American Graduates "Outsource" Themselves to China.

[Big Orange]

With American having an economy in the gutter and a vanishing manufacturing base, many upstart graduates have decided to the follow the jobs outsourced to China:

American Graduates Finding Jobs in China
By HANNAH SELIGSON
Published: August 10, 2009

BEIJING — Shanghai and Beijing are becoming new lands of opportunity for recent American college graduates who face unemployment nearing double digits at home.

Even those with limited or no knowledge of Chinese are heeding the call. They are lured by China’s surging economy, the lower cost of living and a chance to bypass some of the dues-paying that is common to first jobs in the United States.

“I’ve seen a surge of young people coming to work in China over the last few years,” said Jack Perkowski, founder of Asimco Technologies, one of the largest automotive parts companies in China.

“When I came over to China in 1994, that was the first wave of Americans coming to China,” he said. “These young people are part of this big second wave.”

One of those in the latest wave is Joshua Arjuna Stephens, who graduated from Wesleyan University in 2007 with a bachelor’s degree in American studies. Two years ago, he decided to take a temporary summer position in Shanghai with China Prep, an educational travel company.

“I didn’t know anything about China,” said Mr. Stephens, who worked on market research and program development. “People thought I was nuts to go not speaking the language, but I wanted to do something off the beaten track.”

Two years later, after stints in the nonprofit sector and at a large public relations firm in Beijing, he is highly proficient in Mandarin and works as a manager for XPD Media, a social media company based in Beijing that makes online games.

Jonathan Woetzel, a partner with McKinsey & Company in Shanghai who has lived in China since the mid-1980s, says that compared with just a few years ago, he was seeing more young Americans arriving in China to be part of an entrepreneurial boom. “There’s a lot of experimentation going on in China right now, particularly in the energy sphere, and when people are young they are willing to come and try something new,” he said.

And the Chinese economy is more hospitable for both entrepreneurs and job seekers, with a gross domestic product that rose 7.9 percent in the most recent quarter compared with the period a year earlier. Unemployment in urban areas is 4.3 percent, according to government data.

Grace Hsieh, president of the Yale Club in Beijing and a 2007 graduate, says she has seen a rise in the number of Yale graduates who have come to work in Beijing since she arrived in China two years ago. She is working as an account executive in Beijing for Hill & Knowlton, the public relations company.

Sarabeth Berman, a 2006 graduate of Barnard College with a major in urban studies, initially arrived in Beijing at the age of 23 to take a job that would have been difficult for a person her age to land in the United States: program director at BeijingDance/LDTX, the first modern dance company in China to be founded independently of the government.

Ms. Berman said she was hired for her familiarity with Western modern dance rather than a knowledge of China. “Despite my lack of language skills and the fact that I had no experience working in China, I was given the opportunity to manage the touring, international projects, and produce and program our annual Beijing Dance Festival.”

After two years of living and working in China, Ms. Berman is proficient in Mandarin. She travels throughout China, Europe and the United States with the dance company.

Willy Tsao, the artistic director of BeijingDance/LDTX, said he had hired Ms. Berman because of her ability to make connections beyond China. “I needed someone who was capable of communicating with the Western world.”

Another dynamic in the hiring process, Mr. Tsao says, is that Westerners can often bring skills that are harder to find among the Chinese.

“Sarabeth is always taking initiative and thinking what we can do,” he said, “while I think the more standard Chinese approach is to take orders.” He says the difference is rooted in the educational system. “In Chinese schools students are encouraged to be quiet and less outspoken; it fosters a culture of listening more than initiating.”

Mr. Perkowski, who spent almost 20 years on Wall Street before heading to China, says many Chinese companies are looking to hire native English speakers to help them navigate the American market.

“I’m working with a company right now that wants me to help them find young American professionals who can be their liaisons to the U.S.,” he said. “They want people who understand the social and cultural nuances of the West.”

Mr. Perkowski’s latest venture, JFP Holdings, a merchant bank based in Beijing, has not posted any job openings, but has received more than 60 résumés; a third are from young people in the United States who want to come work in China, he said.

Mick Zomnir, 20, a soon-to-be junior at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, is working as a summer intern for JFP. “As things have gotten more difficult in the U.S., I started to think about opportunities elsewhere,” he said. He does not speak Chinese but says he will begin studying Mandarin when he returns to M.I.T. in the fall.

A big draw of working in China, many young people say, is that they feel it allows them to skip a rung or two on the career ladder.

Ms. Berman said: “There is no doubt that China is an awesome place to jump-start your career. Back in the U.S., I would be intern No. 3 at some company or selling tickets at Lincoln Center.”

For others, like Jason Misium, 23, China has solved the cash flow problem of starting a business. After graduating with a degree in biology from Harvard in 2008, Mr. Misium came to China to study the language. Then, with a friend, Matthew Young, he started Sophos Academic Group, an academic consulting firm that works with Chinese students who want to study in the United States.

“It’s China’s fault that I’m still here,” he said. “It’s just so cheap to start a business.” It cost him the equivalent of $12,000, which he had in savings, he said.

Among many young Americans, the China exit strategy is a common topic of conversation. Mr. Stephens, Ms. Berman and Mr. Misium all said they were planning to return to the United States eventually.

Mr. Woetzel of McKinsey said work experience in China was not an automatic ticket to a great job back home. He said it was not a marker in the same way an Ivy League education: “The mere fact of just showing up and working in China and speaking Chinese is not enough.”

That said, Mr. Woetzel added, someone who has been able to make a mark in China is a valuable hire.

“At McKinsey, we are looking for people who have demonstrated leadership,” he said, “and working in a context like China builds character, requires you to be a lot more entrepreneurial and forces you to innovate.”

The New York Times

[Prannon]

I'd consider myself one of this particular generation of Americans. I didn't go to China though, I went to Korea, and I did that mostly because I wanted to get out of the US and because my Bachelor's degree doesn't really give me any practical skills I could market myself for (my fault for going with a Bachelor of Political Science Degree). But yeah, it was ridiculously easy for me to outsource myself. I just registered on a headhunter site, got a call within 15 minutes, and in just a couple of months I was gone and out of there with no language requirements at all.

Plus: housing is paid for and prearranged, bills are cheap, food is cheap, and you make enough money to save about $1000 every month and maintain a very good standard of living. What more could a recent grad ask for?

It's a sign of the times when I say that I'm reluctant to go back to the US anytime soon due to the economic/political situation. I do want to return home someday, but I keep having that nagging feeling that the US is going the way of the dodo these days.

[Lusankya]

Not being American, I'm obviously not one of that generation of Americans, but "outsourcing" myself to China is one of the reasons I plan to get a second (more useful) degree at a university in China.

Of course, it's probably a different prospect for Australians: we see China more as a growing trading partner than as a place to escape our economic woes, and I personally have the goal of permanent migration rather than just furthering my career, which is a different matter all together.

It's still true, though, that being Western is a huge advantage in getting a job over here. Ultimately, skills that pretty much every American has - English fluency and western/American cultural insight - are in short supply.

[ray245]

It's actually quite easy for any white from a western nation to get a high paying job in East Asia these days. It's mostly attributed to the fact that many companies has the view that Whites from a western nation tends to be more innovative and more competitive than a person of Asian descent.

[Lusankya]

Well, Western culture rewards aggressiveness and self-promotion in plenty of ways that Asian culture doesn't, so it wouldn't surprise me if that certainly appears to be the case. Whether or not that makes people better employees is another matter, of course.

[Broomstick]

Historically, countries having economic or political troubles see an outflow of population. Although many hope to return one day many in fact do not, or do not until retirement age. The only thing different is that this is likely the first time the US has experienced the phenomena.

I've long known that no country stays on top forever... and it is likely the US's prominence is fading. In another generation we'll look back on the 20th Century as Britain looks back on its Empire days.

[Bellator]

How does one go about finding a job in Asia?

[une]

How does one go about finding a job in Asia?

Depends on the job you want and where you want to work.

If you want to do English teaching it's often as simple as just moving to the country of your choice and checking out the want ads. Other jobs will require a bit more effort.

I've been in Asia for about 3 years now and I definitely enjoy it here. I'm black so I'm not treated as well as the white expats here, but I enjoy my life here and don't have any plans to return to the US.

[Samuel]

The only thing different is that this is likely the first time the US has experienced the phenomena.

Actually the same thing occured duing the Great Depression.

[Broomstick]

The only thing different is that this is likely the first time the US has experienced the phenomena.

Actually the same thing occured duing the Great Depression.

:::furiously scribbles note for future reference:::

Thanks for the info!

[mr friendly guy]

Plus: housing is paid for and prearranged, bills are cheap, food is cheap, and you make enough money to save about $1000 every month and maintain a very good standard of living. What more could a recent grad ask for?
(

Just checking, thats $1000 USD right? Not 1000 Korean won which IIRC is relatively small to most Western currencies.

Of course, it's probably a different prospect for Australians: we see China more as a growing trading partner than as a place to escape our economic woes, and I personally have the goal of permanent migration rather than just furthering my career, which is a different matter all together.

Our leaders most likely see it as a growing trading partner. According to surveys (don't have the link, but just from reading the papers) a high amount of people are apprehensive about China. Especially with the stupid Oh no, they are buying our shares (well not shit, its called foreign investment, and lets face it, Australians have for a long time relied on the savings of foreigners to fund our projects), and oh no, Chinese forces are cracking down on rioters who have killed people (like who remembers Tibet one year later).

Now for Australians to escape our economic woes, we head to WA. Its not just people from the eastern states, its lots of British and South African migrants as well.

[Lusankya]

Our leaders most likely see it as a growing trading partner. According to surveys (don't have the link, but just from reading the papers) a high amount of people are apprehensive about China. Especially with the stupid Oh no, they are buying our shares (well not shit, its called foreign investment, and lets face it, Australians have for a long time relied on the savings of foreigners to fund our projects), and oh no, Chinese forces are cracking down on rioters who have killed people (like who remembers Tibet one year later).

My family and friends have been trained well: they know not to say any of that shit around me.

Now for Australians to escape our economic woes, we head to WA. Its not just people from the eastern states, its lots of British and South African migrants as well.

Aah. Future bogans. Enjoy.

[mr friendly guy]

Aah. Future bogans. Enjoy.

Can't say I am looking forward to it. Although I find it funny when the CUBs (cashed up bogans) lose money because they lose jobs and find out they didn't save. I guess their schools didn't get them to join a commonwealth bank dollar mite account.

Any way, back on topic, this reminds me of a newspaper report I saw in USA Today while I was holidaying over there just a few days ago. The theme was similar, except it was potential skilled immigrants coming to the US who wanted to stay there returning to their country of origin. Several reasons were given, namely better opportunity in said countries and long waits for approval to citizenship leading to frustration.

So it seems the US is not only experiencing some brain drain from its own graduates, but that its ability to brain drain from other countries is waning as well.

[Prannon]

Plus: housing is paid for and prearranged, bills are cheap, food is cheap, and you make enough money to save about $1000 every month and maintain a very good standard of living. What more could a recent grad ask for?

Just checking, thats $1000 USD right? Not 1000 Korean won which IIRC is relatively small to most Western currencies.

Yeah, roundabouts. I'm usually able to save about 1,000,000 won a month. That's around $1000, give or take depending on the exchange rates.

[Big Orange]

Could engineers and scientists from the US be tempted to move to China, because America's overdeveloped and fossilised IP laws are now increasingly jamming up avenues of research? Patenting certain strands of DNA and chemical molecules, stuff that is universal, comes across to me as impractical and somewhat sinister.

[AMT]

hmmm... anyone know any good sites to get ex-pat work from, or get leads on?

[Prannon]

hmmm... anyone know any good sites to get ex-pat work from, or get leads on?

This if you're interested in English teaching in Korea.

[Pelranius]

The only thing different is that this is likely the first time the US has experienced the phenomena.

Actually the same thing occured duing the Great Depression.

:::furiously scribbles note for future reference:::

Thanks for the info!

I think they went to the Soviet Union. A hundred thousand or thereabouts.

[Stark]

Based on this thread I did some poking around (placement sites, as Prannon mentioned) and holy shit, it's fucking easy as piss to qualify for these things. If there are a lot of places available (ie quick turnaround) anyone with a decent background or education should be able to use this.

[AMT]

Yeah,seems that the english teaching ones are easy to qualify for, but what about other, professional work?

[Stark]

I wasn't just looking at teaching; if you're educated in (say) business or a profession, there seems to be high demand, not always with a 'speak native language' requirement. It's not surprising to me at all that people are taking advantage of this job market.

[AMT]

I wasn't just looking at teaching; if you're educated in (say) business or a profession, there seems to be high demand, not always with a 'speak native language' requirement. It's not surprising to me at all that people are taking advantage of this job market.

Indeed. I'm trying to myself, but my google-fu is weak, hence my asking for info on any places to start looking. I have a decent job, but it's one year away from ending so... always good to look while I have the chance to relocate.

[Prannon]

Based on this thread I did some poking around (placement sites, as Prannon mentioned) and holy shit, it's fucking easy as piss to qualify for these things.

It's interesting that you mention that, because to be honest there are a lot of shady foreigners who come to Korea only to party, fuck, and scare children.

I met one dude who was telling me about how he was constantly complaining that he was being overworked and had gotten his working hours cut down to 18 hours a week, without any dock in pay. I was rather disgusted since I work somewhere between 42 and 47 hours a week, and I don't complain and wouldn't have it any other way.

I've also heard some horror stories. There was this one guy they named "Stinky John," and they had a good reason. Apparently he smelled so bad and was so...eccentric...that he scared every last child in the classes he taught to quit the school. All except for one, and when that one found out that John was being replaced he was cheering in happiness.

And then there's the fact that many of the English institutions here are shady themselves: overworking their employees, having them take illegal second jobs, not providing them with the materials they need to do their jobs, not paying their pensions, and so on and so forth.

It's nice that this market is so easy to get into for guys like me, who just want an honest job and a living. It was especially nice for me since I just graduated back in December and was desperate to get out of Texas, out of the US, and away from everything. But that also means that assholes and douchebags who have no business being around children are over here too, and the businesses themselves aren't under much of an obligation to treat you well since it's fairly easy to find replacements.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Yeah,seems that the english teaching ones are easy to qualify for, but what about other, professional work?

I've done a little digging on this, since I'm looking for a job that isn't a low paid warehouse job that's better than nothing at all. It appears that the teaching jobs, if you stay on more than one year (most people apparently don't, because most of the English teaching jobs you can get without teaching qualifications are apparently terrible jobs in commercial language schools, unless you're lucky enough to get on something like JET), are mostly useful to gain proficiency with the language. Once you speak the native tongue, then Chinese/Japanese/Korean/whatever companies will snap you up as fast as they can, simply because you speak both English and the native language. That's mostly marketing departments I think, though, rather than technical jobs.

Lots of companies need people fluent in English, and if they get a native speaker, they have the advantage of somebody with a Western cultural background, which is also useful. And, of course, speaking two languages is advantageous for other stuff; various people always need translators and so on.

[une]

Yeah,seems that the english teaching ones are easy to qualify for, but what about other, professional work?

I've done a little digging on this, since I'm looking for a job that isn't a low paid warehouse job that's better than nothing at all. It appears that the teaching jobs, if you stay on more than one year (most people apparently don't, because most of the English teaching jobs you can get without teaching qualifications are apparently terrible jobs in commercial language schools, unless you're lucky enough to get on something like JET), are mostly useful to gain proficiency with the language. Once you speak the native tongue, then Chinese/Japanese/Korean/whatever companies will snap you up as fast as they can, simply because you speak both English and the native language. That's mostly marketing departments I think, though, rather than technical jobs.

Lots of companies need people fluent in English, and if they get a native speaker, they have the advantage of somebody with a Western cultural background, which is also useful. And, of course, speaking two languages is advantageous for other stuff; various people always need translators and so on.

That really depends on where you are. English teaching in Japan is really quite bad and has all of the problems that you've mentioned, but in Taiwan, China and maybe Korea it's still a pretty good job.