on a sanctioned mission. Communications might be ultra-secure, but Kohuku might not want to use the Citadel/Military communications network.

None of this is hinted in the game. You're making excuses for it.

So what if its making up excuses? I'm not the one with the problem with it. It seems to me that if you want to convince yourself that its a poor design go right ahead. If someone gave me a task to do I'd want to report to them directly, so it's not a huge problem for me.

It is poor design. You're trying to convince yourself that its not by coming up with contrivances evidenced nowhere in the game to explain it away. It's absurd to expect to report directly to everyone who gives you a task when you're a Specture on an warship gallavanting around the galaxy.

You're told to rescue her sister, I think she'd want to be reunited with her. The game implies she'll want a face-to-face completion of the mission. When you realise you're punked, why exactly wouldn't Shepherd want to go confront her in person? I know I would.

Because it's a huge waste of time (and money). You can tell her just as easy with the ship's comms.

Incidentally, this also applies to the guy who wanted Shepherd to look for his brother. It's implied he'll be reunited with his brother if he's still alive, and if he's not to be told that personally. "LOL this is Shepherd on the phone, sorry mate your brother's dead. Life's tough, ciao baby *hang up*"

What, so a holographic Shepard is rude compared to a real Shepard? Come off it.

Outcome of information compromise is egregious whenever it occurs, but in peacetime prudence often outweighs expedience (or ought to anyway) and prudence would counter information compromise. Plus, you ignored the fact I was referring to the Asari diplomat.

I don't see how that changes the point.

So three guys? That's about all I can remember too. Most of the citadel missions you can complete when you first get there. There are a couple of other sidequests that come up from subsequent revisits, but most are just there to be completed - it's not like you get much of a reward in the sidequests in this game.

So? They're still tedious.

*shrug* You could put in a system where you can jump to where you want to go, and they kinda have that with the transit system. That eliminates the tedious aspect for me.

Whilst carefully sidestepping the existence of the device called the phone in the future. It's just a stupid oversight.

I'm not a big fan of the go-fetch missions either, but frankly I'm not convinced of your argument. Generally speaking most people prefer to talk to someone face-to-face than through phoning them up and telling them you've done what they've asked you to do.

If I wasted all my time meeting clients in person telling them I had done what I wanted them to do instead of just ringing them and sending a subsequent letter I'd never get any actual work done. In general you don't meet with people everytime you do something when you can just as easily inform them of same with a phone. This is doubly so when you're on a mission that's supposed to be time critical, and your only possible excuse to the Systems Alliance (or whoever) when they look at your operating costs is "well there was this guy's brother who was dead, and I didn't want to be rude, so I came all the way back to the Citadel to tell him something".

They'd think you were out of your tree.

Heck, the most appropriate thing to do would be to call up someone in the Systems Alliance, tell them what happened, and then have *them* go and tell the brother in person, if that's so critical.

[Stofsk]

Huh? How is it a stupid design decision to have limits to FTL comms? If it was so easy to contact the Council then you'd expect to do so more often. Spectres are given wide latitude, perhaps because of that limitation, not in spite of.

No, it's a stupid design decision to hide archaic fetch quest paradigms with such a kludge. I fail to see where these limits are in the game anyway. They're not hinted at anywhere. Joker has no trouble contacting the Council after every mission, does he?

Yeah, when you're airborne and in range of a Mass Relay comm buoy. Hence the limits.

When you're on planet and when those planets are a long way from support and the rest of civilisation, communications aren't depitcted as an easy thing to establish. Hence the limits.

There isn't? You later find out that Kohuku and the Shadow Broker were in cahoots, which might imply that Kohuku's team wasn't exactly on a sanctioned mission. Communications might be ultra-secure, but Kohuku might not want to use the Citadel/Military communications network.

None of this is hinted in the game. You're making excuses for it.

So? It's a rationalisation for something which isn't a problem for me.

And the Shadow Broker connection to Kohuku is in the game, it's not hard to infer Kohuku doing things unsanctioned when he ends up doing that anyway.

So what if its making up excuses? I'm not the one with the problem with it. It seems to me that if you want to convince yourself that its a poor design go right ahead. If someone gave me a task to do I'd want to report to them directly, so it's not a huge problem for me.

It is poor design. You're trying to convince yourself that its not by coming up with contrivances evidenced nowhere in the game to explain it away. It's absurd to expect to report directly to everyone who gives you a task when you're a Specture on an warship gallavanting around the galaxy.

Most of the go-fetch missions take place on the Citadel and can be completed before you become a Spectre, nullifying that aspect of it. Since I take that route in gameplay, it's never been a problem. A lot of the time you're also exploring the Citadel and/or heading somewhere in it so a lot of the time you can complete these fetch missions without ONEROUS tedium dragging you down.

Because it's a huge waste of time (and money). You can tell her just as easy with the ship's comms.

What's this waste of time bollocks? You get set up by someone and your response is 'eh, i'll shoot off a really angry email/phone call'. Jesus.

You get the Armali arms licence if you intimidate/charm her (although the situation really calls for intimidation) so it's not a waste. Besides, why not confront her face to face about it? That's what I would do.

Again with the money issue. Prove that it's a frivolous expense to fly back and forth throughout the galaxy when that is what you're tasked to do anyway, and do so by referencing a source rather than nebulous "Lol it costs an unspecified amount of money to operate a vessel like the Normandy". For all you know, the Normandy might need to refuel and resupply anyway, or the Tantalus drive core the Normandy possesses gives it greater endurance and more efficient use of fuel as compared to standard reaction thrusters on typical Alliance ships, because it was designed for that sort of mission profile. Seeing as we never hear how you *need* to refuel, I'd lean toward the latter explanation.

What, so a holographic Shepard is rude compared to a real Shepard? Come off it.

Yep. How is it not? Are you serious? Also you find his body on the planet and that has to be returned to his next of kin. (even though it's not said in the game, I doubt you'd go there and find the body and not return it)

I don't see how that changes the point.

Well it's fucking obvious. She wants to keep it quiet, and you go there in person to extort or threaten her. Simple.

So? They're still tedious.

To you, maybe.

*shrug* You could put in a system where you can jump to where you want to go, and they kinda have that with the transit system. That eliminates the tedious aspect for me.

Whilst carefully sidestepping the existence of the device called the phone in the future. It's just a stupid oversight.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There are three guys you need to talk to face to face - one calls for intimidation, one calls for sensitivity, and the other calls for discretion. FOR EVERY OTHER PLANET BASED SIDEQUEST IN THE GAME, you have a mission debrief with ADM Hackett immediately after you get picked up by the Normandy.

If I wasted all my time meeting clients in person telling them I had done what I wanted them to do instead of just ringing them and sending a subsequent letter I'd never get any actual work done. In general you don't meet with people everytime you do something when you can just as easily inform them of same with a phone.

Lol you're using your litigation lawyer experience as a basis for that? So tell me, do you settle cases by the phone or do you do it face to face with all parties present? Maria came down last week to settle a case here, and when there were major developments made in my case my lawyer saw me personally. If you're going to do the 'lol my experiences trump yours' thing, we're not gonna get anywhere. I personally don't talk to anyone on the phone if I can avoid it, and when I do 99.9% of the time its to arrange for a face-to-face appointment.

This is doubly so when you're on a mission that's supposed to be time critical, and your only possible excuse to the Systems Alliance (or whoever) when they look at your operating costs is "well there was this guy's brother, and I didn't want to be rude."

Sidequests! If you don't want to do it, don't do it! They're not necessary to complete the plot! (to repeat myself)

Also: and yeh, in real life, people do go that extra mile in cases like that guy's brother being killed and you taking that news to him personally. Since you have to return the body anyway, there is no doubt procedure in place to deal with just this situation (as there are in real life) and it would cost twice as much to have a follow up ship return to the planet if you didn't do it personally. Get a grip.

EDIT: Vympel, wanna split this? I'm concerned our discussion is getting off-topic.

[Vympel]

Yeah, when you're airborne and in range of a Mass Relay comm buoy. Hence the limits.

No, you're wrong. On Noveria and Feros you talk to the Council before you leave the planet.

So? It's a rationalisation for something which isn't a problem for me.

The fact that you don't have a problem with it because you can rationalise it away with a contrivance you made up doesn't mean it's not an example of bad design. The very fact that you have to invent a contrivance for it proves that yes, it is bad.

And the Shadow Broker connection to Kohuku is in the game, it's not hard to infer Kohuku doing things unsanctioned when he ends up doing that anyway.

None of this was known at the time you find his men. This is just excuse making.

Most of the go-fetch missions take place on the Citadel and can be completed before you become a Spectre, nullifying that aspect of it. Since I take that route in gameplay, it's never been a problem. A lot of the time you're also exploring the Citadel and/or heading somewhere in it so a lot of the time you can complete these fetch missions without ONEROUS tedium dragging you down.

The fact that you have to come up with ways to play around their tedium doesn't mean it's not tedious on its face.

What's this waste of time bollocks? You get set up by someone and your response is 'eh, i'll shoot off a really angry email/phone call'. Jesus.

Yeah, it was sooo important to go back to the Citadel to confront her about this face to face, what with the all of two seconds of dialog before a mutually acceptable deal was reached. A hologram version of yourself, she'd just laught that off even though you could tell her the exact same thing and are holding the exact same information over her head. Come on.

You get the Armali arms licence if you intimidate/charm her (although the situation really calls for intimidation) so it's not a waste. Besides, why not confront her face to face about it? That's what I would do.

Because it's a gigantic waste of time to go bacccck to the Citadel, sit through their bullshit landing sequence, sit in the elevator from the dock, fast travel to the embassy, go to the bar, talk to her then, then do all that shit in reverse! And what, she can't give you the licence electronically?

Again with the money issue. Prove that it's a frivolous expense to fly back and forth throughout the galaxy when that is what you're tasked to do anyway,

It's a frivolous expense when if the game was more intelligently written, you could just use the damn comms system!.

and do so by referencing a source rather than nebulous "Lol it costs an unspecified amount of money to operate a vessel like the Normandy". For all you know, the Normandy might need to refuel and resupply anyway, or the Tantalus drive core the Normandy possesses gives it greater endurance and more efficient use of fuel as compared to standard reaction thrusters on typical Alliance ships, because it was designed for that sort of mission profile. Seeing as we never hear how you *need* to refuel, I'd lean toward the latter explanation.

So what, fuel doesn't cost money as long as your ship has great endurance?

Yep. How is it not? Are you serious? Also you find his body on the planet and that has to be returned to his next of kin. (even though it's not said in the game, I doubt you'd go there and find the body and not return it)

Great, so even more inventions to justify a silly bit of game design. Explain to me how an glowing orange Shepherd is somehow intolerably rude compared to an in the flesh Shepard.

Well it's fucking obvious. She wants to keep it quiet, and you go there in person to extort or threaten her. Simple.

Right, so you can't extort someone without seeing them in person? What, she won't be sufficiently intimidated by intergalactic Spectre badass who just killed her sister unless he's standing there?

To you, maybe.

You don't find it tedious making up umpteen never-stated-in-the-game excuses for their idiotic lack of phones?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There are three guys you need to talk to face to face - one calls for intimidation, one calls for sensitivity, and the other calls for discretion. FOR EVERY OTHER PLANET BASED SIDEQUEST IN THE GAME, you have a mission debrief with ADM Hackett immediately after you get picked up by the Normandy.

All of which are nullified by being able to appear in hologram. Like you do to your bosses, the Council.

Lol you're using your litigation lawyer experience as a basis for that? So tell me, do you settle cases by the phone or do you do it face to face with all parties present? Maria came down last week to settle a case here, and when there were major developments made in my case my lawyer saw me personally. If you're going to do the 'lol my experiences trump yours' thing, we're not gonna get anywhere. I personally don't talk to anyone on the phone if I can avoid it, and when I do 99.9% of the time its to arrange for a face-to-face appointment.

Settlements in litigation aren't the same thing as telling someone a task is done. Settlements require negotiation, and I can guarantee you if Maria's client wasn't actually there she wouldn't have wasted time going to see him to tell him it had actually been settled, she would've told him on the phone and then confirmed it by mail. And it wasn't a settlement, it was a mediation, with a paid mediator.

Sidequests! If you don't want to do it, don't do it! They're not necessary to complete the plot! (to repeat myself)

Great, so basically you're are saying "if you don't like these shitty quests, don't do them". Yes, they are still shitty.

Also: and yeh, in real life, people do go that extra mile in cases like that guy's brother being killed and you taking that news to him personally. Since you have to return the body anyway, there is no doubt procedure in place to deal with just this situation (as there are in real life) and it would cost twice as much to have a follow up ship return to the planet if you didn't do it personally. Get a grip.

As I noted, it would make the most sense to just have someone on the Citadel tell him, if a hologram is some sort of huge affront. It doesn't have to be the guy who found the body.

EDIT: Vympel, wanna split this? I'm concerned our discussion is getting off-topic.

I shall. Just a sec, got something on this end.

[Vympel]

Thread split.

EDIT: further re settlements, another reason we don't do them over the phone is because Heads of Agreement and Deeds of Release and discontinuances and blah blah blah need to be signed by all parties. None of this applies to just talking to people informally.

[Vympel]

I think I need to clarify why this shitty design in ME is shitty design.

It does not matter if you can make up reasons in your own head as to why the devs are acting like you live in medieval times when you're doing your quests - reasons that are attested nowhere in the actual game - the fact remains that the necessity of communciating face to face with your many contacts, as opposed to using communications, is never even mooted. It's not even a consideration for the developers, because they're unimaginative.

Seriously, what kind of plausible future can anyone imagine wherein the entire time you're talking to someone, not one damn person

- asks you for your phone number / advanced equivalent;
- gives you theirs.

It beggars belief. Instead, we're treated to bullshit where we've got to run around the Citadel like we're in medieval Baldur's Gate, talking to everyone in person with no option to just make a call (in addition to the nonsense where every idiot has to be told a task is done in person for reasons that are never explained, except for the side quests the military gives you). For example:-

"Go find Garrus. He can help."

"Where do I find him?"

Realism:

"Call C-SEC. They'll give you his cell."

Idiotic RPG

"There's this drunk guy called Harkin who doesn't matter, go ask him where he is, he'll know."

I mean come on. This sort of bullshit is just infuriating.

[Stark]

Indeed, people are totally fine giving you quests over the phone; enter system x, OMG CALL FROM COMMANDER DUMBASS he says there's a ship lost here with terrorists in it.

Being a spectre you'd think you wouldn't even NEED someone's phonenumber; you're the goddamn galactic CIA. Why do you need to return to people to 'turn the quest in' when all they do is say 'thanks, I heard you did that, have some xp'? Why not just get the quest closed as soon as you complete it? You have a whole room on the ship (20% the floorspace gone at a stroke lol) for videoconferencing, and you onyl use it to talk to idiots.

As you said, aboard citadel it's totally asinine. Fuck his cell; hit up his armour, the GPS will tell you exactly where he is and navigate you there. It's not the 80s, you know.

[Vympel]

That's a good idea as well, it just amazes me that they can't even conceive of (by comparison primitive) devices that are practically attached to people nowadays. Anachronistic futuristic movies like Total Recall have an excuse - mobile phones hadn't entered into the popular mindset back then. What's Bioware's excuse? Nothing, apart from mindless RPG convention.