Competant Ancient Races

[Samuel]

In fact, killing off all intelligent life in the galaxy every few billion years is their version of WoW. Having to wait a few billion years for the "respawn" probably wouldn't be all that long for immortals.

Speed it up by seeding planets or just do the killing in VR.

[Stark]

Okay let's stop with the painful attempts to make ME's story not completely stupid and get back to the 'competent alien races' thing. I mean seriously, 'they could hit 8x time'? Yeah, now they're not stupid.

[mr friendly guy]

In Doctor Who, depending on the episode/writer, the Daleks can be both very ancient, and very competent. The Time Lords are always very ancient, but their competence is highly dependent on who's writing, and I am to understand they are inept more often than not.

Time Lords have been around for a very long time even existing into modern times (classic series) and being killed off screen by the time the new series starts. Certainly by modern times they were a mixed bunch. In their first appearance in War Games, they were potrayed as very competent except for a slight security breach, otherwise they curbstomped the unnamed alien race without batting an eyelid. Over time they weren't so competent, feeding into the meme that corruption and degeneration occurs with even advance civilisations.

Now old time lords (from novels, which are arguably lesser canon) were most likely highly competent, and ruthless. Having defeated an extra universal race of uber powerful vampire like creatures (actually this was mention in the series, the novels just went into more detail) they went on to wipe out various races which they felt would eventually threaten them. They did such a great job that little is known about these races, although some of their technological artefacts remain.

[Elessar]

How would you rank the ancients from the Freespace games, what little you know about them. They seem to have had a huge empire and only had a bad day when they encountered the Shivans. Even when they were just about gone they managed to discover a vulnerability.

For that matter, how do the Shivans themselves stack up?

I don't think enough is known about the Shivans to really get a good grasp of them. They seem more like a force of nature than anything else... apparently going around the universe exterminating advanced civilization to allow others to mature.

That said, they did their job with gusto and achieved substantial success despite character-shielded player characters... they didn't win completely, but I'd say they were pretty damn competent.
Spoiler

2 homeworlds destroyed (well, Earth was cut off entirely from the rest of the GTA) by their "scout" fleet and then when they really threw down the gauntlet, they basically destroyed the entire GTVA fleet and was ready to slaughter civilization until the heroes started blowing up their own means of interstellar transport.

[Stark]

In what sense are they a 'force of nature'? Such rhetorical flourishes are meaningless. They're just crazy guys with no real numbers. I hear the Lucifer was scout fleet now, which is why it had the invincibility shield the 'real' fleet doesn't? FAN SPECULATION FOR THE WIN. Their strategic deployments making not much sense is because they're competent, and not because they have unknown motives?

[Elessar]

In what sense are they a 'force of nature'? Such rhetorical flourishes are meaningless. They're just crazy guys with no real numbers. I hear the Lucifer was scout fleet now, which is why it had the invincibility shield the 'real' fleet doesn't? FAN SPECULATION FOR THE WIN. Their strategic deployments making not much sense is because they're competent, and not because they have unknown motives?

Uh, it was stated in a few of the secret missions of the first game that the Shivans were stamping out advanced civilizations so that others may flourish. The ancients speculated that they were just "there", but that was in-universe speculation. That's all I was referring to... so I wasn't purely going for poetry there Stark.

As for the whole scouting thing, I do point out the mass difference between the Lucifier and the hundreds of Sathanas battleships surrounding the star in one of the last cinematics of FS2. Not that 'scout fleet' is a keystone of my argument. Your sarcasm aside, I do remind you that I pointed out their results (of both games), which I'm using to back the assertion of competence.

[Connor MacLeod]

I've been wanting to comment on this thread but I can't really find much to say except.. isnt the "Ancient Race" concept omre of a brain bug? REally, it exists simply as a plot device of some kind (either to estalbihs some crucial or vital pieces of technology, to set up some evil master enemy type, etc) rather than being an actual "race/culture/government/empire".
Its kind of a sci fi adaptation of the fantasy Tolkienesque concept (first/second/third ages of ME, the Valar, etc.) You just replace really ancient and powerful magic and magic items with really advanced and ancient technology.

If so I would think to be competent it has to fit the stereotype as little or as loosely as possible. Or else, we simply get as little information as possible about them.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I've been wanting to comment on this thread but I can't really find much to say except.. isnt the "Ancient Race" concept omre of a brain bug? REally, it exists simply as a plot device of some kind (either to estalbihs some crucial or vital pieces of technology, to set up some evil master enemy type, etc) rather than being an actual "race/culture/government/empire".
Its kind of a sci fi adaptation of the fantasy Tolkienesque concept (first/second/third ages of ME, the Valar, etc.) You just replace really ancient and powerful magic and magic items with really advanced and ancient technology.

It is exactly that. Of course it goes back more than Tolkien. Atlantis and "giants" in many cultures are a real life mythological examples of basically the same concept. Although I wouldn't call it a "brain bug" as much as a good old (multi)cultural cliché.

[Stark]

Uh, it was stated in a few of the secret missions of the first game that the Shivans were stamping out advanced civilizations so that others may flourish. The ancients speculated that they were just "there", but that was in-universe speculation. That's all I was referring to... so I wasn't purely going for poetry there Stark.

Dialog is a useless source. The ancients were retards and were justifying their own destruction. The shivans are clearly just aliens with an agenda. Seriously, the World Bank lends to poor countries. FORCE OF NATURE.

As for the whole scouting thing, I do point out the mass difference between the Lucifier and the hundreds of Sathanas battleships surrounding the star in one of the last cinematics of FS2. Not that 'scout fleet' is a keystone of my argument. Your sarcasm aside, I do remind you that I pointed out their results (of both games), which I'm using to back the assertion of competence.

If you think this makes sense and fanboy stupid crap is acceptable, you're an idiot. The shivans beat up guys they either massively outclass or at best use their own weapons against them with massive numerical superiority. Amazing!

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'd propose the Lovecraftian Mi-Go/Fungi from Yuggoth. Have been around for hundreds of millions of years. Of all the ancient races that came to earth and duked it out, they're the only ones that survive and are active in number today, still use earth as a minor mining colony/outpost and keep a vast majority of humanity out of the know through a series of dupes and hypnosis. Though only claimed through dialogue, they're allegedly a very technologically advanced interstellar power and have been for millions of years.

[Ford Prefect]

Its kind of a sci fi adaptation of the fantasy Tolkienesque concept (first/second/third ages of ME, the Valar, etc.)

I wouldn't agree. When it comes to science fiction, I think it's far more reasonable to trace the notion of an ancient and unfathomably advanced or powerful race which has a profound effect on the younger races back to the Arisians, and Triplanetary was published years before The Hobbit. Unless we're talking Babylon 5, obviously.

[Mayabird]

Its kind of a sci fi adaptation of the fantasy Tolkienesque concept (first/second/third ages of ME, the Valar, etc.)

I wouldn't agree. When it comes to science fiction, I think it's far more reasonable to trace the notion of an ancient and unfathomably advanced or powerful race which has a profound effect on the younger races back to the Arisians, and Triplanetary was published years before The Hobbit. Unless we're talking Babylon 5, obviously.

I thought they were all adaptations from medieval times where, at least by the peasant viewpoint, they did have a super-advanced precursor civilization in their distant-remembered past that had collapsed, namely the Roman Empire. There were old Roman roads crisscrossing the land and massive aquaducts still with flowing water in them and ruins of massive villas all over the place and it was just damn unfathomable when you have a hard enough time just plowing and sowing your damn field every year.

Getting a history beatdown in 3, 2, 1...

[The Grim Squeaker]

I thought they were all adaptations from medieval times where, at least by the peasant viewpoint, they did have a super-advanced precursor civilization in their distant-remembered past that had collapsed, namely the Roman Empire. There were old Roman roads crisscrossing the land and massive aquaducts still with flowing water in them and ruins of massive villas all over the place and it was just damn unfathomable when you have a hard enough time just plowing and sowing your damn field every year.

Getting a history beatdown in 3, 2, 1...

Actually, as far as I know, that's quite true. There were various advancements of course, but mainly in the field of military endeavours, less so in terms of general civic infrastructure (roads, trade, aquaducts). It's often bought up as the source for the "ancient super civilizations of the past!!! Atlantis!!!!" brainbug.