The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by tim31 »

Gil Hamilton wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Shoulda planned it a bit better. Get one of those old artillery shell rounds, so that Michael can't figure out the weight of that nuke. I mean, 1-2 kilotons will kill him just as well as 50 kt; I mean, it's not like he's going to be any appreciable distance from the cart.
Shame on you, Shep. What kind of nukeosexual are you if you don't recognize that if you can blow up an archangel with a 2kT warhead and a 50kT warhead, the 50kT is OBVIOUSLY the more awesome choice?
I was thinking the same thing. Someone inform admin that Shep's account has been hacked :evil:
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Darth Wong »

AWESOME!!! My character got to kick an archangel in the balls!

He's also the only still-living human who has entered Yahweh's domain and come back to talk about it, so I imagine he'll be getting a pretty thorough debriefing about what he saw, what the environment is like, etc.
Jamesfirecat wrote:Though how come he wasn't able to make a portal as close to himself as he was in El Paso? I'll just assume it has something to do with the wounds he picked up in Sandiego unless there's a better explanation out there.
Might have something to do with the fact that there's so much radar on him.
SCRawl wrote:That thought occurred to me as well. But I wonder if it really would take any more time to open a portal to, say, Washington? In any case, it implies to me that Petraeus was still opening himself up to tremendous risk by putting a nuke within Michael's reach. I probably would have done the same thing, but it was still carried the possibility of having it blow up in my face (pun intended).
I think perhaps people are forgetting the urgency of the situation (maybe the story hasn't mentioned it enough times for it to sink in). People are dying in large numbers as a result of all these different kinds of attacks, and Earth has been taking it on the chin pretty badly for some time now. The story tends to focus on Earth's attempts to strike back rather than doing as a Hollywood movie would do, and dwelling on the losses and emotions associated with those losses, so it's easy to lose track of that. Basically, anywhere in the world that there's severe weather (and there's usually severe weather somewhere), the enemy is making it worse and causing large-scale destruction and death. In countries whose infrastructure is not as well-built as ours, the effects of such attacks would be even worse. There is some real urgency, and so a certain amount of risk-taking is not out of line.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by GrayAnderson »

Man, that was a nice chapter. Bit of a shame we didn't get to see a square mile of city blown up on the other side.

And...after all that's gone on, Wong, your guy in there must have had one hell of an experience just getting to see Heaven. Considering how fabled it's been for so long...yeah.

That said, I expect there's going to be hell to pay for that fighter getting through.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Do american jets contain video equipment for recording what happens OUTSIDE the craft? We've just had our first live recon of heaven, however brief it may have been. Even ten seconds of footage or a single good picture of the city itself would be invaluable.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by MKSheppard »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Do american jets contain video equipment for recording what happens OUTSIDE the craft? We've just had our first live recon of heaven, however brief it may have been. Even ten seconds of footage or a single good picture of the city itself would be invaluable.
Um, it's called the gun camera. Remember, Wong had his fire control radar on and armed for the AIR-120 shots; so the camera was rolling when he shot Uriel, then went through the portal, then gunned down that angel, and came back.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

MKSheppard wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Do american jets contain video equipment for recording what happens OUTSIDE the craft? We've just had our first live recon of heaven, however brief it may have been. Even ten seconds of footage or a single good picture of the city itself would be invaluable.
Um, it's called the gun camera. Remember, Wong had his fire control radar on and armed for the AIR-120 shots; so the camera was rolling when he shot Uriel, then went through the portal, then gunned down that angel, and came back.
And would that camera have any useful images of the ground? Or does it only look straight in front at a limited range?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Simon_Jester »

MKSheppard wrote:
Jamesfirecat wrote:and we've got more than enough to make sure even a gigantic angel gets high.
Wow, I totally missed that point. Angels are probably a bit larger than humans even at the lower scale; and that means more drugs will be needed overall.
Moreover, we know they tend to recover from physical injuries quickly; if they have anything like the same level of resistance to disease or poisoning, their tolerances must be freaking insane on a pound-for-pound basis.
Gil Hamilton wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Shoulda planned it a bit better. Get one of those old artillery shell rounds, so that Michael can't figure out the weight of that nuke. I mean, 1-2 kilotons will kill him just as well as 50 kt; I mean, it's not like he's going to be any appreciable distance from the cart.
Shame on you, Shep. What kind of nukeosexual are you if you don't recognize that if you can blow up an archangel with a 2kT warhead and a 50kT warhead, the 50kT is OBVIOUSLY the more awesome choice?
Yes, but if you can blow up an archangel with a 2 kT warhead or blow up yourself with a 50 kT warhead... I'd go for the 2 kT warhead in this situation.

Of course, for all I know all the 2 kT artillery shell nukes have been long since decommissioned and none are in shape to be used...
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by MondoMage »

Jamesfirecat wrote:

Wow, I totally missed that point. Angels are probably a bit larger than humans even at the lower scale; and that means more drugs will be needed overall.
The real question is, how long until we get our selves a living angel or at least some fairly intact angel carcasses to play with?
I suppose that would depend on whether or not they take Uriel alive. I'm thinking alive would be all that much worse for Uriel - just think of all the things that scientists would be lining up to do to him to prove or disprove various theories regarding angel biology. Not to mention the hordes of people who'd like to get their hands on him because of his attacks. And then there are the lawyers - he'll wish he had gone to wherever it is dead angels wind up.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Why are B-1Cs using the "Spirit of..." names? Aren't those reserved for the B-2s?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by MKSheppard »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why are B-1Cs using the "Spirit of..." names? Aren't those reserved for the B-2s?
There are only 50 states my friend, and about 20 of them are taken up for B-2s. So we need to add Cities -- or we can just add more states :twisted:
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Academia Nut »

About the 50kT nuke, they probably made it that big in the hopes that it would not only take out Michael but anything important that might be nearby, like Yahweh.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by SCRawl »

Jamesfirecat wrote:Also in response to the question of if we just handed Micheal a 50KT warhead and the ability to have sent it anywhere, remember even he seems to need a Nephilliam in order to pick the location he portals down to earth. (Do angels need Nephs the way that Baldricks do? It certaintly makes more sense then them not needing them) Thus with him not knowing how much time was left on the bomb is he more likely to play "where in the world is Carmen Sandiego" and try to find an unprotected Neph nearby some big important human target, or is he going to go with the one whose location he knows by heart and send the cart right back where it came from ASAP?
Obviously, he wanted the nuke gone ASAP. As I already said, if he was really on his toes he could, I think, have sent it anywhere, though of course we're largely ignorant of the intricacies of portal physics. It's possible that setting up a portal right back to a recently opened location is slightly faster (for reasons other than just personal limitations). It's also possible that Michael-Lan didn't want to hit a bigger target; his actions against the humans so far have all been dictated to him by the big boss. If he wants to eventually come to some sort of understanding with the humans, that will be easier achieved if he isn't seen to be taking personal actions that kill thousands (or millions) of people.

The most reasonable explanation for why Michael-Lan sent the bomb back where it came from is simple: he was under duress, and it was likely the first (and therefore quickest) option that occurred to him. My point is that a man of General Petraeus' intelligence would have had to have considered the possibility of the nuke coming back in at a higher-value target.

With respect to your other point, I don't believe that Nephilim are required on the receiving end for the angels. Nothing indicates that they have this limitation. It's interesting that Michael-Lan once required a chorus to insert himself into Uriel's fight, but that seems to have been an issue of precision (or, perhaps, the countermeasures being used at the time). At other times they seem to be able to slip back and forth without anyone else nearby. Uriel, for example, was able to portal near LA without anyone else nearby.
Darth Wong wrote:I think perhaps people are forgetting the urgency of the situation (maybe the story hasn't mentioned it enough times for it to sink in). People are dying in large numbers as a result of all these different kinds of attacks, and Earth has been taking it on the chin pretty badly for some time now. The story tends to focus on Earth's attempts to strike back rather than doing as a Hollywood movie would do, and dwelling on the losses and emotions associated with those losses, so it's easy to lose track of that. Basically, anywhere in the world that there's severe weather (and there's usually severe weather somewhere), the enemy is making it worse and causing large-scale destruction and death. In countries whose infrastructure is not as well-built as ours, the effects of such attacks would be even worse. There is some real urgency, and so a certain amount of risk-taking is not out of line.
As I said, I would likely have taken the same risk. I might have set it up a little differently, but I still would have taken the same shot, since it was the best one to come along to date.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Darth Wong »

I also imagine that this operation was thrown together really quickly. If you really wanted to make a weapon designed to go through a portal and be certain that it detonates only in Heaven rather than any high-value Earth target, you'd probably set it up so that it scans for the kind of radio transmissions that you'd find near any large modern city. If it doesn't pick up any such transmissions, then it must not be anywhere near any modern urban centre, so it must have passed through the portal without being sent back here somehow, and it can go off.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Simon_Jester »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why are B-1Cs using the "Spirit of..." names? Aren't those reserved for the B-2s?
What B-2s?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by The Vortex Empire »

Silly, silly Michael-lan. You just gave us the way into Heaven. How does that make you feel? To know that we're going to make you dead?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Peptuck »

Aw, man, that was some serious winsauce, right there, Stuart.

So, now we can get into Heaven. :twisted: I totally vote that we need to codename the Heavenmouth or whatever it is "Babel."
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why are B-1Cs using the "Spirit of..." names? Aren't those reserved for the B-2s?
What B-2s?
But still, the B-1s don't have the Spirits' naming conventions - not before the B-2's introduction. So why did this change after the B-2s got hurricaned?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Ted C »

Darth Wong wrote:I also imagine that this operation was thrown together really quickly. If you really wanted to make a weapon designed to go through a portal and be certain that it detonates only in Heaven rather than any high-value Earth target, you'd probably set it up so that it scans for the kind of radio transmissions that you'd find near any large modern city. If it doesn't pick up any such transmissions, then it must not be anywhere near any modern urban centre, so it must have passed through the portal without being sent back here somehow, and it can go off.
I was thinking some kind of "dead man's switch" would be the best way to guarantee detonation. At first I was thinking that a radio transmission from the forward observers would have worked, but I don't think radio signals cross portals the way matter does, which leads to a similar problem with the "any common radio transmissions" as a switch. The bomb could presumably detonate while the portal is still open, and I'm not sure what effect that would have.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Darth Yan »

Victory might not be in thier grasp yet. If Belail figures out how to carry out the lava attack, bowls 5 and 6 will follow easily, and depending on how powerful the earthquake hailstone barrage in bowl 7 are, humanity better hurry it up, because the other 4 bowls, as well as the lamb beast and Dragon (who is stronger then all 3 put together), might give Yahweh total victory if they don't hurry it up.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Thirty Nine Up

Post by Asdeed »

Stuart wrote:Michael reached out with his mind and detected the familiar ground he used for his transits to and from Earth.
Are we absolutely certain this portal led to heaven directly? I hope so, otherwise there's gonna be some ticked off earthlings in the near future.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Darth Yan »

oh, and stop torturing us Stewart. It's annoying. :cry:

Edit: what does Uriel and Michael look like. In a book I had, Uriel was tall dude with flame red hair, and Michael had Long Blond Hair. Also, Uriel fought with a sword and bow, and Mikey fought with Sword and Chain. Any basis in truth in Salvationverse?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by erik_t »

Ted C wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I also imagine that this operation was thrown together really quickly. If you really wanted to make a weapon designed to go through a portal and be certain that it detonates only in Heaven rather than any high-value Earth target, you'd probably set it up so that it scans for the kind of radio transmissions that you'd find near any large modern city. If it doesn't pick up any such transmissions, then it must not be anywhere near any modern urban centre, so it must have passed through the portal without being sent back here somehow, and it can go off.
I was thinking some kind of "dead man's switch" would be the best way to guarantee detonation. At first I was thinking that a radio transmission from the forward observers would have worked, but I don't think radio signals cross portals the way matter does, which leads to a similar problem with the "any common radio transmissions" as a switch. The bomb could presumably detonate while the portal is still open, and I'm not sure what effect that would have.
As I recall from early in Armageddon, this will probably result in a massively enlarged portal. This might be a good thing, depending on your point of view.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by MKSheppard »

Honestly, the "he detects bomb by weight of cart" method is a bit stupid.

This is supposedly the great firesale event; so Michael Lan is going to expect to be lugging multiple tons of the stuff through the portal. So he shouldn't detect a weight discrepancy of a couple hundred pounds from the device itself.

I think a better Idea would be to have Michael's skin start itching from the low level radiation emitted by the plutonium in the warhead. We know Angels and Baldricks are intensely sensitive to any kind of radiation; and he's right next to a nuclear device....
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Grandmaster Jogurt »

Didn't Naypyidaw have tens of thousands of people in it during the initiation? Or was the city largely evacuated by that time due to the war and the dealings with Michael?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty Up

Post by Baughn »

Portals do pass electromagnetic radiation.

They're transparent; you can see through them, and there's no reason to think visible light is the exception here. However, since there's a potential energy barrier in the portals, any EM radiation that passes through should be redshifted slightly. This effect will probably not be noticable without special equipment.

--

An interesting (if a bit troubling) twist here would be if the soldiers vaporized by that nuke did not show up in hell. The mechanism behind the hell-cloning is not understood; having them fail to appear, or appear in bits and pieces, would demonstrate that it requires a certain minimum amount of time to operate.

Conversely, having them show up is (weak) evidence that there is a continuous backup process for the humans, as it weakens one of the other alternatives.
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