Man lynched in Kentucky for involvement with Census Bureau.

[Glocksman]

Um, yes, it's possible the Census worker did do something anyone would consider provocative... but I think it's more likely some good ol' boys decided to make an "example" of him in hopes of discouraging further government scrutiny.

Since murdering a federal employee because he's a federal employee carries a potential death sentence, those 'good old boys' might wind up setting another example.

[Alferd Packer]

This will backfire on these assholes. Now they will get more scrutiny than they've ever had before.

The thing about people who choose to live in the extreme backwoods is that they simply do not care about anything other than their little tribe. When outsiders come in, there is a single prescribed reaction, with varying degrees of intensity. When outsiders leave, life resumes as normal. Exposing their way of life as idiotic and backward is immaterial to them, because doing so doesn't affect them. There is no such thing as bad publicity, because they'll never see it. Let the reporters come and scour the area; eventually, they'll leave, and life will return to normal. So will it be with law enforcement: once they have their man(men), they will leave and they can return to huffing gasoline or whatever it is they do to pass the time.

So yes, they'll get more scrutiny for a while. They'll grudgingly bear it, but they won't really care. It certainly won't alter their way of life.

[Aaron]

*snip*

Thanks for the explanation Broomstick, it's mostly culture shock I guess. It's hard for me to believe that this stuff would go on in a first world country. Even our First Nation's reserves aren't this bad.

[Yona]

This will backfire on these assholes. Now they will get more scrutiny than they've ever had before.

The thing about people who choose to live in the extreme backwoods is that they simply do not care about anything other than their little tribe. When outsiders come in, there is a single prescribed reaction, with varying degrees of intensity. When outsiders leave, life resumes as normal. Exposing their way of life as idiotic and backward is immaterial to them, because doing so doesn't affect them. There is no such thing as bad publicity, because they'll never see it. Let the reporters come and scour the area; eventually, they'll leave, and life will return to normal. So will it be with law enforcement: once they have their man(men), they will leave and they can return to huffing gasoline or whatever it is they do to pass the time.

So yes, they'll get more scrutiny for a while. They'll grudgingly bear it, but they won't really care. It certainly won't alter their way of life.

It's not Gasoline, but what they use could probably fuel a motor vehicle.

I'm not sure of the name of the county, but a few years ago I helped a friend build a retirement home on Kentucky Lake. At that time he was telling me of a few of the stranger laws that were still in effect in the area. He told me of one, in the county next to his, that prohibited certain people from being in that county after the sun went down. He said it was still in effect and they got away with it because the county took NO Federal or State money for anything. I don't know if that is true or not, but if it is, it is a perfect example of the attitudes that still pervade parts of this country.

Like I said, ship them all to Texas and then let them secede.

[Duckie]

He might be referring to sundown laws, which are unofficial or formerly official laws saying that black men who stay in the town will be lynched unless they're just passing through and out beyond sundown. I wouldn't disbelieve in the idea that sundown laws still exist, given the nasty undercurrents of racism in American.

[Raj Ahten]

With all the hatred of the feds out there, I'm surprised people don't shoot their fucking postman. Or maybe they just don't realize that person is a "fed?"

In this specific case its not like this census worker was a real "outsider" from what I can gather. In fact culturally he probably had a lot in common with whomever killed him. The sort of xenophobia recounted here seems bizarre to me as all the "mountain men" I've met have always had a real sense of hospitality.

Then again most of the ones I've met were old coal miners and not the real shitkickers making hooch or whatever. I also happen to be white, which probably helps, so your millage may vary.

If you want a true xenophobe experience though, go to a gun store in a rural county. I've never seen racist statements bandied around as freely. There was rampant paranoia about Obama and complaining about blacks from cities in North Carolina who "weren't respectful" like the locals.

[Glocksman]

*snip*

Thanks for the explanation Broomstick, it's mostly culture shock I guess. It's hard for me to believe that this stuff would go on in a first world country. Even our First Nation's reserves aren't this bad.

Suspicion of 'outsiders' is common in the USA, even in the large cities.
That said, the suspicion usually doesn't rise to the level of murder.

On one level I almost hope the murderers had a financial and/or criminal motive.
That I can understand even though I disagree.

A political motive OTOH, demonstrates contempt for both the laws of the nation and the ideal of 'one nation, indivisible'.

I can understand and perhaps even forgive criminal motivations based on the circumstances, but I can never forgive treason.

[Glocksman]

If you want a true xenophobe experience though, go to a gun store in a rural county. I've never seen racist statements bandied around as freely. There was rampant paranoia about Obama and complaining about blacks from cities in North Carolina who "weren't respectful" like the locals.

It predates Obama.

Back in 1994, I went to a local gunshow and bought both a .45 S&W 4506 and a Glock 19 9mm.
I also bought copies of The Turner Diaries and Serpent's Walk* from a different merchant.

As much as I hate to own up to it, there are a lot of links between the more paranoid gun crowd and the rabid racist right than most of us 'gun people' like to admit.


*I was curious to see just what the fuss was about, and take my word for it, the Turner Diaries is both badly written and offensive.
Serpent's Walk isn't badly written (there's a rumor that a well known military SF author wrote it under a pseudonym) but is equally offensive.

[Broomstick]

In this specific case its not like this census worker was a real "outsider" from what I can gather. In fact culturally he probably had a lot in common with whomever killed him.

The Census deliberately hires locals to do fieldwork in an area precisely for that reason. Locals are also more likely to know local hazards.

The sort of xenophobia recounted here seems bizarre to me as all the "mountain men" I've met have always had a real sense of hospitality.

Unless you're going back into the holler yourself you're not likely to meet the Xenophobes as they are the ones who don't come down the mountain, but they are there.

I also happen to be white, which probably helps, so your millage may vary.

A little, but not much. On more than one occasion one of the mountain people has looked at me, decreed "you're not from around here, are you?" then asked "what country are you from?". It goes beyond being white - there's a distinctive look to many of them and if you don't have that look then you're a foreigner no matter how white you are.

On one of those occasions one of them then looked at my husband and said "You look like a [particular surname] from XYZ county." The woman was right - my husband was indeed of that surname and born in that county.

[Yona]

On more than one occasion one of the mountain people has looked at me, decreed "you're not from around here, are you?" then asked "what country are you from?". It goes beyond being white - there's a distinctive look to many of them and if you don't have that look then you're a foreigner......

I've run onto that many times, and not just in the South. It's not only "looks", the surnames are particular to small places also. When I retired from a major corporation, we moved to a different state and a small town area, mostly farming communities and recreation areas. It's a great area, and we had no problems, but names and who you are related to are a big part of life here. Whole social calenders and businesses are built on these relationships. It took a few years to get "in" with people, and it involved going back to work in the area to get to know people and give them time to know us.

Sometimes, life in the "big city" is much more accepting early on.

[Broomstick]

Ah, but I did have one of the local surnames thanks to marrying into one of the local families (even if the Other Half hasn't lived there for... well, since he was 2 I think, but he's still "one of them" even if he talks like a Yankee for the most part). I just didn't look like them.

I am as "accepted" as I am down there because of my marriage... but even then, while they are quite hospitable to guests (or can be) it was always clear to me that I would be a visiting outsider and never truly a member of the community down there.

[Samuel]

Serpent's Walk isn't badly written (there's a rumor that a well known military SF author wrote it under a pseudonym) but is equally offensive.

What is it about? I know the Turner Diaries are about the Jews taking everything over, what paranoid dream does Serpent's Walk cover?

[Big Orange]

These isolated, paranoid rural people seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum to city gang members.

[Glocksman]

Serpent's Walk isn't badly written (there's a rumor that a well known military SF author wrote it under a pseudonym) but is equally offensive.

What is it about? I know the Turner Diaries are about the Jews taking everything over, what paranoid dream does Serpent's Walk cover?

Here's a summary of the plot.

In my entirely unexpert opinion, the mystery writer is either David Weber or John Ringo.

[Duckie]

There are ways to determine if there are samples of both of their writing- people did that to discover what parts of the Federalist Papers were written by Hamilton and which were written by Madison. Apparantly even people trying to disguise their writing leave certain marks.

[Ryan Thunder]

"The Earth was too crowded and its balance too delicate to permit much more brandishing of genitalia."

I laughed out loud at that.

How do people take this shit seriously? Is it a parody?

[Broomstick]

These isolated, paranoid rural people seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum to city gang members.

Yes, in many ways, although both use drugs and both can be extremely dangerous.

[Uraniun235]

Serpent's Walk isn't badly written (there's a rumor that a well known military SF author wrote it under a pseudonym) but is equally offensive.

What is it about? I know the Turner Diaries are about the Jews taking everything over, what paranoid dream does Serpent's Walk cover?

Here's a summary of the plot.

In my entirely unexpert opinion, the mystery writer is either David Weber or John Ringo.

John Ringo wouldn't surprise me. I picked up a Bolo book he wrote called The Road to Damascus, which is basically about a bunch of "left-wing" strawmen (with rather nebulous motives) whose ultra-PC policies basically ruin a colony world and basically has a jerk-off session about the 2nd Amendment, or at least the future-space equivalent thereof. It was pretty embarrassing to read at times and I rather wish I hadn't read it.

I haven't read much of Weber's work so I don't know how bad he can get.

[Duckie]

Isn't there also an author who wrote a cringe-worthy story about Waffen-SS dudes being unfrozen in the future and being sci-fi badasses or something?

Maybe it's him, since it has the same SS wankery

[MarshalPurnell]

Serpent's Walk isn't badly written (there's a rumor that a well known military SF author wrote it under a pseudonym) but is equally offensive.

What is it about? I know the Turner Diaries are about the Jews taking everything over, what paranoid dream does Serpent's Walk cover?

Here's a summary of the plot.

In my entirely unexpert opinion, the mystery writer is either David Weber or John Ringo.

It was written in 1991. John Ringo wasn't a "respectable sci-fi author" and so far as I know did not start writing seriously until later in the decade. David Weber is even less likely a candidate for secret neo-Nazi fellow-traveler. It is entirely possible that the rumor was purely a method for the National Alliance to claim credibility it would not have otherwise had.

[Aaron]

Isn't there also an author who wrote a cringe-worthy story about Waffen-SS dudes being unfrozen in the future and being sci-fi badasses or something?

Maybe it's him, since it has the same SS wankery

Are you thinking of Ringo's Watch on the Rhine? It has Waffen-SS "rejuvenated" into young men, put back on active duty and ruin the Posleen's shit.

[Samuel]

It was written by Thomas "I hate Muslim's" Kratman.

Although I think even he would balk from having full fledged Nazis be the protagonist- he isn't antisemetic to my knowledge.

[Aaron]

It was written by Thomas "I hate Muslim's" Kratman.

Although I think even he would balk from having full fledged Nazis be the protagonist- he isn't antisemetic to my knowledge.

Well Amazon says that it was written by both, I wouldn't doubt if Ringo just slapped his name on it though or if was similar to what Clancy does with the OPCenter books.

[Glocksman]

It was written in 1991. John Ringo wasn't a "respectable sci-fi author" and so far as I know did not start writing seriously until later in the decade. David Weber is even less likely a candidate for secret neo-Nazi fellow-traveler. It is entirely possible that the rumor was purely a method for the National Alliance to claim credibility it would not have otherwise had.

Like I said, it is my unexpert opinion.
When I bought the book back in the mid 1990's, I wasn't aware of the rumors about the author.
In fact, I first learned of them circa 2002 or so.

That said, the book is light years ahead of The Turner Diaries as far as style and readability are concerned.
After reading the Ghost books Ringo wrote, I'd say that I personally believe that he's the author assuming the rumors are indeed true.

If they aren't, someone has done a really good job of (unintentionally or intentionally) mimicing his style of writing.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Neither Ringo or Weber were published authors in the early 90's, Glocksman. It's too early for them.