Crazy-ass political chain E-mail from Lou Engle

[Darth Wong]

I got this via E-mail:

AMEN and AMEN.
Father God, I pray in the mighty name of Jesus that America will wake up and realize there is no one but You, that they will fast and pray for our nation and for the conversion of Muslims. You are our all in all.

Father, I come boldly before Your throne of grace and present America, Israel and its people and leaders before you.I unwrap America and Israel from the bonds of wickedness with my prayers and take my shield of faith and quench every fiery dart of the adversary that would come against America, Israel and their people.

I speak to you, Satan, and to the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places and the demonic spirits assigned to America and Israel.. I take authority over you and bind you away from America and Israel I demand that you desist in your maneuvers against America and Israel. You loose them and let them go free in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Satan, you are a spoiled and defeated foe.

I speak of things that are not as though they were, for I choose to look at the unseen- the eternal things of God. I say that Satan shall not get an advantage over America or Israel. I plead the blood of the Lamb over America and Israel for Satan and his cohorts are overcome by the blood and Your Word.

I lift up the Muslim people to you; that they will see the error of their ways and beliefs and be drawn to you by the power of the Holy Spirit. Satan, I speak to you by the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and and I take authority over you and bind you away from Muslims in the name of Jesus. I demand that you desist in your manuvers to hold Muslim people in bondage You loose all of the Muslims, its leaders and its people now and let them go free in the name of Jesus. I plead the blood of the Lamb over them for Satan and his cohorts are overcome by the blood and by your word.

Father, I ask that you put a hedge of protection around America and its people and around Israel and its people. Oh, Father put an angel in front of them to mark their path and an angel behind them to guard their rear from the evil forces of darkness.Father,

I thank you that I tread on serpents and scorpions and over all power of the enemy on behalf of America and Israel and that they and their people are delivered from the present evil world and that Satan and his cohorts are bound according to Matthew 18:18. I loose prayer, fasting, peace and a reival of christian believers in America and Israel.

Father, you said that whatever I ask for in faith, believing not doubting and in the name of your son Jesus that you would give it to me.
I stand firm, fixed, immovable, and steadfast in my faith for greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. I ask these things in faith, not doubting, but believing in Jesus mighty name.

I pray that Jesus will be exalted and that all truth about the Muslim faith be made known around the world, especially in America.

Father, I pray that Americans will wake up to what lies ahead and fast and pray and fill our churches with real revival.

May all glory, honor and praise be yours my Father. Amen.

Question: who the fuck is Lou Engle? And how can these people honestly not see how FUCKING CRAZY they look?

[Duckie]

They really don't know how crazy they sound because they have no outside perspective on themself. And disturbingly, most Americans, exposed to this sort of thing occasionally to regularly, would see nothing wrong with this prayer. Google returns that he's featured in the nightmare that is Jesus Camp, and leads some kind of cult called The Call.

I like the seedy undertone- hell, tone, it's not even hidden- of racism in this prayer incidentally. I'm kind of dumbfounded that "America and Israel" in his prayer has metaphorical brackets around it, like it's a unified entity, or that he thinks the bible has some kind of implicit promise for America like it does for Israel.

Why do preachers in prayers cite verses anyhow? If God wrote the bible, why would he appreciate having verses quoted back? Is he like, "I don't think I'll deliver this fuck, he's annoying", but then Engel says "according to Matthew 18:18" and God is like "Shit, I guess I'm contractually obligated."

[Patrick Degan]

Question: who the fuck is Lou Engle?

Quite obviously a raving nutter.

And how can these people honestly not see how FUCKING CRAZY they look?

By what standard of comparison? They've cut themselves off from "worldly things" to devote themselves totally to their Imaginary Friend. The "judgements of man" are obviously the products of a people corrupted by Satan and therefore are to be ignored by the Righteous™. Having thus disconnected from any and all standards of objective reality, any sort of religious lunacy becomes quite normal as far as this lot are concerned.

[havocfett]

I remember these guys. One of them was going door to door in my neighborhood. I've never slammed a door in someones face before I think.

[Broomstick]

That prayer reminds me of a magical incantation from a badly-written NeoPagan ritural, only crazier.

I can't resist... have to do the following:

Father God, I pray in the mighty name of Jesus that America will wake up and realize there is no one but You

That's right - everyone else is gone! The Rapture happened and you nutjobs got left behind... bwa-ha-HA!

Father, I come boldly before Your throne of grace and present America, Israel and its people and leaders before you.

That's America and the Mid-East Jewish Ghetto where the Pure Ones hope all the Jews will move to so they don't have to live next door to "those people".

I plead the blood of the Lamb over America and Israel for Satan and his cohorts are overcome by the blood and Your Word.

A reference to Passover, when the people of Israel were sheltered from the Angel of Death by the blood of the lamb on their doorways. Except... the Angel of Death came from God, not the Devil.

Oh, Father put an angel in front of them to mark their path and an angel behind them to guard their rear from the evil forces of darkness.Father

And Teh Gay Sex - must guard them from teh gay sex!

I thank you that I tread on serpents and scorpions

Yo, dude - Terminix has a special on getting rid of arthropods this week....

I loose prayer, fasting, peace and a reival of christian believers in America and Israel.

But apparently not a revival of correct spelling....

Father, you said that whatever I ask for in faith, believing not doubting and in the name of your son Jesus that you would give it to me.
I stand firm, fixed, immovable, and steadfast in my faith for greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. I ask these things in faith, not doubting, but believing in Jesus mighty name.

If you're not doubting why do you keep mentioning it?

Question: who the fuck is Lou Engle?

The Call

Apparently they are, among other things, anti Gay and heavily into fasting and prayer. I suggest we encourage the fasting to extremes, which could entirely elminate the problem as well as alleviate food shortages elsewhere.

And how can these people honestly not see how FUCKING CRAZY they look?

No, they really don't see it. By only associating with other, like-minded crazies they live in la-la land and have no other yardstick to judge themselves by.

[Kane Starkiller]

I lift up the Muslim people to you; that they will see the error of their ways and beliefs and be drawn to you by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I wonder how many Christian nutsos are aware that Muslims actually recognize Jesus and worship him as one of the prophets while Jews crucified him.

[VT-16]

I speak to you, Satan, and to the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places and the demonic spirits assigned to America and Israel.. I take authority over you and bind you away from America and Israel I demand that you desist in your maneuvers against America and Israel.

Sounds an awful lot like wizard talk to me.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

I wonder how many Christian nutsos are aware that Muslims actually recognize Jesus and worship him as one of the prophets while Jews crucified him.

Well that's not enough, since Jesus was more than man, he was God, sorta. So they got the cult of personality for the wrong guy, in that view.

[Surlethe]

And how can these people honestly not see how FUCKING CRAZY they look?

It's a cultural difference. Someone raised in the culture is going to think something like this is perfectly normal; outside, it's going to look crazy. I'm sure there are other cultural practices or rituals in the world that would seem fucking crazy to us if a segment of our population started to do them.

Why do preachers in prayers cite verses anyhow? If God wrote the bible, why would he appreciate having verses quoted back? Is he like, "I don't think I'll deliver this fuck, he's annoying", but then Engel says "according to Matthew 18:18" and God is like "Shit, I guess I'm contractually obligated."

A prayer is not just a message to God, it's also a form of indirect communication with the people around you. I realize this because I've been prayed at during meal blessings at my in-laws enough. Another way to see that a vocalized prayer - especially one said by a preacher - is a message is to read it out loud. It seems to me that the words naturally form a "Southern Baptist preacher" cadence.

[Broomstick]

I speak to you, Satan, and to the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places and the demonic spirits assigned to America and Israel.. I take authority over you and bind you away from America and Israel I demand that you desist in your maneuvers against America and Israel.

Sounds an awful lot like wizard talk to me.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Yes, I believe mentioned the resemblance to magical incantations upthread.

I wonder how many Christian nutsos are aware that Muslims actually recognize Jesus and worship him as one of the prophets while Jews crucified him.

Not good enough - to these Christians Jesus wasn't a prophet, he was God, and anything less is blasphemy. These same ignoramuses also think "Allah" is the name of the Muslim God because they're too fucking stupid to know it's just the Arabic word for "God". In other words, they haven't a fucking clue they're worshiping the same God.

[Duckie]

Oddly, one of the many types of christianity exterminated by the catholics were the Arians (From Arius, their leader, not Aryan) (who had as best a shot as anyone but Manicheanism to survive the religicide started by the Catholic Church) whose main doctrine appears to have been 'Jesus was a mortal man seperate from God' and thus basically a prophet. So Christians have a long, long history of disliking people who don't believe the exact same thing about Jesus (Arius was probably the most consequential difference too, there were disputes over whether Jesus was man->God, man->Man+God, man and god together from the start, etc. that boiled into a bunch of excommunications and anathaema.)

Although there's a big uptick of psuedo-Arianism (lack of belief in the godhood of Jesus) among modern liberal christians, from what I've seen.

[Knife]

Oddly enough, my wife got another chainmail from her boss. Not religiously connected and more political, but just as batshit nuts.

Another crazy-ass politicl chain letter

[Aaron]

I find it kind of funny that they pass prayers around be email, doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

[Ryan Thunder]

I find it kind of funny that they pass prayers around be email, doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

Quite.

[B5B7]

What would you say if I said that the Republican Party would get a rational brain?
"C'mon, that will never happen in America!"

[Winston Blake]

I didn't find this crazy, I found it quite awesome in fact.

By the third paragraph I was already hearing it in the voice of James Earl Jones, his long cloak whipping around in a thunderstorm on a mountain top, while he shakes one fist and grips his staff-of-power in the other.

I speak to you, Satan, and to the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places and the demonic spirits assigned to America and Israel.. I take authority over you and bind you away from America and Israel I demand that you desist in your maneuvers against America and Israel. You loose them and let them go free in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Satan, you are a spoiled and defeated foe.

*timpani roll*

[Dark Hellion]

I wonder if he realizes that the Principalities are actually members of the highest choir of angels, alongside Archangels and the basic Angels in terms of grace and power? The Powers are members of the second sphere and considered amongst the most loyal of all angels, with basically no fallen members. I really wish Christians actually knew the bullshit they believed in, it would probably help my irony meter stay better calibrated.

[Tiriol]

I wonder if he realizes that the Principalities are actually members of the highest choir of angels, alongside Archangels and the basic Angels in terms of grace and power? The Powers are members of the second sphere and considered amongst the most loyal of all angels, with basically no fallen members. I really wish Christians actually knew the bullshit they believed in, it would probably help my irony meter stay better calibrated.

The order of angelic choirs are not necessarily important or relevant to several Christian branches or even recognized as anything valid. For a Protestant Christian, for example, they might simply be a Catholic invention with no basis in the Scripture whatsoever.

I really wish people commenting on other people actually knew what they were talking about, it would probably help my irony meter stay better calibrated.

[Dark Hellion]

I guess it would help if the passage hadn't just been a wholesale steal of Ephisians 6:12.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

And shoot me, I was formerly Catholic, I know my Angeology. This doesn't make it any less ironic that if you don't instantly see Ephisians you can see a blasphemous remark against two of the most loyal choirs. You would think someone who goes out of their way to write such a scrawl would be versed enough in theology to realize certain sects of the religion he is preaching to are going to see something else instead of the passage he wants to quote (honestly, you can't tell me you instantly saw that passage and said "hey, thats some Ephisians that is"). And yes, this is irony as he assumes specific audience knowledge which is not necessarily the case (recognizing Ephisians before recognizing choirs). The Catholic and Orthodox traditions outnumber the protestant traditions 4 to 1, and they use the choirs of angels, so if he was writing for a generic Christian audience (which is doubtful but relevant) he should have taken such into account. I also like how you tried to pass off an old Protestant No-true Scotsman as if it was a valid refutation. Amazingly Catholics and Orthodox Christians are considered Christian by most of us heathens, and we don't always bother to learn exactly which specific parts of the mythology that some specific flavor of Christianity thinks is inserted by {man, devil, democrats, Catholics, Jews, the Illuminati, etc.} and instead go with knowledge commonly gained through pop culture like the Lucifer graphic novels or the television show Supernatural. But I guess asking Christians to have a theological grounding in what is (like it or not) a part of the history of their religion is asking way too much. I mean, I would love to be a member of an organization were I could get by without knowing a huge portion of the history of the precursor to their group. Its not like any Americans know we were actually colonies once, or English remember they had an Empire, or Italians know that the Romans lived on their land right?

Of course this is getting side tracked from the greater hilarity of him assuming that America and Israel are the heavenly places.

[Broomstick]

And shoot me, I was formerly Catholic, I know my Angeology. This doesn't make it any less ironic that if you don't instantly see Ephisians you can see a blasphemous remark against two of the most loyal choirs. You would think someone who goes out of their way to write such a scrawl would be versed enough in theology to realize certain sects of the religion he is preaching to are going to see something else instead of the passage he wants to quote

As I'm sure you know there are some Protestant sects who believe they are the One And Only One True Way and don't recognize any other sects as Christian or correct - I have no idea if this guy is a member of such, but it wouldn't surprise me. This passage strikes me as the sort of arrogance that recognizes only his own viewpoint as right.

[Dark Hellion]

Oh, I am sure he is. You have to be a very special kind of blow-hard to write something like this and then E-mail it randomly such that it ends up getting sent to an atheist with a Catholic (former?) wife. Frankly, the kind of people who create these things live in a world of delusion, which only increases the irony and unintentional self-satire produced for they assume a very specific and utterly unrealistic worldview and knowledge set for their audience.

[bobalot]

I can't understand how this type of thinking/world view is considered normal by anybody with a functioning brain, even the religious. From a cursory internet search, it seems this Lou Engle has a considerable following.

[Mayabird]

And shoot me, I was formerly Catholic, I know my Angeology. This doesn't make it any less ironic that if you don't instantly see Ephisians you can see a blasphemous remark against two of the most loyal choirs. You would think someone who goes out of their way to write such a scrawl would be versed enough in theology to realize certain sects of the religion he is preaching to are going to see something else instead of the passage he wants to quote

Dude, as I've pointed out before, most of those evangelical/fundamentalist/whatever preachers/whatevers never study theology. Their knowledge of their own holy books is only slightly greater than that of the idiots who mindlessly hand over their paychecks every week so they can drive a Lexus. Their seminaries and Bible colleges teach salesmanship, not actual religion. It's all about keeping asses in pews. Facts don't matter, just numbers. You make yourself a megachurch with thousands in front of you and a TV audience to boot, you win.

And the thing about salesmanship is, the more you push something, the more you actually believe what you're saying.

[cosmicalstorm]

I ran it through a text editor and replaced some words.

RAMEN and RAMEN.
Spaghetti monster Skywizard, I pray in the mighty name of The Lich King that America will wake up and realize there is no one but You, that they will fast and pray for our nation and for the conversion of Muslims. You are our all in all.

Spaghetti monster, I come boldly before Your throne of grace and present America, Israel and its people and leaders before you.I unwrap America and Israel from the bonds of wickedness with my prayers and take my shield of faith and quench every fiery dart of the adversary that would come against America, Israel and their people.

I speak to you, the Balrog, and to the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places and the demonic spirits assigned to America and Israel.. I take authority over you and bind you away from America and Israel I demand that you desist in your maneuvers against America and Israel. You loose them and let them go free in the name of The Lich King of Nazareth.

the Balrog, you are a spoiled and defeated foe.

I speak of things that are not as though they were, for I choose to look at the unseen- the eternal things of Skywizard. I say that the Balrog shall not get an advantage over America or Israel. I plead the blood of the Lamb over America and Israel for the Balrog and his cohorts are overcome by the blood and Your Word.

I lift up the Muslim people to you; that they will see the error of their ways and beliefs and be drawn to you by the power of the Skywizard. the Balrog, I speak to you by the authority of the Lord The Lich King Christ and and I take authority over you and bind you away from Muslims in the name of The Lich King. I demand that you desist in your manuvers to hold Muslim people in bondage You loose all of the Muslims, its leaders and its people now and let them go free in the name of The Lich King. I plead the blood of the Lamb over them for the Balrog and his cohorts are overcome by the blood and by your word.

Spaghetti monster, I ask that you put a hedge of protection around America and its people and around Israel and its people. Oh, Spaghetti monster put an angel in front of them to mark their path and an angel behind them to guard their rear from the evil forces of darkness.Spaghetti monster,

I thank you that I tread on serpents and scorpions and over all power of the enemy on behalf of America and Israel and that they and their people are delivered from the present evil world and that the Balrog and his cohorts are bound according to Matthew 18:18. I loose prayer, fasting, peace and a reival of christian believers in America and Israel.

Spaghetti monster, you said that whatever I ask for in faith, believing not doubting and in the name of your son The Lich King that you would give it to me.
I stand firm, fixed, immovable, and steadfast in my faith for greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. I ask these things in faith, not doubting, but believing in The Lich King mighty name.

I pray that The Lich King will be exalted and that all truth about the Muslim faith be made known around the world, especially in America.

Spaghetti monster, I pray that Americans will wake up to what lies ahead and fast and pray and fill our churches with real revival.

May all glory, honor and praise be yours my Spaghetti monster. RAMEN.

[Broomstick]

Shouldn't that be "Lich King of Northrend"? Or do you think that would be too obscure?

[Tiriol]

I guess it would help if the passage hadn't just been a wholesale steal of Ephisians 6:12.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

And shoot me, I was formerly Catholic, I know my Angeology. This doesn't make it any less ironic that if you don't instantly see Ephisians you can see a blasphemous remark against two of the most loyal choirs. You would think someone who goes out of their way to write such a scrawl would be versed enough in theology to realize certain sects of the religion he is preaching to are going to see something else instead of the passage he wants to quote (honestly, you can't tell me you instantly saw that passage and said "hey, thats some Ephisians that is"). And yes, this is irony as he assumes specific audience knowledge which is not necessarily the case (recognizing Ephisians before recognizing choirs). The Catholic and Orthodox traditions outnumber the protestant traditions 4 to 1, and they use the choirs of angels, so if he was writing for a generic Christian audience (which is doubtful but relevant) he should have taken such into account. I also like how you tried to pass off an old Protestant No-true Scotsman as if it was a valid refutation. Amazingly Catholics and Orthodox Christians are considered Christian by most of us heathens, and we don't always bother to learn exactly which specific parts of the mythology that some specific flavor of Christianity thinks is inserted by {man, devil, democrats, Catholics, Jews, the Illuminati, etc.} and instead go with knowledge commonly gained through pop culture like the Lucifer graphic novels or the television show Supernatural. But I guess asking Christians to have a theological grounding in what is (like it or not) a part of the history of their religion is asking way too much. I mean, I would love to be a member of an organization were I could get by without knowing a huge portion of the history of the precursor to their group. Its not like any Americans know we were actually colonies once, or English remember they had an Empire, or Italians know that the Romans lived on their land right?

Of course this is getting side tracked from the greater hilarity of him assuming that America and Israel are the heavenly places.

Old Protestant No True Scotsman fallacy? Lovely. The entire message reeks of the Christian Protestant fundamentalism, so why would the sender want to include Catholic/Orthodox take on angels in it (especially since some of the more hardcore ones don't even count Catholics as true Christians)? WHY he would want to take into account Catholics? The whole point of the Reformation was sola scriptura which, coincidentally, got rid of a lot of old teachings, including in many places the theories concerning angels and demons. But of course, since you deem it relevant, it surely must be so. The function of the angelic choirs has no bearing on many Protestant sects' theology whatsoever - it is not considered crucial knowledge or relevant to someone who doesn't study theology or ecclestial history more closely. But of course, that makes them stupid, doesn't it? I mean really, any American will of course know about the inner workings of the British government at the time of the revolution, what was the King's job, what was the Prime Minister's, Lord Chancellor's etc. To think otherwise would be folly, am I not correct?

The base truth is that whatever you think about the order of the choir of angels and its importance to Christianity, many don't share that point of view. To a lay person the knowledge about Jesus's life and death, how the early Christians lived, how the Catholic and Orthodox churches and later on Protestant churches got separated etc. are much more important than some relatively obscure information about choirs of angels. And when theologians grounded in Protestant theology write to audience they most likely WON'T think to themselves "I must really include the Catholics and their doctrines about celestial choir". It's NOT huge portion of the Christian history, whatever you may think. Huge portion of Christian history would be Jesus's life, the presence of the Roman empire in the early centuries of Christianity, the crusades - but NOT a catalogue of angelic duties which has no bearing on the promise of salvation whatsoever.